India: Land of Opportunity...OR IS IT???
The Bumblebee
Join Date: Jul 1999
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Well,
I should have been more clear, I did convert my licence to Indian licenses in 1997, since then I have been coming back to India every year to keep my medical and my IR current.
As for expat flying right seat, I asked my friends yesterday and no Expat is flying right seat unless he/she is an TRI/TRE and they are training an Indian citizen who is training to be a captain or doing his route checks/loft training. As per Indian goverment regulations one of the pilots must be an Indian citizen.
As for the CRM, well, I have heard stories as well, but then its the cultural thing (not saying it is a good thing) that the junior pilot (250 or so hours) will not talk back to a Sr Captain. I will let you know of my experiences, but I am sure I am considered well experienced in India with 4600+ hours.
All the ex-pats in Air India are flying 777's. No expats in 744's. I am not sure what will happen once they start receiving 787's!!!
As for me, I intended to join as Sr. FO but I have to settle with FO until I get my Indian ATPL, as this is one of the requirments. But than again I was told in the interview that they are so short of qualifiied people that with 500 hours on type I will be eligible for an upgrade (not necessorily I will get one). The next set of ATP exams in India are in April and I am sitting in those exams (the pay difference is almost $2000 pm).
One of the bad things I have heard about aviation in India is rostering/scheduling. They seem to work only a day in advance. So you will know your schedule for next day a day before. Only Jet gives you a weeks schedule in advance. So if you are coming from USA, like me, you can forget about months schedule in advance. But I am sure with time this will change as well, as they can better utilize their crews with advance scheduling.
MSBatcha777,
You will have to convert your licence to indian licence. Pass either the conversion exam (one exam) or regular exam (three exams). You are exempted from technical exam. You will also be required to pass class I medical, a gft by day and night and IR skill test. You will also need ME rating, I suggest get in touch with DGCA and try to get an NOC to complete your ME course and skill test in Malaysia. There are only a few clubs that have ME airplane and examiner available and they will charge you an arm and a leg. (Orient in Pondicherry charges Rs 25,000 per hour for a Seneca III, thats approx US$550 per hour).
I should have been more clear, I did convert my licence to Indian licenses in 1997, since then I have been coming back to India every year to keep my medical and my IR current.
As for expat flying right seat, I asked my friends yesterday and no Expat is flying right seat unless he/she is an TRI/TRE and they are training an Indian citizen who is training to be a captain or doing his route checks/loft training. As per Indian goverment regulations one of the pilots must be an Indian citizen.
As for the CRM, well, I have heard stories as well, but then its the cultural thing (not saying it is a good thing) that the junior pilot (250 or so hours) will not talk back to a Sr Captain. I will let you know of my experiences, but I am sure I am considered well experienced in India with 4600+ hours.
All the ex-pats in Air India are flying 777's. No expats in 744's. I am not sure what will happen once they start receiving 787's!!!
As for me, I intended to join as Sr. FO but I have to settle with FO until I get my Indian ATPL, as this is one of the requirments. But than again I was told in the interview that they are so short of qualifiied people that with 500 hours on type I will be eligible for an upgrade (not necessorily I will get one). The next set of ATP exams in India are in April and I am sitting in those exams (the pay difference is almost $2000 pm).
One of the bad things I have heard about aviation in India is rostering/scheduling. They seem to work only a day in advance. So you will know your schedule for next day a day before. Only Jet gives you a weeks schedule in advance. So if you are coming from USA, like me, you can forget about months schedule in advance. But I am sure with time this will change as well, as they can better utilize their crews with advance scheduling.
MSBatcha777,
You will have to convert your licence to indian licence. Pass either the conversion exam (one exam) or regular exam (three exams). You are exempted from technical exam. You will also be required to pass class I medical, a gft by day and night and IR skill test. You will also need ME rating, I suggest get in touch with DGCA and try to get an NOC to complete your ME course and skill test in Malaysia. There are only a few clubs that have ME airplane and examiner available and they will charge you an arm and a leg. (Orient in Pondicherry charges Rs 25,000 per hour for a Seneca III, thats approx US$550 per hour).
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Mo
Hello Desipilot...... i already have 49hrs ME (Partinavia and Seneca IV)...... but i have only 80hrs PIC in total.
The Conversion exams can be taken any time or there is a schedule? DGCA isnot responding to my enquiries.....
I can't validate my licence? Instead of converting there in India?
The Conversion exams can be taken any time or there is a schedule? DGCA isnot responding to my enquiries.....
I can't validate my licence? Instead of converting there in India?
The Bumblebee
Join Date: Jul 1999
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You can find schedule at http://dgca.nic.in/sched_2006.pdf
You'd need at least 100 hours P1 for issue of license.
You'd need at least 100 hours P1 for issue of license.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Desi:
What is the difference between a Senior FO and a just an FO at Kingfisher?
Look for the private email I sent you a few minutes ago.
For all you guys out there on the forum, I will have to apologize for not being familiar with all the ins and outs of expat flying and the terminology that you folks use. I will very possibly have to learn the hard way, as the company I fly for has a precarious future, especially if the pilots and management don't sign a consensual agreement in the near future.
What is the difference between a Senior FO and a just an FO at Kingfisher?
Look for the private email I sent you a few minutes ago.
For all you guys out there on the forum, I will have to apologize for not being familiar with all the ins and outs of expat flying and the terminology that you folks use. I will very possibly have to learn the hard way, as the company I fly for has a precarious future, especially if the pilots and management don't sign a consensual agreement in the near future.
The Bumblebee
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Any one with a CPL IR can be an FO whilst to be a Sr. FO you must hold the ancient SCPL (doesnt exist anymore) or ATPL and 500 hours of airline experience. (The 500 hours vary from airline to airline).
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I have a few questions for you Desipilot,
Does kingfisher require you to pay for training?
What is the pay like? What was the interview like? would you have any info on benefits like medical, vacation sick leave etc??
thanks
Does kingfisher require you to pay for training?
What is the pay like? What was the interview like? would you have any info on benefits like medical, vacation sick leave etc??
thanks
The Bumblebee
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I am yet to discuss the benefits with the HR dept. Kingfisher is the only airline that do not charge for training but they do make you sign a five year contract/five post dated checks of Rs 400,000 each. At the end of each year with KF you get one check back, so if you stay with them for five you do not have to pay anything. Now, if you leave before five years, KF will cash the remaining checks.
Pay, for first four months while on training and until endorsment in your licence Rs 75000 pm (approx $1=Rs44), after that an FO makes Rs 112,000 pm and a Sr. FO makes Rs.196,000 pm. All these numbers are before taxes and for 70 hours of flying pm and doesnt include any per diem. Anything over 70 hours you get paid overtime.
Pay, for first four months while on training and until endorsment in your licence Rs 75000 pm (approx $1=Rs44), after that an FO makes Rs 112,000 pm and a Sr. FO makes Rs.196,000 pm. All these numbers are before taxes and for 70 hours of flying pm and doesnt include any per diem. Anything over 70 hours you get paid overtime.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Benefits? Standard "Indian" airline benefits.
Air-conditioned car pick-up and drop for flights. 5-star hotel accommodation when away from base.
Decent medical insurance for you and family (cashless hospital card etc), Accident Insurance, Loss of Life and Loss of Licence insurance.
Unlimited "subject-to-load" tickets anywhere on the KF network for the pilot, spouse, kids and parents (not siblings tho) by paying just the taxes which are presently just Rs.221 per sector per person.
Interline deals are being signed with many IATA international airlines as we speak. KLM and Air Arabia deals already in place for ID100 travel (just taxes to be paid).
15 "working days" Paid Leave per year (...about to change to "30 straight-days" per year), 7 days Casual Leave per year, 10 days Sick Leave per year.
"Deal" and Salary... as mentioned by Desi, except...
1. Overtime for F/Os presently paid at Rs.1400 per hour in excess of 70 hours per month and
2. F/O salary probably to increase from Rs.1,12,000 to ~Rs.1,46,000 in keeping with market standards.
These figures are for A320 pilots. ATR pilots salaries are presently being worked out. Should be ready soon. Heard they won't be much different from the 320 salaries
Don't be surprised if some of you find yourselves being recruited for the ATR, with a promised progression on to the 320 in a year or two. Don't worry, KF is good for their word and the deal will be honoured as opposed to some other airlines who did not in the past. It should be written in the agreement somewhere as well.
Actually, some low-time pilots might even benefit from going up via the ATR route and not consider themselves cheated or unlucky for not getting on to the 320 straight up (and thereby opt to join another airline offering them something else).
Why….?
Remember, there is a lot to learn to fly an aircraft the way it was supposed to be flown. Use the ATR as a stepping stone on to the KF 320s or your next big aircraft. The ATR only is a little cousin of the 320 (concepts are similar), so if you fly that well for maybe 1000-1500 hours over 2 years... you'll sail thru the 320 training, move along well up the KF ladder and then you're set... A330s (soon), A380s and A350s one day.
Make a good choice... and good luck!
Air-conditioned car pick-up and drop for flights. 5-star hotel accommodation when away from base.
Decent medical insurance for you and family (cashless hospital card etc), Accident Insurance, Loss of Life and Loss of Licence insurance.
Unlimited "subject-to-load" tickets anywhere on the KF network for the pilot, spouse, kids and parents (not siblings tho) by paying just the taxes which are presently just Rs.221 per sector per person.
Interline deals are being signed with many IATA international airlines as we speak. KLM and Air Arabia deals already in place for ID100 travel (just taxes to be paid).
15 "working days" Paid Leave per year (...about to change to "30 straight-days" per year), 7 days Casual Leave per year, 10 days Sick Leave per year.
"Deal" and Salary... as mentioned by Desi, except...
1. Overtime for F/Os presently paid at Rs.1400 per hour in excess of 70 hours per month and
2. F/O salary probably to increase from Rs.1,12,000 to ~Rs.1,46,000 in keeping with market standards.
These figures are for A320 pilots. ATR pilots salaries are presently being worked out. Should be ready soon. Heard they won't be much different from the 320 salaries
Don't be surprised if some of you find yourselves being recruited for the ATR, with a promised progression on to the 320 in a year or two. Don't worry, KF is good for their word and the deal will be honoured as opposed to some other airlines who did not in the past. It should be written in the agreement somewhere as well.
Actually, some low-time pilots might even benefit from going up via the ATR route and not consider themselves cheated or unlucky for not getting on to the 320 straight up (and thereby opt to join another airline offering them something else).
Why….?
Remember, there is a lot to learn to fly an aircraft the way it was supposed to be flown. Use the ATR as a stepping stone on to the KF 320s or your next big aircraft. The ATR only is a little cousin of the 320 (concepts are similar), so if you fly that well for maybe 1000-1500 hours over 2 years... you'll sail thru the 320 training, move along well up the KF ladder and then you're set... A330s (soon), A380s and A350s one day.
Make a good choice... and good luck!
Last edited by 9Ws; 29th Jan 2006 at 03:21.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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9W,
some more questions if you dont mind,
How many days off a month can one expect at Kingfisher? Also how many days prior does one know the schedule?
How is the CRm situation, I have heard horror stories about AI ,IA etc??
thanks
some more questions if you dont mind,
How many days off a month can one expect at Kingfisher? Also how many days prior does one know the schedule?
How is the CRm situation, I have heard horror stories about AI ,IA etc??
thanks
Join Date: Dec 2004
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All of you should understand that those days of rule at AI and IA are over. Those horror stories are now a thing of the past, and these are the days of CRM, younger and more polished (?) pilots (...at least relative to the old days 
)
Complaints against agressive/non-conforming pilots are dealt with seriously as no one wants such pilots in their airline. One such pilot got the boot 6 months ago and another is being closely watched. Even managers are getting younger and are of a younger generation. So interacting with them too is a lot easier.
KF's roster should settle down to a 6 day ON 1 day OFF pattern, but that's because things are pretty hectic with a start-up operation.... training-wise, increasing schedules and fast-arriving aircraft. Just can't help it, it happens everywhere especially when recruitment (local resources) doesn't keep up with expansion and/or failure rate of pilots sent for the type rating are high.
A 7-day roster is provided nowdays (at least they do a good job attempting to) about 2 days in advance. But that too is expected to improve once the computerised rostering system (software) is in place. With any luck it may settle down to a 5 ON 2 OFF (likely) or 4 ON 3 OFF (less likely) if these suggestions are accepted. But almost every airline in India follows the DGCA FDTL minimums which calls for a mandatory 7th day OFF... and therefore follow the 6 ON 1 OFF roster pattern so as to always have an available pilot.
)Complaints against agressive/non-conforming pilots are dealt with seriously as no one wants such pilots in their airline. One such pilot got the boot 6 months ago and another is being closely watched. Even managers are getting younger and are of a younger generation. So interacting with them too is a lot easier.
KF's roster should settle down to a 6 day ON 1 day OFF pattern, but that's because things are pretty hectic with a start-up operation.... training-wise, increasing schedules and fast-arriving aircraft. Just can't help it, it happens everywhere especially when recruitment (local resources) doesn't keep up with expansion and/or failure rate of pilots sent for the type rating are high.
A 7-day roster is provided nowdays (at least they do a good job attempting to) about 2 days in advance. But that too is expected to improve once the computerised rostering system (software) is in place. With any luck it may settle down to a 5 ON 2 OFF (likely) or 4 ON 3 OFF (less likely) if these suggestions are accepted. But almost every airline in India follows the DGCA FDTL minimums which calls for a mandatory 7th day OFF... and therefore follow the 6 ON 1 OFF roster pattern so as to always have an available pilot.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Living in india especially Bangalor
Hi folks just joined the site. I am a captain with a Caribbean airline flying A320 , got a possible job offer in India so i am curious about life in Bangalor .Your help ,info,and advise would be appreciated . THANKS P.D
