Air Asia 320 order?
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Air Asia 320 order?
Air Asia has ordered now 60 A320s with the option of 40 more. Anyone know when they start operating the A320? Are they training people internally or looking for allready Typed Pilots?
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Sheep
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Sheep
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Hi Sheep,
I heard they're starting sometime early 2006.
Of course they'll be training internally. Part of the tremendous growth AirAsia has managed to record was and is due to the dedication of the staff. AirAsia would still need these people who has grasped what a low lost carrier operates and how they contribute in it. And a significant number of the pilots for these A320s would come from their first 4 batch of cadets in MFA now. I think there's about 80 cadets now. I think they have around 100 co-pilots already in flying now.
If you're looking to apply, I don't see any harm in doing so. AirAsia currently operates 20 B733s in KUL and some 10 more in Thailand and Indonesia.
That's 30 733s. They ordered 60 Airbuses...
I heard they're starting sometime early 2006.
Of course they'll be training internally. Part of the tremendous growth AirAsia has managed to record was and is due to the dedication of the staff. AirAsia would still need these people who has grasped what a low lost carrier operates and how they contribute in it. And a significant number of the pilots for these A320s would come from their first 4 batch of cadets in MFA now. I think there's about 80 cadets now. I think they have around 100 co-pilots already in flying now.
If you're looking to apply, I don't see any harm in doing so. AirAsia currently operates 20 B733s in KUL and some 10 more in Thailand and Indonesia.
That's 30 733s. They ordered 60 Airbuses...
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I hear the first A320 is due for November '05 and Tony is pushing for earlier!!!
More B733s are needed, but the aircraft has become expensive as most low cost start-ups have chosen to operate this aircraft.
More B733s are needed, but the aircraft has become expensive as most low cost start-ups have chosen to operate this aircraft.
According to their website a Malaysian licence is required. Any change with a JAR or FAA ATPL?
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POOR
After ordering Airbuses there are there are loads of application here i SEE. I wonder why??? Heard that its a very bad deal over there in AA! Nil loyalty from the top down. Heard that Tony is changing his singing Tune after several senior pilots left or going to leave. Even his senior management team that help him build AA has left him. Must be a great guy?????????
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I don't normally do this but I usually talk bad and run down others in Pprune. Well, this time is gonna be different.
Maybe we shouldn't blame Uncle Tony so much... He's a musician and lack of knowledge in the aviation industry. I believe he is bold due to his young age but I give him 2 thumbs up as a businessman. He brought AA up quite well may it be so whether he is or is not the person behind the scene. Imagine, during the Hicom days AA only had 2 aircrafts and they were merely surviving BUT today is so much different and recognised worldwide.
Senior management and senior pilots who left or leaving may have a different story to tell but frankly, maybe they have their points too.
HEY AA SENIORS, PUT IN YOUR 5 CENTS HERE MAN
Maybe we shouldn't blame Uncle Tony so much... He's a musician and lack of knowledge in the aviation industry. I believe he is bold due to his young age but I give him 2 thumbs up as a businessman. He brought AA up quite well may it be so whether he is or is not the person behind the scene. Imagine, during the Hicom days AA only had 2 aircrafts and they were merely surviving BUT today is so much different and recognised worldwide.
Senior management and senior pilots who left or leaving may have a different story to tell but frankly, maybe they have their points too.
HEY AA SENIORS, PUT IN YOUR 5 CENTS HERE MAN
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not an excuse
being from the music industry he should know better..
you cant play a guitar with 3 strings, and gun's and roses wouldn't be gun's and roses with out slash, and you cant have a gig with out instruments, amps, musicians, and sound men.
well, at leasts he's not alone (mr T), he's still got Mr toad from MAS and bunch of guys from down south to chill with and discuss managing tactics (IOW, screwing pilots and their airlines)
IMHO, i think they should think about hiring GP (R) CAPT kokokokokokshove, and see their profits quadruplemeruple. and he'll call em the best airline in the WORLDDddd
you cant play a guitar with 3 strings, and gun's and roses wouldn't be gun's and roses with out slash, and you cant have a gig with out instruments, amps, musicians, and sound men.
well, at leasts he's not alone (mr T), he's still got Mr toad from MAS and bunch of guys from down south to chill with and discuss managing tactics (IOW, screwing pilots and their airlines)
IMHO, i think they should think about hiring GP (R) CAPT kokokokokokshove, and see their profits quadruplemeruple. and he'll call em the best airline in the WORLDDddd
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Your Right "Lanun"!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spot on Lanun - Mr T is one very good businessman and I will give him credit for that but if he was:-
1/ a pilot I'd probably ask him to wash the toilet or get out of my cockpit or hit him with an axe
2/ an animal - hit it with a wood because I would be so frighten of the hissing sound it makes.
3/ as a musician - throw rotten eggs at him and ask him to pay for all the drinks and food he had.
4/ as a man - shoot him for 'trying' to screw the pilots and cabin crew! bit of jealousy on the latter!
but as a businessman, one ringgit!
1/ a pilot I'd probably ask him to wash the toilet or get out of my cockpit or hit him with an axe
2/ an animal - hit it with a wood because I would be so frighten of the hissing sound it makes.
3/ as a musician - throw rotten eggs at him and ask him to pay for all the drinks and food he had.
4/ as a man - shoot him for 'trying' to screw the pilots and cabin crew! bit of jealousy on the latter!
but as a businessman, one ringgit!
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Ice Age,
You are a person of infinate wisdom.
Mr. F is all that you have stated and more. But guess what!! His type with their infinate ego's will enevitably destroy themselves.
Wooblah.
You are a person of infinate wisdom.
Mr. F is all that you have stated and more. But guess what!! His type with their infinate ego's will enevitably destroy themselves.
Wooblah.
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I stand behind Tony all the way!!!!
As a CEO he pays a lot more attention to staff than most CEOs.
What really pisses me off is that everyone is so quick to accept rumors as truth and criticism based on these flimsy stories.
Tony is the most approachable CEO Asia has. If you give constructive criticism he is not going to kick you out the door. Stop the bickering and lets step up to address these problems.
AirAsia is growing at an incredible rate, of course thing are not going swimmingly. This is all a learning process!!!!
As a CEO he pays a lot more attention to staff than most CEOs.
What really pisses me off is that everyone is so quick to accept rumors as truth and criticism based on these flimsy stories.
Tony is the most approachable CEO Asia has. If you give constructive criticism he is not going to kick you out the door. Stop the bickering and lets step up to address these problems.
AirAsia is growing at an incredible rate, of course thing are not going swimmingly. This is all a learning process!!!!
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Hey touch & oops, do you love tony or what. why stand behind him when you guys could stand infront of him and bend over.
Ice Age seems to have been in the airasia system much longer than you guys. I would bet he felt the same way as you guys once but after listening to the lies over and over again he has seen the light.
dandie just talks about how great he is and how you guys could not get jobs anywhere until he arrived. (He's doing you a favour)
As a business man ice is right and I agree. But as to the other points ice makes well I totally agree as well.
Well said Ice Age.
Ice Age seems to have been in the airasia system much longer than you guys. I would bet he felt the same way as you guys once but after listening to the lies over and over again he has seen the light.
dandie just talks about how great he is and how you guys could not get jobs anywhere until he arrived. (He's doing you a favour)
As a business man ice is right and I agree. But as to the other points ice makes well I totally agree as well.
Well said Ice Age.
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Whooblah, you talk ****e and always will talk ****e!!!
It must be insufferable sharing a flight deck with you!!! Just to think of the constant verbal diarrhoea you spew... the smell in flight deck must be horrible after you have completed a day's work!!!
How can you comment on working conditions or people at AirAsia when you don't work there or with any of the staff???
For the sake of AirAsia and its employees I hope you never step through the door!!! There is never a need for a sad sod like you...
Hint: Actually post a educated reply or at least constructive!!!
It must be insufferable sharing a flight deck with you!!! Just to think of the constant verbal diarrhoea you spew... the smell in flight deck must be horrible after you have completed a day's work!!!
How can you comment on working conditions or people at AirAsia when you don't work there or with any of the staff???
For the sake of AirAsia and its employees I hope you never step through the door!!! There is never a need for a sad sod like you...
Hint: Actually post a educated reply or at least constructive!!!
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Wooblah,
I love u man....do continue your write ups.
Would love to fly with you one day... you talk ****e??ermmm...ermmmm...some people are emotional,bet you have seen it all all these years.
Your resources must be really good,you seem to know even the the facts as thin as dust!!!!
Heard you guys got a new management team and new pay as well?NeW pay for LCC??Sounds good ah...any comments wooblah?
T n Opps...guess you must be happy with the new pay boy.
I love u man....do continue your write ups.
Would love to fly with you one day... you talk ****e??ermmm...ermmmm...some people are emotional,bet you have seen it all all these years.
Your resources must be really good,you seem to know even the the facts as thin as dust!!!!
Heard you guys got a new management team and new pay as well?NeW pay for LCC??Sounds good ah...any comments wooblah?
T n Opps...guess you must be happy with the new pay boy.
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CAPTAIN WOOBLAH is most probably an ex employee and if not, is someone who has direct information from inside. And it's correct. His views are his personal opinion and he likes to sh1t stir. Up to him and you can't change that. After all, lots of it is it true. No point getting worked up over it. Put your own points forward as what you did Touch'n'oops. Your points are true and valid too. This is PPRUNE and we know how it gets on here.
Air Asia has grown super fast and along with it has gone through the growing pains. Mistakes have been made and there have also been gains. Too many things to discuss on one thread. Lets just look to the future and see how the new management clean up loose ends. New pay scale has been a welcome and overdue relief. Good for the Captains, marginal for the F/O's. But with supply and demand, there will always be F/O's to employ cheaper. Sad fact.
Someone will either strongly love Air Asia, strongly hate Air Asia, or have a balanced view. You can't change those types of posts that you'll see here. Getting back to the A320 thread, yes, it'll will bring Air Asia in to it's future growth as the leading low cost carrier in Asia. As a business, it will carry on and do well as the market is always there. As for the conditions to work there, it's up to the people there. I understand when some say they are sick of the Boss's argument of "you all wouldn't have a job if is wasn't for Air Asia" Fine, True I say. However There is also give and take. People got jobs and people also worked Fing hard through the years ok. And they deserve their worth. Lets hope conditions continue to improve step by step. Right now it's better than it used to be. Air Asia will always be a low cost carrier. If Crew want life like it is in the major airlines, they will have to leave. For those in the low cost carrier life. Lets make it a comfortable rewarding one also in it's own right. I'm sure the management know by now perhaps the hard way that it's important to make their people happy or content too. Not there yet, but I personally think it's heading in the right direction. How long, I do not know. For example perhaps to improve the existing pi55 poor reliability, we'll have to wait for the new more reliable aircraft to arrive.
I may be elsewhere already when those days come, but good luck to all.
Air Asia has grown super fast and along with it has gone through the growing pains. Mistakes have been made and there have also been gains. Too many things to discuss on one thread. Lets just look to the future and see how the new management clean up loose ends. New pay scale has been a welcome and overdue relief. Good for the Captains, marginal for the F/O's. But with supply and demand, there will always be F/O's to employ cheaper. Sad fact.
Someone will either strongly love Air Asia, strongly hate Air Asia, or have a balanced view. You can't change those types of posts that you'll see here. Getting back to the A320 thread, yes, it'll will bring Air Asia in to it's future growth as the leading low cost carrier in Asia. As a business, it will carry on and do well as the market is always there. As for the conditions to work there, it's up to the people there. I understand when some say they are sick of the Boss's argument of "you all wouldn't have a job if is wasn't for Air Asia" Fine, True I say. However There is also give and take. People got jobs and people also worked F
ing hard through the years ok. And they deserve their worth. Lets hope conditions continue to improve step by step. Right now it's better than it used to be. Air Asia will always be a low cost carrier. If Crew want life like it is in the major airlines, they will have to leave. For those in the low cost carrier life. Lets make it a comfortable rewarding one also in it's own right. I'm sure the management know by now perhaps the hard way that it's important to make their people happy or content too. Not there yet, but I personally think it's heading in the right direction. How long, I do not know. For example perhaps to improve the existing pi55 poor reliability, we'll have to wait for the new more reliable aircraft to arrive. I may be elsewhere already when those days come, but good luck to all.
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Touch & oops,
I seem to have hit a raw nerve there. I would venture that you are a new expat new to his LCC command and think the sun shines out of dandies A$$, well thats the way it is in the begining. As the years go by and you keep hearing the same bull then, well, perhaps you will be sceptical or at least have most probably moved on to an airline as distinct from an LCC. As for the flight deck we like it all stinkey and smelly just like reality.
1013,
Great post, I reckon you are new management and I guess the new RM 12,000 basic and RM 50.00 sector allowance has given all you airasia captains some well deserved financial relief. I am really happy for all of you as I know you all work hard for your wages but, I do think you have sold yourselves short by industry standards. But, it is a start and at least chunder more hands did confront dandie and get this through for all of you.
Again, the reason for your pay rise is because dandie is bloody scared that he will not have sufficient captains to man the already stunted expansion plans to increase margins and cashflow as he has promised his share holders. China in a mess, Thailand just about paying for its self and Indonesia being clouted on all fronts. Thus for 40 A320's @ 5 sets = 200 captains required. TRE/TRI + SIM + Annual leave requirements take it closer to 220 captains. Now where did dandie think he would get these guys, from Europe!!!!! And, how much do you think a ryan air or an easy captain makes in a month!!! I am not implying that airasia pay these rates but I am suggesting that to attract guys with commitments (Most captains have these) from europe or the states would require a pay figure similar to these LCC's just to survive. Having computed the required crews for the A320 and knowing that the 737 will still be around and in consideration of the near bloody panic your management is in with regard to crews, I think you missed a golden oppertunity and sold yourselves short of your real worth to airasia as a public listed company with real shareholder expectations that have yet to be realised.
I also totally disagree with you on the worth of the first officers in airasia and I think it is a disgrace that you demean them in so saying But with supply and demand, there will always be F/O's to employ cheaper. Sad fact These guys are your future and should be treated like your children. Nurtured and educated to the highest level so that the are better operators than the previous generation and so that the knowledge base and experience remain within the company and the system grows from strength to strength. (At least thats how it is in my horrible stinkey diarrhoea filled cockpit) Why didn't you captains fight for your Fo's??? what sort of team spirit do you have in your cockpits??? or is it your airfartness that puts you so far above them because you are 4 bar captains and they are nothing!!!!! These guys have families and bills to pay as well!!!!!!!
You talk of the piss poor reliability of your 737-300's. Man stop blaming your tools the airbus will not improve this. I make this statement because ryan air have one of the best reliability ratios in the business and they still have the old 200's in service. and before the NG's came in they still had great reliability. Its not the machine it is the people.
Lastly, look at ryan air and the problems the pilots there are in. You have the benefit of hind sight and could learn a lot from them. I bet the same crap happened over there and it took this long for it to boil over. You guys did not even bother to check their situation out and apply it to yourselves. Your arrogance seems to equal that of dandie.
Glad I am retiring soon, what has happened to this once noble and respected profession. Old fart I may be full of blah blah blah but I have never sold out or kissed ass.
I seem to have hit a raw nerve there. I would venture that you are a new expat new to his LCC command and think the sun shines out of dandies A$$, well thats the way it is in the begining. As the years go by and you keep hearing the same bull then, well, perhaps you will be sceptical or at least have most probably moved on to an airline as distinct from an LCC. As for the flight deck we like it all stinkey and smelly just like reality.
1013,
Great post, I reckon you are new management and I guess the new RM 12,000 basic and RM 50.00 sector allowance has given all you airasia captains some well deserved financial relief. I am really happy for all of you as I know you all work hard for your wages but, I do think you have sold yourselves short by industry standards. But, it is a start and at least chunder more hands did confront dandie and get this through for all of you.
Again, the reason for your pay rise is because dandie is bloody scared that he will not have sufficient captains to man the already stunted expansion plans to increase margins and cashflow as he has promised his share holders. China in a mess, Thailand just about paying for its self and Indonesia being clouted on all fronts. Thus for 40 A320's @ 5 sets = 200 captains required. TRE/TRI + SIM + Annual leave requirements take it closer to 220 captains. Now where did dandie think he would get these guys, from Europe!!!!! And, how much do you think a ryan air or an easy captain makes in a month!!! I am not implying that airasia pay these rates but I am suggesting that to attract guys with commitments (Most captains have these) from europe or the states would require a pay figure similar to these LCC's just to survive. Having computed the required crews for the A320 and knowing that the 737 will still be around and in consideration of the near bloody panic your management is in with regard to crews, I think you missed a golden oppertunity and sold yourselves short of your real worth to airasia as a public listed company with real shareholder expectations that have yet to be realised.
I also totally disagree with you on the worth of the first officers in airasia and I think it is a disgrace that you demean them in so saying But with supply and demand, there will always be F/O's to employ cheaper. Sad fact These guys are your future and should be treated like your children. Nurtured and educated to the highest level so that the are better operators than the previous generation and so that the knowledge base and experience remain within the company and the system grows from strength to strength. (At least thats how it is in my horrible stinkey diarrhoea filled cockpit) Why didn't you captains fight for your Fo's??? what sort of team spirit do you have in your cockpits??? or is it your airfartness that puts you so far above them because you are 4 bar captains and they are nothing!!!!! These guys have families and bills to pay as well!!!!!!!
You talk of the piss poor reliability of your 737-300's. Man stop blaming your tools the airbus will not improve this. I make this statement because ryan air have one of the best reliability ratios in the business and they still have the old 200's in service. and before the NG's came in they still had great reliability. Its not the machine it is the people.
Lastly, look at ryan air and the problems the pilots there are in. You have the benefit of hind sight and could learn a lot from them. I bet the same crap happened over there and it took this long for it to boil over. You guys did not even bother to check their situation out and apply it to yourselves. Your arrogance seems to equal that of dandie.
Glad I am retiring soon, what has happened to this once noble and respected profession. Old fart I may be full of blah blah blah but I have never sold out or kissed ass.
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WOOBLAH, I am certainly not management. I have never been in the air force or Transmile! Jokes aside, while I have always respected your posts and fact finding do not make TOO many assumptions my friend. You do not know me. (Actually perhaps our paths have crossed sometime) F/O's are plenty here, and I never ever said I agreed with what they are paid. All I said is I think management have taken advantage of the fact that F/Os are easier to get and hold. You yourself talked about what this noble profession has come to. I don't agree with being exploited and Hell yes we did fight for F/O's. We put in our ideas and comments. But as we saw in the meetings, the F/O new pay package decided is overall a disappointment. My command is recent and I have done my many year hard labor as F/O right here in Air Asia. I have told the junior F/O's to leave when they have a chance. I would if I were them. For the seniors, just wait a little while more and take the command. Then go when the time comes. As for me, I am biding my time and don't plan to be here for the long term. As I said, I have done my time here. I worked hard on low pay from day one and only began to see a decent basic salary within the last year. Fortunately I have new pay scale jump. I could even mention another issue where a many years served senior F/O would get promoted and get the same basic salary as a new Captain that walked in yesterday. Surely there should be some distinction in pay to take in to account years of loyalty? Don't think that the fight is over here. Management has forgotten what it's like to be an F/O. Ultimately what can the line pilot do? You know there is no such thing as a union here. Forget the 'association' too. Vote with their feet or try to reason with the boss for better.
Agreed the 737 is not the main problem. But Ryan do have spare aircraft to cover an aircraft which is down where as Air Asia does not. I'm sure Ryan have their 737-200's in tip top condition but if one were to be down, they would have a spare ready. Logistics wise, Ryan is miles ahead. They have had the years to mature for it. Yes, also the people need to work together hand in hand to get the schedule on time but the problem of aircraft AOG is also a big factor to delays and the famous 're-timed' flights. I can’t bring out every detail in these posts so if I didn't mention it doesn't mean I am blind to it. I think you write better to explain the rest anyway. I do think the Airbus will be more reliable and reduce AOG though and that was just a small example I brought up for when times may change for AK's reliability.
Anyway I am not paid to find the magic answers or do the studies to what we can copy to better Air Asia. I do the best I can with what we are given. With your vast experience perhaps you could share some ideas for improvement? Surely you will also find fault with this post or highlight things I have missed and I agree there is so much we could talk about. Anyway, pay is not everything, the whole operation has to and will improve for the future. Hope so anyway. Cheers and happy flying before you retire.
Agreed the 737 is not the main problem. But Ryan do have spare aircraft to cover an aircraft which is down where as Air Asia does not. I'm sure Ryan have their 737-200's in tip top condition but if one were to be down, they would have a spare ready. Logistics wise, Ryan is miles ahead. They have had the years to mature for it. Yes, also the people need to work together hand in hand to get the schedule on time but the problem of aircraft AOG is also a big factor to delays and the famous 're-timed' flights. I can’t bring out every detail in these posts so if I didn't mention it doesn't mean I am blind to it. I think you write better to explain the rest anyway. I do think the Airbus will be more reliable and reduce AOG though and that was just a small example I brought up for when times may change for AK's reliability.
Anyway I am not paid to find the magic answers or do the studies to what we can copy to better Air Asia. I do the best I can with what we are given. With your vast experience perhaps you could share some ideas for improvement? Surely you will also find fault with this post or highlight things I have missed and I agree there is so much we could talk about. Anyway, pay is not everything, the whole operation has to and will improve for the future. Hope so anyway. Cheers and happy flying before you retire.
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Brilliant!
Well said QNH1013! Also to Capt. Wooblah & Touch & Oops. Its our own views! Pilots has and do work hard and AA pilots a lot harder. We pilots have to stick together and not let people like Dandie Fernadi get the better of us.
I for one would like better conditions for pilots no matter where they are working. I hate when people take advantage of others and make life miserable for them. If I ever hear that saying "you are lucky you have a job" or "Never forget where you came from" from these low life Chini chin and dandie I'm going to freak out.
Anyway thats my opinion, cheers guys. Lets have some drinks ssomeday.
I for one would like better conditions for pilots no matter where they are working. I hate when people take advantage of others and make life miserable for them. If I ever hear that saying "you are lucky you have a job" or "Never forget where you came from" from these low life Chini chin and dandie I'm going to freak out.
Anyway thats my opinion, cheers guys. Lets have some drinks ssomeday.
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Topic: AirAsia Poison Letter
As an aspiring applicant & a local it is sad that AA despite the rapid expansion has not hired FO's for the past 8 months.they are getting rated crew (expats) nothing personally against that but there should be equal emphysis on taking adquetly qualified locals as we are init for the longrun.Could someone kindly shed some light on the next intake for AA,would very much appreciate that.Cheers....