Singapore Airlines: The people behind it.
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Once an Admirer now maybe not
Once an admirer of SQ and its pilots but after talks with friends who has join there and comparing pay that admiration is fading fast. Pilots all around the world should not be afraid of the big airlines its the LCC that will make us bus drivers than one day disappear. I know I'm in one. Pilots should come together once again and talk with one voice and bring that admiration from billions of people back.
The businessmen which see and learn our weakness are the once you should be very worrid about! Trust me I know. Pilots made one rich very fast and it ain't getting better guys!!!!!!
The businessmen which see and learn our weakness are the once you should be very worrid about! Trust me I know. Pilots made one rich very fast and it ain't getting better guys!!!!!!
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At present, A Pilot's profession still commands the respect of the general society. People will acknowledge you as a Professional and one who earns big bucks.
However, this could be due to information asymmetry that existed in view that not many people have experienced what Pilots exactly do in the cockpit. There are still many people who believe that Pilots fly their aircrafts manually from point A to point B. Before 911, there were opportunities to visit the cockpit. Some returned unimpressed after realizing that "they don't do much work, just sit and monitor the dials".
I know there are many in these forums that are passionate about flying. It's assuring to know that the person who is taking you to your next destination is an enthusiast rather than someone who rather be somewhere else. The passion for flying is admirable, but irrelevant in the context of a competitive industry that has no mercy on loyalty and faith. The defiant cries we hear here signal, how, many Pilots will want to continue believing that their job is a premium position which in no way fit into the "menial, routine" mould. I see their point, but if only they take a few steps back and see with unbiased eyes, they may have a different opinion then.
The challenge and the real threat facing the Pilot profession is the increase in transparency and sharing of information among the general public. This has lead to a complete demystifying of the profession. Once the dust settles down, what's left, I ask...?
The truth. And the truth hurts. Just like how it has hurt a few people who booed me when I voiced my earlier opinions. It must a sore ego protesting.
However, this could be due to information asymmetry that existed in view that not many people have experienced what Pilots exactly do in the cockpit. There are still many people who believe that Pilots fly their aircrafts manually from point A to point B. Before 911, there were opportunities to visit the cockpit. Some returned unimpressed after realizing that "they don't do much work, just sit and monitor the dials".
I know there are many in these forums that are passionate about flying. It's assuring to know that the person who is taking you to your next destination is an enthusiast rather than someone who rather be somewhere else. The passion for flying is admirable, but irrelevant in the context of a competitive industry that has no mercy on loyalty and faith. The defiant cries we hear here signal, how, many Pilots will want to continue believing that their job is a premium position which in no way fit into the "menial, routine" mould. I see their point, but if only they take a few steps back and see with unbiased eyes, they may have a different opinion then.
The challenge and the real threat facing the Pilot profession is the increase in transparency and sharing of information among the general public. This has lead to a complete demystifying of the profession. Once the dust settles down, what's left, I ask...?
The truth. And the truth hurts. Just like how it has hurt a few people who booed me when I voiced my earlier opinions. It must a sore ego protesting.
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Robbie_collins,
You do have a very good point there. However, I personally think that people will still regard the job with glory. Pilots still travel and get to spend a couple of days in another country on the other side of the world. Many, but not all, stay in four-star hotels, which to many is a luxury they can't afford. The vast majority of people work in the same city they live in even professionals, but not pilots. And even though pilots’ salaries are dwindling, it is still far better than others. Here in Britain the average salary of a retiring pilot is twice that of a retiring engineer according to a careers website.
In addition, it is true that the role of pilots today is to monitor than fly, but that is the same as saying that the chairman/CEO does nothing but sign papers and attend business dinners. Both comments are true but they don't portray the complete picture do they?
Anyway, we really should all regard others with respect whether they fly planes, manage a multibillion-dollar corporation or clean the toilets we use.
cheer
guybrush
You do have a very good point there. However, I personally think that people will still regard the job with glory. Pilots still travel and get to spend a couple of days in another country on the other side of the world. Many, but not all, stay in four-star hotels, which to many is a luxury they can't afford. The vast majority of people work in the same city they live in even professionals, but not pilots. And even though pilots’ salaries are dwindling, it is still far better than others. Here in Britain the average salary of a retiring pilot is twice that of a retiring engineer according to a careers website.
In addition, it is true that the role of pilots today is to monitor than fly, but that is the same as saying that the chairman/CEO does nothing but sign papers and attend business dinners. Both comments are true but they don't portray the complete picture do they?
Anyway, we really should all regard others with respect whether they fly planes, manage a multibillion-dollar corporation or clean the toilets we use.
cheer
guybrush
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Mr Collins might have a point about the fact that our jobs are more transparent these days, and this transparency makes today’s pilot look like a system operator who’s got very little to do due to the increasing level of automation. That is the impression. However, today’s pilot flying a large passenger airplane is actually a manager of a fast moving liability.
It is perhaps only once in a career of an airline pilot that he or she has to make the split second decision that can be the difference between an incident report with a few phone calls to the office, or the loss of life and a multi billion dollar insurance payout.
And these “timely” decisions are made by one person only without the luxury of sitting back and thinking it over together with a board of advisors and secretaries.
In this harsh money world with these enormous insurance liabilities this responsibility is perhaps one of the reasons why the pilots salary is still considered to be higher.
The reality is that we want the pilots to be bored with very little to do, and use their vast flying experience avoiding situations that require the use of it (not original).
It is perhaps only once in a career of an airline pilot that he or she has to make the split second decision that can be the difference between an incident report with a few phone calls to the office, or the loss of life and a multi billion dollar insurance payout.
And these “timely” decisions are made by one person only without the luxury of sitting back and thinking it over together with a board of advisors and secretaries.
In this harsh money world with these enormous insurance liabilities this responsibility is perhaps one of the reasons why the pilots salary is still considered to be higher.
The reality is that we want the pilots to be bored with very little to do, and use their vast flying experience avoiding situations that require the use of it (not original).
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Hello Mr.Robie,
Sorry to say this, but in my my opinion, to just sit and monitor the dials rather than flying a plane from point A to point B is actually something rather impressive, not to all but to certain individulas like me.well its merely because of the technolgy behind it.Someone who doesnt understand might think that the pilots are just sitting there not doing much work..I personally feel that the level of professionalism among pilots increases together with the technology.Yes, i do agree with you that technology mainly automation reduces the need of extra man power...but it does not seem to really apply for pilots...
"when road vehicles become driverless, then pilots can start their worrying about pilotless aircrafts"
Sorry to say this, but in my my opinion, to just sit and monitor the dials rather than flying a plane from point A to point B is actually something rather impressive, not to all but to certain individulas like me.well its merely because of the technolgy behind it.Someone who doesnt understand might think that the pilots are just sitting there not doing much work..I personally feel that the level of professionalism among pilots increases together with the technology.Yes, i do agree with you that technology mainly automation reduces the need of extra man power...but it does not seem to really apply for pilots...
"when road vehicles become driverless, then pilots can start their worrying about pilotless aircrafts"
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Well guybrush I would have to disagree with you, I don't think Robbie_Collins has made any point at all, in any of his posts.
Robbie_Collins is hell bent on trying to belittle the profession of pilot as much as he can but is working from a knowledge base of zero, as he so amply demonstrates each time he posts to this thread.
Robbie_Collins states:
"The challenge and the real threat facing the Pilot profession is the increase in transparency and sharing of information among the general public. This has lead to a complete demystifying of the profession. Once the dust settles down, what's left, I ask...?"
A more profoundly stupid statement it would be hard to find, even assuming it contained a grain of truth.
I still think that Mr Collins is a Troll, determined to wind us up but as he repeats word for word some of Mr Lee Kuan Yew's mutterings one has to ask oneself if he isn't employed by the R of S?
If you are going to persist in pouring forth your dissertations here, on a professional Pilots bulletin board, Mr Collins, perhaps you would be kind enough to extend to us the common courtesy of researching your subject first ?
Robbie_Collins is hell bent on trying to belittle the profession of pilot as much as he can but is working from a knowledge base of zero, as he so amply demonstrates each time he posts to this thread.
Robbie_Collins states:
"The challenge and the real threat facing the Pilot profession is the increase in transparency and sharing of information among the general public. This has lead to a complete demystifying of the profession. Once the dust settles down, what's left, I ask...?"
A more profoundly stupid statement it would be hard to find, even assuming it contained a grain of truth.
I still think that Mr Collins is a Troll, determined to wind us up but as he repeats word for word some of Mr Lee Kuan Yew's mutterings one has to ask oneself if he isn't employed by the R of S?
If you are going to persist in pouring forth your dissertations here, on a professional Pilots bulletin board, Mr Collins, perhaps you would be kind enough to extend to us the common courtesy of researching your subject first ?
Last edited by Omark44; 12th Apr 2005 at 05:15.
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Well Omark44, if you have a chip on your shoulder with LKY name on it, why associate him with me? Since you are so hell bent yourself on asserting your point, then push the envelope a lil bit more will you, by just assuming further that i am him. It comes nothing less to me than a compliment.
Omark44 can call me names, can label my comments stupid. But don't just catcall, substantiate. I haven't seen a thread of it yet in your posts, have I? And i'm glad that diverse opinions are coming in.. so what are you going to do about it? rally them with a baton? gee, i'd rather you convince them. Surely, i am doing a better job at that than you.
Omark44 can call me names, can label my comments stupid. But don't just catcall, substantiate. I haven't seen a thread of it yet in your posts, have I? And i'm glad that diverse opinions are coming in.. so what are you going to do about it? rally them with a baton? gee, i'd rather you convince them. Surely, i am doing a better job at that than you.
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Once the dust settles down, what's left, I ask...?"
At least we have great stories to tell after all...
This guy is totally out of the loop, how bad must be always want to be a Pilot, sorry for you Robbin or whatever.
At least we have great stories to tell after all...
This guy is totally out of the loop, how bad must be always want to be a Pilot, sorry for you Robbin or whatever.
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Perhaps zekeigo,
So,zekeigo , you have taken the responsible step to confirm on behalf of your peers that, under the Uniform and the facade, there's really no grey matter inside to discuss rationally other than making sharp comments. You have done nothing but shame some of the other Pilots who spoke well in this thread. I will not be surprised if you came from SIA.
BTW, those childish comments you make, is that representative of the people in your profession? i seriously hope not, for the glorified great stories u are bragging about may only interest little children.
So,zekeigo , you have taken the responsible step to confirm on behalf of your peers that, under the Uniform and the facade, there's really no grey matter inside to discuss rationally other than making sharp comments. You have done nothing but shame some of the other Pilots who spoke well in this thread. I will not be surprised if you came from SIA.
BTW, those childish comments you make, is that representative of the people in your profession? i seriously hope not, for the glorified great stories u are bragging about may only interest little children.
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Guys clam down! Let's not start a fight here and show some respect shall we?
Anyway, with all due respect Robbie_collins, transparency isn't a problem. All jobs are transparent. And as Herman and Farside out it, there is still a lot of professionalism required (well at least for those who want to live anyway
!).
Someone here stated, "When road vehicles become driverless, then pilots can start their worrying about pilotless aircrafts." In that case: BE AFRAID... BE VERY AFRAID. You see, the other day, I saw a program discussing a project where scientists/engineers are working to replace human drivers with technology. I think it's US army that was doing that, but I am not sure.
Ye I still think it's quite pathetic and inhumane. Many people in developing countries (and to a certain degree in developed ones as well) rely on jobs as drivers to keep bread on the table. And I really wouldn't like to be talking to a computer every time I hale a cab (to me it's the same as talking to a wall!). Anyway, I really don't think the technology is that threatening to our drivers until it is actually proven and considered to be added to cars (taxis).
What was the main topic anyway…I forgot!
Cheers
guybrush
Anyway, with all due respect Robbie_collins, transparency isn't a problem. All jobs are transparent. And as Herman and Farside out it, there is still a lot of professionalism required (well at least for those who want to live anyway
!).Someone here stated, "When road vehicles become driverless, then pilots can start their worrying about pilotless aircrafts." In that case: BE AFRAID... BE VERY AFRAID. You see, the other day, I saw a program discussing a project where scientists/engineers are working to replace human drivers with technology. I think it's US army that was doing that, but I am not sure.
Ye I still think it's quite pathetic and inhumane. Many people in developing countries (and to a certain degree in developed ones as well) rely on jobs as drivers to keep bread on the table. And I really wouldn't like to be talking to a computer every time I hale a cab (to me it's the same as talking to a wall!). Anyway, I really don't think the technology is that threatening to our drivers until it is actually proven and considered to be added to cars (taxis).
What was the main topic anyway…I forgot!
Cheers
guybrush
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They're REALLY scrambling that envious little brain of yours, aren't they Robbie!
Those intelligent, handsome, swaggering, well-heeled, debonair devils of the sky - the SIA pilots!
Well pal, it's a FACT of life that THEY are where THEY are, and YOU aren't. You and they are WORLDS apart.
You can post all the cr@p you want here, but in your lifetime, and theirs', there won't be any monumental changes affecting them (nor you).
Life can be tough for some, so grit your teeth and bear it, Robbie, and leave the work of flying those big, sleek SQ aircraft that pass overhead you to the PROFESSIONALS
(Go get some treatment Robbie - that envy must be hurting you something bad! )
Those intelligent, handsome, swaggering, well-heeled, debonair devils of the sky - the SIA pilots!
Well pal, it's a FACT of life that THEY are where THEY are, and YOU aren't. You and they are WORLDS apart.
You can post all the cr@p you want here, but in your lifetime, and theirs', there won't be any monumental changes affecting them (nor you).
Life can be tough for some, so grit your teeth and bear it, Robbie, and leave the work of flying those big, sleek SQ aircraft that pass overhead you to the PROFESSIONALS
(Go get some treatment Robbie - that envy must be hurting you something bad!
)
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Well Mr Collins, how about if YOU try and substantiate even some of the rubbish you have posted here? Me? I've got over eighty years of commercial aviation to back my arguments, forty of those years I have been an intergral part of that aviation system and had dealings with thousands of passengers that don't support your unique views not to mention hundreds of colleagues too.
This is a professional pilots forum, remember? How about if you wandered into a Doctors or Lawyers forum and told them they were over rated and time expired? What reaction would you expect then? What substantiation would you expect to get if they even bothered to rebut your very strange and minority opinions?
Of course, in Singapore doctors, dentists and lawyers are the top three professions from which most of the politicians come too, (surprise, surprise!) so your not going to knock them are you?!
You applaud yourself for convincing people with your totally unsubstantiated arguments yet no one agrees with you, how do you work that out?
At the risk of becoming boring I'll repeat myself, you are a Troll Mr Collins seeking only to stir up trouble. If your motive is mischief then so be it but if you are a R of S 'plant' designed to further reduce the status of SIA pilots then you are despicable.
What a shame that you chose the user name you did too, a highly respected pilot that once flew for SIA.
This is a professional pilots forum, remember? How about if you wandered into a Doctors or Lawyers forum and told them they were over rated and time expired? What reaction would you expect then? What substantiation would you expect to get if they even bothered to rebut your very strange and minority opinions?
Of course, in Singapore doctors, dentists and lawyers are the top three professions from which most of the politicians come too, (surprise, surprise!) so your not going to knock them are you?!
You applaud yourself for convincing people with your totally unsubstantiated arguments yet no one agrees with you, how do you work that out?
At the risk of becoming boring I'll repeat myself, you are a Troll Mr Collins seeking only to stir up trouble. If your motive is mischief then so be it but if you are a R of S 'plant' designed to further reduce the status of SIA pilots then you are despicable.
What a shame that you chose the user name you did too, a highly respected pilot that once flew for SIA.
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This thread is getting a little overheated. Why don't we stop the rambling and mudslinging and why don't we try to get some opinions going. I thought that the idea of pilotless passengers airplanes is still light years away, but again that is my opinion. Some people on this thread have other opinions and have the right to have these other opinions, so let's start a civil arguement with the pro's and con's of these future robot cockpits. It won't affect me but could affect my son or grandson's flying asperations so wouldn't it be nice if we had some diverse arguments here to make it possible to form a balanced opinion.
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Hey Kap,
Let me remind you about what you and your "like minded " friends have said in the past:
Something about " control" and " not their sons or even the sons of their sons"
D--k head
Let me remind you about what you and your "like minded " friends have said in the past:
Something about " control" and " not their sons or even the sons of their sons"
D--k head
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WHooooow Whoooow not so fast, I meant my possible future grandson or daughter, but as far as I know that is still premature!!!(even before premature I hope) . One son and daughter is enough for the time being!!
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Well I do apologise but I didn't realise this thread was about pilotless aircraft and having re-read the initial post I have to say I still don't see it.
As I don't think a commericial pilotless aircraft is even a faint possibility I'll butt out now and leave you guys to it.
As I don't think a commericial pilotless aircraft is even a faint possibility I'll butt out now and leave you guys to it.
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Hi all,
Think the thread was about SIA and the people behind it which then took a sharp turn towords pilots job perspective and to a heading of pilotless aircrafts....
"As I don't think a commercial pilotless aircraft is even a faint possibility"
I agree to the statement above . (when the word COMMERCIAL is in ...)
Millitary might have something to do with the pilotsless a/c and correct me if i am wrong...i have only heard about remote controlled a/c as in there are some level of participation from a human being controlling the aircraft ....hmm
"Pilots who loose jobs to a pilotless a/c can apply to control the aircraft from the ground...well might be something good from all this after all...
//%$ To be useful, a system has to be able to do more than just correctly perform some task.- John McDermott//%$
Think the thread was about SIA and the people behind it which then took a sharp turn towords pilots job perspective and to a heading of pilotless aircrafts....
"As I don't think a commercial pilotless aircraft is even a faint possibility"
I agree to the statement above . (when the word COMMERCIAL is in ...)
Millitary might have something to do with the pilotsless a/c and correct me if i am wrong...i have only heard about remote controlled a/c as in there are some level of participation from a human being controlling the aircraft ....hmm
"Pilots who loose jobs to a pilotless a/c can apply to control the aircraft from the ground...well might be something good from all this after all...
//%$ To be useful, a system has to be able to do more than just correctly perform some task.- John McDermott//%$
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I've got over eighty years of commercial aviation to back my arguments, forty of those years I have been an intergral part of that aviation system and had dealings with thousands of passengers
This is a professional pilots forum, remember?
How about if you wandered into a Doctors or Lawyers forum and told them they were over rated and time expired?
You applaud yourself for convincing people with your totally unsubstantiated arguments yet no one agrees with you, how do you work that out?
At the risk of becoming boring I'll repeat myself, you are a Troll Mr Collins seeking only to stir up trouble. If your motive is mischief then so be it but if you are a R of S 'plant' designed to further reduce the status of SIA pilots then you are despicable.
What a shame that you chose the user name you did too, a highly respected pilot that once flew for SIA.