Japanarama
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Serious question, guys - but first a confession........I`ve eaten kujira sashimi on 2 occasions recently.
To be honest, it doesn`t taste too much different to basashi (raw horsemeat). The French also eat horse, don`t they?
So the question is this, "Is killing whales any worse than slaughtering cows, sheep, or pigs, to provide meat for human consumption?"
IF the whales being culled are?@NOT an endangered species, and the culling is kept within a certain quota, why shouldn`t the rest of the world allow the Japanese to carry out whaling, which has been a part of their culture for centuries?
We allow the Inuits, and Australian aboriginals, to kill specific animals - which would be otherwise illegal for non members of those races - because we recognise the animals as being traditional food sources for them.
The problem is going to be nominating a number that caters solely to the Japanese population, but not be seen as "commercial".
From an article in the Japan Times, I understand the "whaling research" is to determine how many whales can be killed, before the (whale) population starts declining.
Pretty UNscientific, imo.
To be honest, it doesn`t taste too much different to basashi (raw horsemeat). The French also eat horse, don`t they?
So the question is this, "Is killing whales any worse than slaughtering cows, sheep, or pigs, to provide meat for human consumption?"
IF the whales being culled are?@NOT an endangered species, and the culling is kept within a certain quota, why shouldn`t the rest of the world allow the Japanese to carry out whaling, which has been a part of their culture for centuries?
We allow the Inuits, and Australian aboriginals, to kill specific animals - which would be otherwise illegal for non members of those races - because we recognise the animals as being traditional food sources for them.
The problem is going to be nominating a number that caters solely to the Japanese population, but not be seen as "commercial".
From an article in the Japan Times, I understand the "whaling research" is to determine how many whales can be killed, before the (whale) population starts declining.
Pretty UNscientific, imo.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Longitude East 114 degrees
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For the leader of a male dominated society such as Japan to be stood up and humiliated on the international stage by a lady of repute must have been something of a real body blow. Serve him right for shooting his mouth off about a very sensitive issue which he seems incapable of understanding. Wang guo zhi yan which translates to "words that would cause a nation to perish". Reports are coming in that the entire Chinese nation is applauding the decision of Vice Premier Ms Wu Yi to leave this "leader" with his mouth hanging open. I salute her.
Kapitan M: Apa khahar kawan
Surely it depends on whether or not it is essential to hunt whales for survival. If a nation is doing it to simply satisfy an acquired exotic taste then don't you think that the international community should consider that an entirely different matter. Regards
Jumpa Lagi
Prince of Dzun
Kapitan M: Apa khahar kawan
Surely it depends on whether or not it is essential to hunt whales for survival. If a nation is doing it to simply satisfy an acquired exotic taste then don't you think that the international community should consider that an entirely different matter. Regards
Jumpa Lagi
Prince of Dzun
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont think that the fact Vice Premier Ms Wu Yi is a woman is the point here. The point is, she was in Japan as the Vice Premier of China. She is representing China, not women. Her behaviour as such is appalling. She arrived in Japan a day AFTER Koizumis latest shrine comments.
The initial reason given for her rude departure was urgent domestic business, then later was changed to her reacting to Koizumis comments.
This reeks of a set-up. Diplomatically, it is a serious insult. Wu Yi, therefore China has lied on the public stage by changing her excuse. And by using Koizumis actions from before she arrived as the new excuse just compounds the lie. If she felt that strongly about it she would not have boarded the plane.
Maybe China will continue to applaud her. I think that the rest of the world is starting to realise just who is fanning the flames in this dispute. As you say, there is turbulence ahead, will you continue to blame Japan or will China start to shoulder some of the responsibility?
As for the whaling, I have no problem with them being fished or eaten. As long as it is sustainable. If any species are endangered they should not be harvested form the wild. I know most of the current opinion against whaling is based on the massive shortage in the 80s. I would be interested to know what current stocks are like. I do have a problem with whale meat being caught in the name of science and being sold as food. What tests are done on it before it is eaten?
The initial reason given for her rude departure was urgent domestic business, then later was changed to her reacting to Koizumis comments.
This reeks of a set-up. Diplomatically, it is a serious insult. Wu Yi, therefore China has lied on the public stage by changing her excuse. And by using Koizumis actions from before she arrived as the new excuse just compounds the lie. If she felt that strongly about it she would not have boarded the plane.
Maybe China will continue to applaud her. I think that the rest of the world is starting to realise just who is fanning the flames in this dispute. As you say, there is turbulence ahead, will you continue to blame Japan or will China start to shoulder some of the responsibility?
As for the whaling, I have no problem with them being fished or eaten. As long as it is sustainable. If any species are endangered they should not be harvested form the wild. I know most of the current opinion against whaling is based on the massive shortage in the 80s. I would be interested to know what current stocks are like. I do have a problem with whale meat being caught in the name of science and being sold as food. What tests are done on it before it is eaten?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: German Corner
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kaptain M,
Whaling hasn't been a part of Japanese culture for centuries. They only started catching kujira after WW2 because they were starving.
It's a pure crime to catch and kill these creatures. I had a job whale watching with tourists and to think anyone would want to kill them is very sad indeed. The Jpapnese simply don't need to keep this practice up in my opinion.
It's not like they are starving now are they?
Hope you are still enjoying living in Nihon.
Ciao
Shaggy
Whaling hasn't been a part of Japanese culture for centuries. They only started catching kujira after WW2 because they were starving.
It's a pure crime to catch and kill these creatures. I had a job whale watching with tourists and to think anyone would want to kill them is very sad indeed. The Jpapnese simply don't need to keep this practice up in my opinion.
It's not like they are starving now are they?
Hope you are still enjoying living in Nihon.
Ciao
Shaggy
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whaling:
If the Japanese want to keep whaling then do it like the inuits.
Go out in a hand carved boat with a spear and try to hunt whales. The Japanese don't deserve to hunt whale in open waters....the whaling vessels look like a Aegis Destroyers and they slaughter these majestic creatures. The Japanese don't see whales as being any different from tuna, eels, cows, pigs and so forth. Therein lies the problem. The Japanese have found a loophole in the system and they justify the killing of whales "as research"...when in fact it's just to please their appetite. I find many younger people are against whaling...as Japan becomes more "internationalized" we might see policy changes. From my experience, there's a huge moral gap between Gen Xers and Baby Boomers here in Japan (most of my friends are Gen Xers and they talk about it)
China and politcs:
During and after C. Rice's visit to China, it was reported that many public racial slurs were made about the Secretary of State...so I don't see China being a victim here...it's a pattern. China is doing a great job of causing "turbulence" with the E.U., the United States and it's Asian neighbors. The drama continues...
If the Japanese want to keep whaling then do it like the inuits.
Go out in a hand carved boat with a spear and try to hunt whales. The Japanese don't deserve to hunt whale in open waters....the whaling vessels look like a Aegis Destroyers and they slaughter these majestic creatures. The Japanese don't see whales as being any different from tuna, eels, cows, pigs and so forth. Therein lies the problem. The Japanese have found a loophole in the system and they justify the killing of whales "as research"...when in fact it's just to please their appetite. I find many younger people are against whaling...as Japan becomes more "internationalized" we might see policy changes. From my experience, there's a huge moral gap between Gen Xers and Baby Boomers here in Japan (most of my friends are Gen Xers and they talk about it)
China and politcs:
During and after C. Rice's visit to China, it was reported that many public racial slurs were made about the Secretary of State...so I don't see China being a victim here...it's a pattern. China is doing a great job of causing "turbulence" with the E.U., the United States and it's Asian neighbors. The drama continues...
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Longitude East 114 degrees
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The war memorial section of Prime Minister Koizumi's Yasukuni Shrine has a Mitsubishi Zero (type 50) on permanent display. There is a caption with the aircraft explaining that it participated in attacks on the Chinese city of Chongqing (Chungking) in 1940. Why the Japanese wish to remind visitors to the shrine about this is beyong belief for a normal thinking person. The bombing of Chongqing which was a non military defenseless city resulted in the wanton slaughter of thousands of women and children and for no good advantage. This act was considered by the Allies as a dark episode of the Japanese war campaign but it would seem the Japanese are proud of it and proud of the aircraft that carried it out. How else can they explain having it at the Yasukuni Shrine rather than displaying it at a regular museum.
"What about Enola Gay" I hear NZLeardriver and Stereolab shouting. Well the difference is that even though it's a national treasure Enola Gay is not part of a shrine.
Prince of Dzun
"What about Enola Gay" I hear NZLeardriver and Stereolab shouting. Well the difference is that even though it's a national treasure Enola Gay is not part of a shrine.
Prince of Dzun
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Totally unrelated to the current discussion.
I dated a Japanese chick at college (in New York), and if we ever went clubbing in one car (5 people), she alone would easily outdrink the other 4 of us put together.
Unless one or more of the other 4 was also Japanese.
I dated a Japanese chick at college (in New York), and if we ever went clubbing in one car (5 people), she alone would easily outdrink the other 4 of us put together.
Unless one or more of the other 4 was also Japanese.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: asia
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'mopposed towhaling.
KEEP WHALES IN THE GROUND WHERE THEY BELONG.
Oops, sorry that might be the antiuranium mining slogan. I'll comebacck when the effects of a bottle of red have woorn offg.
KEEP WHALES IN THE GROUND WHERE THEY BELONG.
Oops, sorry that might be the antiuranium mining slogan. I'll comebacck when the effects of a bottle of red have woorn offg.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Well, just as one thinks he's got the whole system here "sussed", along comes another one.
Yesterday, I had a Nagoya stay - we are accomodated at a Hotel not too far from Nagoya Station - about 50 minutes from Chubu/Centrair Airport.
As Fate would have it, I needed an iron to press my shirt for the following day's work.
Having (forunately) done this several times over the past 6 years, I (thought I) was reasonably familiar with the sops for requesting the aforementioned devices.
Dial 5........ring ring....ring ring....."Hurro - bellboy."
"Konnichiwa (it's 1700..5pm local), may I have an eye-ron, please."
"Huh?"
"May I have an eye-ron sent to my room. please."
"Oh, sorry we have no eye-ron. Why do want eye-ron?"
"I need eye-ron to eye-ron my shart, and my zubon (Japanese for "trousers")"
"Sorry, all the eye-ron are rent to guests."
"Oh, okay I'll call back later. Thank you."
1800 (6pm)
Dial 5.......ring ring......ring ring..."Hurro - bellboy."
"May I have an eye-ron sent to my room please?"
"Sorry, we have no eye-ron."
"Oh, okay, when will an eye-ron be available?"
"We have no eye-ron."
"Okay, I understand that NOW you have no eye-ron - but when can you bring an eye-ron to me?"
"It's depend on guest. Sorry."
And so I decide it's probably better to go out and grab something to eat, and to then call back later.
1930 (7:30pm)
At the Front Desk of said Hotel.
"Hi. May I have an eye-ron, please?"
"What is your room number?"
"1320"
"Sorry, we have no eye-ron."
"Please tell me how many eye-rons this Hotel has."
"Five or ten."..........for a 15 storey Hotel, that seems to me to be an incredibly small number!
"I see. So what time do you think an eye-ron will be available?"
"Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe later."
"Okay, so please call my room number when you have one."
2030 (8:30pm)
Dial 5....ring ring.........ring ring.
"Hurro - Bell boy."
"Hullo Bell Boy, may I please have an eye-ron."
"Just a moment please."...................Greensleaves........
Bing-bong (the door bell chimes).
Opens door.......
"Sorry sir, all the eye-rons are taken by the guests. Maybe later you can have one."
0215 (0215am)
Dial 5...ring ring..ring ring...ring ring....ring ring.ring....ring ring
"Huuuuuuu.........huuuuuuu....huuuuu, Hullo?"
"Hullo
May I have an eye-ron please."
"Huh?"
"May I have an eye-ron, please."
"Sorry, we have no iron. All the guest are using."
"Oh, okay. Please tell me the room number of the guests who are using the eye-rons, because I have been calling since 5pm this afternoon. I will ask the guest to return the eye-ron so that I can use it."
"But the guest are all sleeping."
"Yes, but I need an eye-ron."
"WHY do you need an iron?"
Now the mind boggles. At 0215, I wonder what really kinky stuff the Japanese might get up to, with an "eye-ron"!!??
"Ummmmm, I want to eye-ron my uniform shart."
"Sorry, there is no eye-ron available."
Even at 0430 -almost 12 hours since my original request - there was no eye-ron available..
But NOW comes the BEST part!!
I relayed the above story to the F/O, who was unfortunate enough to have been paired with me for this 3 day adventure.
When I got to the part about, "Why do you need an eye-ron?" (and my not so subtle quips about the sexual fantasies I frequently have with eye-rons), he replied, "Oh yes. Well I remember during my training using an eye-ron for a bbq."
"For a BBQ????????????????" I asked him.
"Yes, we used to cook steak and fish on the eye-ron when I was doing my flying training.", he said.
Ever wondered about those marks on the hotel irons??
Yesterday, I had a Nagoya stay - we are accomodated at a Hotel not too far from Nagoya Station - about 50 minutes from Chubu/Centrair Airport.
As Fate would have it, I needed an iron to press my shirt for the following day's work.
Having (forunately) done this several times over the past 6 years, I (thought I) was reasonably familiar with the sops for requesting the aforementioned devices.
Dial 5........ring ring....ring ring....."Hurro - bellboy."
"Konnichiwa (it's 1700..5pm local), may I have an eye-ron, please."
"Huh?"
"May I have an eye-ron sent to my room. please."
"Oh, sorry we have no eye-ron. Why do want eye-ron?"
"I need eye-ron to eye-ron my shart, and my zubon (Japanese for "trousers")"
"Sorry, all the eye-ron are rent to guests."
"Oh, okay I'll call back later. Thank you."
1800 (6pm)
Dial 5.......ring ring......ring ring..."Hurro - bellboy."
"May I have an eye-ron sent to my room please?"
"Sorry, we have no eye-ron."
"Oh, okay, when will an eye-ron be available?"
"We have no eye-ron."
"Okay, I understand that NOW you have no eye-ron - but when can you bring an eye-ron to me?"
"It's depend on guest. Sorry."
And so I decide it's probably better to go out and grab something to eat, and to then call back later.
1930 (7:30pm)
At the Front Desk of said Hotel.
"Hi. May I have an eye-ron, please?"
"What is your room number?"
"1320"
"Sorry, we have no eye-ron."
"Please tell me how many eye-rons this Hotel has."
"Five or ten."..........for a 15 storey Hotel, that seems to me to be an incredibly small number!
"I see. So what time do you think an eye-ron will be available?"
"Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe later."
"Okay, so please call my room number when you have one."
2030 (8:30pm)
Dial 5....ring ring.........ring ring.
"Hurro - Bell boy."
"Hullo Bell Boy, may I please have an eye-ron."
"Just a moment please."...................Greensleaves........
Bing-bong (the door bell chimes).
Opens door.......
"Sorry sir, all the eye-rons are taken by the guests. Maybe later you can have one."
0215 (0215am)
Dial 5...ring ring..ring ring...ring ring....ring ring.ring....ring ring
"Huuuuuuu.........huuuuuuu....huuuuu, Hullo?"
"Hullo
May I have an eye-ron please.""Huh?"
"May I have an eye-ron, please."
"Sorry, we have no iron. All the guest are using."
"Oh, okay. Please tell me the room number of the guests who are using the eye-rons, because I have been calling since 5pm this afternoon. I will ask the guest to return the eye-ron so that I can use it."
"But the guest are all sleeping."
"Yes, but I need an eye-ron."
"WHY do you need an iron?"
Now the mind boggles. At 0215, I wonder what really kinky stuff the Japanese might get up to, with an "eye-ron"!!??
"Ummmmm, I want to eye-ron my uniform shart."
"Sorry, there is no eye-ron available."
Even at 0430 -almost 12 hours since my original request - there was no eye-ron available..
But NOW comes the BEST part!!
I relayed the above story to the F/O, who was unfortunate enough to have been paired with me for this 3 day adventure.
When I got to the part about, "Why do you need an eye-ron?" (and my not so subtle quips about the sexual fantasies I frequently have with eye-rons), he replied, "Oh yes. Well I remember during my training using an eye-ron for a bbq."
"For a BBQ????????????????" I asked him.
"Yes, we used to cook steak and fish on the eye-ron when I was doing my flying training.", he said.
Ever wondered about those marks on the hotel irons??
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Japan
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those contemplating joining a Japanese airline, you may be interested in the following link
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=9&id=343139
They say they are prepared to look at recommendations made by the UN body, but they are not prepared to observe the recommendations of the International Whaling Commission because those are not binding, sio what hope would any UN recommendation have??.
One of the posts appearing on that site follows:
Positive discrimination?
Maria (Jul 12 2005 - 08:37)
Kikokushijo said (Jul 12 2005 - 00:00)
"Keep in mind, peoples....
That if your're a Western-type foreigner working in Japan, you're probably making more than the national average as far as incomes go."
Now, is that true?
If you can let us know what the average national annual salary is for Japanese people (including bonus) and prove that "Western-type foreigners" are in fact getting paid more, then a)the, er, non-Western-type foreigners (?) should be told; and b) so should Doudou Diene(which is a great name, by the way!), for fairness' sake.
What Kikikushijo (who I think would be a westerner, or wanting to be a westerner, with his cliched but somewhat dated, "Keep in mind, peoples")fails to take into account in his ridiculous post is that the only foreign workers allowed in are those with professional qualifications and for which there is a shortage. They are certainly paid more than "average" workers of whom there are millions and who drag the average down. Foreign tea ladies don't get a look in.
And what the hell, if you earn more than a local, any local, that has to be reasonable grounds for discrimination and contempt, hasn't it?
Japan is like the rest of the world; not many deep thinkers there, but very courteous drivers. You got a positive Stereolab just so you don't think I hate them.
Beware those on these forums who think they're children of Nippon (you know the ones who speak a few words of japanese and think they're fluent after a month in the country)or are apologists for the Japs like Stereolab and NZLear Driver.
Japanese are racist, and just one of the areas of discrimination you will encounter is that you will be paid a LOT less than local pilots and of course treated with open and absolute contempt. Go there if your desire is for public humiliation, sort of like karaoke, but at least you humiliate yourself in that pursuit.
You casn do both of course by going to Japan.
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=9&id=343139
They say they are prepared to look at recommendations made by the UN body, but they are not prepared to observe the recommendations of the International Whaling Commission because those are not binding, sio what hope would any UN recommendation have??.
One of the posts appearing on that site follows:
Positive discrimination?
Maria (Jul 12 2005 - 08:37)
Kikokushijo said (Jul 12 2005 - 00:00)
"Keep in mind, peoples....
That if your're a Western-type foreigner working in Japan, you're probably making more than the national average as far as incomes go."
Now, is that true?
If you can let us know what the average national annual salary is for Japanese people (including bonus) and prove that "Western-type foreigners" are in fact getting paid more, then a)the, er, non-Western-type foreigners (?) should be told; and b) so should Doudou Diene(which is a great name, by the way!), for fairness' sake.
What Kikikushijo (who I think would be a westerner, or wanting to be a westerner, with his cliched but somewhat dated, "Keep in mind, peoples")fails to take into account in his ridiculous post is that the only foreign workers allowed in are those with professional qualifications and for which there is a shortage. They are certainly paid more than "average" workers of whom there are millions and who drag the average down. Foreign tea ladies don't get a look in.
And what the hell, if you earn more than a local, any local, that has to be reasonable grounds for discrimination and contempt, hasn't it?
Japan is like the rest of the world; not many deep thinkers there, but very courteous drivers. You got a positive Stereolab just so you don't think I hate them.
Beware those on these forums who think they're children of Nippon (you know the ones who speak a few words of japanese and think they're fluent after a month in the country)or are apologists for the Japs like Stereolab and NZLear Driver.
Japanese are racist, and just one of the areas of discrimination you will encounter is that you will be paid a LOT less than local pilots and of course treated with open and absolute contempt. Go there if your desire is for public humiliation, sort of like karaoke, but at least you humiliate yourself in that pursuit.
You casn do both of course by going to Japan.
Last edited by JapJok; 12th Jul 2005 at 07:31.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Longitude East 114 degrees
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greetings Japanarama, good to see you back as there is much to talk about and any number of wrongs to consider . Stealing real estate, outrageous maritime claims, killing whales, insulting Korea, harassing fishmen and cutting their nets, bowing low (very low ) to big brother and of course the plot to trap President Putin when he visits Nippon in November this year.
For those of you who are not to sure about what JapJok is saying then tap Japan Today into Google and all will become crystal clear.
Prince of Dzun
For those of you who are not to sure about what JapJok is saying then tap Japan Today into Google and all will become crystal clear.
Prince of Dzun
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Japjok,
Dude, your runnin' yer mouth and droppin' my name on this thread as if I visit the Yasukuni-jinja everyday like Koizumi...and drive around in those beat-up black vans waving around "okii" rising sun flags.
In the past, I called you out on these posts because you whine about how HORRIBLE IT IS TO WORK FOR THE JAPANESE, yet I bet you can't even speak Japanese. Try WORKING in America or the U.K. and see how well your treated w/o being fluent in English...same situation, different country. I knew tons of Britts who were software programmers in the United States and they were getting exploited by their employers as well..with the promise of fresh green cards at the end of their contract. So, this has nothing to do with the Japanese being racist...it's called capitalism (yes I agree it's wrong). You are foriegn labor. Your an immigrant. Your a MINORITY. You don't like it...leave...or stay and try to learn the language. Without fluency, there can be no improvements in worker relations.
There are plenty of Japanese companies that hire gaijins and they are treated even better than nihonjin. Maybe, the reason why all of you JAPAN HATERS get mistreated is because your mistrust and negative attitude towards their culture reflects on your personality and behavior when dealing with lifes everyday pitfalls and problems. When living in one's own respective HOME COUNTRY, one can get screwed over everyday...from your employer, the bank, the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. When this happens, do you call the culture racists? No.
You can change the situation. The teachers union here in Japan are working on improving foriegn worker relations as we speak. The difference between their attitude and your attitude, Japjok, is that they respect the culture and have a working level fluency in Japanese. Of course, if the situation were reversed, and this injustice was happening in the U.K. and United States, we would demand english fluency of foriegn labor when trying to initiate a LEGAL CHANGE IN THE SYSTEM.
How about working in America Japjok? Suuuuuuure, there's NO RACIAL DISCRIMINATION in AMERICA...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? Japan is far from perfect....but I see just about the same amount of injustice happening to foreign labor in the E.U. and the United States. When you guys are back home, it doesn't affect you...so you ignore it, or maybe your one who hates immigrants coming over to YOUR own home country. See the double standard?
When I run into a stumbling block here, I try to be courteous and try to speak as much Japanese as possible in order to resolve the situation. You want the Japanese to respect you Japjok?
Try this...
LEARN THE LANGUAGE!!!
Dude, your runnin' yer mouth and droppin' my name on this thread as if I visit the Yasukuni-jinja everyday like Koizumi...and drive around in those beat-up black vans waving around "okii" rising sun flags.
In the past, I called you out on these posts because you whine about how HORRIBLE IT IS TO WORK FOR THE JAPANESE, yet I bet you can't even speak Japanese. Try WORKING in America or the U.K. and see how well your treated w/o being fluent in English...same situation, different country. I knew tons of Britts who were software programmers in the United States and they were getting exploited by their employers as well..with the promise of fresh green cards at the end of their contract. So, this has nothing to do with the Japanese being racist...it's called capitalism (yes I agree it's wrong). You are foriegn labor. Your an immigrant. Your a MINORITY. You don't like it...leave...or stay and try to learn the language. Without fluency, there can be no improvements in worker relations.
There are plenty of Japanese companies that hire gaijins and they are treated even better than nihonjin. Maybe, the reason why all of you JAPAN HATERS get mistreated is because your mistrust and negative attitude towards their culture reflects on your personality and behavior when dealing with lifes everyday pitfalls and problems. When living in one's own respective HOME COUNTRY, one can get screwed over everyday...from your employer, the bank, the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. When this happens, do you call the culture racists? No.
You can change the situation. The teachers union here in Japan are working on improving foriegn worker relations as we speak. The difference between their attitude and your attitude, Japjok, is that they respect the culture and have a working level fluency in Japanese. Of course, if the situation were reversed, and this injustice was happening in the U.K. and United States, we would demand english fluency of foriegn labor when trying to initiate a LEGAL CHANGE IN THE SYSTEM.
How about working in America Japjok? Suuuuuuure, there's NO RACIAL DISCRIMINATION in AMERICA...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? Japan is far from perfect....but I see just about the same amount of injustice happening to foreign labor in the E.U. and the United States. When you guys are back home, it doesn't affect you...so you ignore it, or maybe your one who hates immigrants coming over to YOUR own home country. See the double standard?
When I run into a stumbling block here, I try to be courteous and try to speak as much Japanese as possible in order to resolve the situation. You want the Japanese to respect you Japjok?
Try this...
LEARN THE LANGUAGE!!!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Longitude East 114 degrees
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stereolab;
You seem to be saying there is no connection between the Japan of the past ( with all its sins ) and the Japan of today.?? Didn't they teach you in kindergarden class the story about the leopard and its spots.
Prince of Dzun.
You seem to be saying there is no connection between the Japan of the past ( with all its sins ) and the Japan of today.?? Didn't they teach you in kindergarden class the story about the leopard and its spots.
Prince of Dzun.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Between land masses
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think your feelings towards Japan are influenced by your wife, Stereolab.
In other words, love can blind you - or when the c0ck goes hard, the brain goes soft.
JapJok didn`t write the news article, he has merely made reference to what another (neutral) party found.
Wake up and smell the cherry blossoms, son.
In other words, love can blind you - or when the c0ck goes hard, the brain goes soft.
JapJok didn`t write the news article, he has merely made reference to what another (neutral) party found.
Wake up and smell the cherry blossoms, son.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah...it's nice to be married to a Nihonjin...she can read all the Kanji in the pi$$ poor pilot contracts you guys ended up signing.
I met a couple of my fellow countrymen at NCA last week...they seem to be happy as a lark. No contract issues, great pay etc, etc. Also, I know several automotive design engineers in Nagoya who work for Toyota...they couldn't be happier as well. Hmmm....seems to me, some of you guys signed bad contracts.
Ohh, but please...I don't want to stop the "Japanarama" whine session...after all your illiterate here in Japan and have no one to talk to...right?
I met a couple of my fellow countrymen at NCA last week...they seem to be happy as a lark. No contract issues, great pay etc, etc. Also, I know several automotive design engineers in Nagoya who work for Toyota...they couldn't be happier as well. Hmmm....seems to me, some of you guys signed bad contracts.
Ohh, but please...I don't want to stop the "Japanarama" whine session...after all your illiterate here in Japan and have no one to talk to...right?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Japan
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stereolab you are missing one point critical to the discussion.
Civilized countries have laws on discrimination and racial vilification....Japan DOES NOT.
Japan even has an 'alphabet' specifically to differentiate introduced (foreign) words!! Now if that doesn't indicate a problem the Japanese have with foreigners, what does? Dumping katakana would create no problems for the language. Hiragana can cover all foreign words also.
Incidentally for those who aren't familiar with Japanese, the 'alphabet' used for foreign words has exactly the same sounds as the local, but different characters...106 of them.
I work with people who have been flying around the world for the last 30+ years and they feign not understanding basic English. I understand more Japanese than they purport to understand English!!
Contract's OK, no major beefs with that just with the attitudes of the people. Contract's written in English too, not kanji as I'm sure yours would be so that you can expound your great knowledge of the language. I suspect you're one of those who knows a dozen words and think you're Japanese. I know a few like you.
As for your squeeze being able to read kanji, she can do what a lot of other young Japanese can't do apparently. When I ask FO's to tell me what a kanji sign says, many struggle. Admittedly there are over 3000 kanji characters in everyday use, but few know over 1000 and many a lot less.
Foreign Worker may be right. This could be a severe case of big knob/small knob syndrome.
Kanji is Chinese writing. the Japanese claim that whilst the Chinese developed it, they perfected it!! Man do they have an attitude problem here.
Illiteracy...lack of reading and writing skills, not speaking skills. That's dumb........is there a message here for you ?
Civilized countries have laws on discrimination and racial vilification....Japan DOES NOT.
Japan even has an 'alphabet' specifically to differentiate introduced (foreign) words!! Now if that doesn't indicate a problem the Japanese have with foreigners, what does? Dumping katakana would create no problems for the language. Hiragana can cover all foreign words also.
Incidentally for those who aren't familiar with Japanese, the 'alphabet' used for foreign words has exactly the same sounds as the local, but different characters...106 of them.
I work with people who have been flying around the world for the last 30+ years and they feign not understanding basic English. I understand more Japanese than they purport to understand English!!
Contract's OK, no major beefs with that just with the attitudes of the people. Contract's written in English too, not kanji as I'm sure yours would be so that you can expound your great knowledge of the language. I suspect you're one of those who knows a dozen words and think you're Japanese. I know a few like you.
As for your squeeze being able to read kanji, she can do what a lot of other young Japanese can't do apparently. When I ask FO's to tell me what a kanji sign says, many struggle. Admittedly there are over 3000 kanji characters in everyday use, but few know over 1000 and many a lot less.
Foreign Worker may be right. This could be a severe case of big knob/small knob syndrome.
Kanji is Chinese writing. the Japanese claim that whilst the Chinese developed it, they perfected it!! Man do they have an attitude problem here.
Illiteracy...lack of reading and writing skills, not speaking skills. That's dumb........is there a message here for you ?
Last edited by JapJok; 12th Jul 2005 at 21:49.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Judge for yourself.
Same company, same job designation:
Japanese get 10 "Off" days per month - gaijin get 8;
Japanese pilots are given their birthday as an "Off" day - gaijin are not;
Japanese get unlimited, paid Sick Leave - gaijin get 0;
Japanese pilots are issued with a flight bag foc - gaijin are told they can buy them for JPY10,000;
Gaijin must pay for lost uniform items - Nihonjin have them replaced free;
Japanese pilot discovers cracked fan blade on engine during walkaround,and is given an A&E award for his astute observation - gaijin pilots discovers Sys B hydraulic leak during walkaround (after being told "Ship is okay" by maintenance staff)...no recognition;
Gaijin male being spat at by Japanese male, because the gaijin was with a Nihonjin female;
There are many, many clubs (and some onsen) that bar gaijin entry..."Japanese only!".
The above are a few examples that I'm quickly able to pluck from the top of my head.
As JapJok has stated, the DIFFERENCE between Japan, and other developed, civilised countries, is that there is a recognition in the latter that all people have the right to be treated equally.
This is NOT the case in Japan - it is endemic in their culture, that even within their own, there is discrimination - the burakumin, the 3rd and 4th Japan born Koreans and Chinese who are still regarded as non-Japanese.
Same company, same job designation:
Japanese get 10 "Off" days per month - gaijin get 8;
Japanese pilots are given their birthday as an "Off" day - gaijin are not;
Japanese get unlimited, paid Sick Leave - gaijin get 0;
Japanese pilots are issued with a flight bag foc - gaijin are told they can buy them for JPY10,000;
Gaijin must pay for lost uniform items - Nihonjin have them replaced free;
Japanese pilot discovers cracked fan blade on engine during walkaround,and is given an A&E award for his astute observation - gaijin pilots discovers Sys B hydraulic leak during walkaround (after being told "Ship is okay" by maintenance staff)...no recognition;
Gaijin male being spat at by Japanese male, because the gaijin was with a Nihonjin female;
There are many, many clubs (and some onsen) that bar gaijin entry..."Japanese only!".
The above are a few examples that I'm quickly able to pluck from the top of my head.
As JapJok has stated, the DIFFERENCE between Japan, and other developed, civilised countries, is that there is a recognition in the latter that all people have the right to be treated equally.
This is NOT the case in Japan - it is endemic in their culture, that even within their own, there is discrimination - the burakumin, the 3rd and 4th Japan born Koreans and Chinese who are still regarded as non-Japanese.