A taste of reality please!
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A taste of reality please!
I am British and I have lived in Asia through out my 21 year life. So naturally I want to stay put.
I am currently half way through my training in Jerez with BAe systems and would like to measure up my chances of finding a job with an airline in Asia once finished!
Are respectable airlines around Asia willing to take on someone in my position?
Or, Airlines are not interested in someone who is not a national and has low hours!!
I am currently half way through my training in Jerez with BAe systems and would like to measure up my chances of finding a job with an airline in Asia once finished!
Are respectable airlines around Asia willing to take on someone in my position?
Or, Airlines are not interested in someone who is not a national and has low hours!!
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In a nutshell:
Nationality is not really a problem in Asia, even if some Airlines make "efforts" to hire nationals... In the end, they think with their wallet just like most managements...
The low hours are a BIG problem, if you are not under an airline sponsorship program. Chances right now just about zero to get into any serious kind of airline with no hours...
If you want to stay put, try for something corporate, nothing too fancy, King Air operation or such....
After some time, having about 500 hours of commercial flying on your log CAN make the difference...
Good Luck,
Nationality is not really a problem in Asia, even if some Airlines make "efforts" to hire nationals... In the end, they think with their wallet just like most managements...
The low hours are a BIG problem, if you are not under an airline sponsorship program. Chances right now just about zero to get into any serious kind of airline with no hours...
If you want to stay put, try for something corporate, nothing too fancy, King Air operation or such....
After some time, having about 500 hours of commercial flying on your log CAN make the difference...
Good Luck,
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Even with a licence you could still be eligible for some of the cadet programmes, which is just about the only way in to a major airline for you at this stage.
Some of the airlines you may want to consider are: (in no particular order!), China Airlines, EVA, Cathay Pacific, Dragonair,
Singapore Airlines, Malaysian Airlines (?). These are the ones most likely to be able to offer you a long term career structure.
Some of the airlines you may want to consider are: (in no particular order!), China Airlines, EVA, Cathay Pacific, Dragonair,
Singapore Airlines, Malaysian Airlines (?). These are the ones most likely to be able to offer you a long term career structure.
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Unfortunately Touch 'n' oops, Malaysia Airlines do not open their cadet programme to non nationals.
The situation in Malaysia is very bright for nationals with both MAS (MH) & Air Asia (AK) expanding, more so with AK.However as AK is very cost sensitive, they are more inclined to have nationals with them, & even if they do hire expats (a big if), it might not be on market value terms.As for MH, tey have their hands full with the local cadets programme.
Sorry to be the bearer of unfavourable news.
Fly safe all!
PILOST
The situation in Malaysia is very bright for nationals with both MAS (MH) & Air Asia (AK) expanding, more so with AK.However as AK is very cost sensitive, they are more inclined to have nationals with them, & even if they do hire expats (a big if), it might not be on market value terms.As for MH, tey have their hands full with the local cadets programme.
Sorry to be the bearer of unfavourable news.
Fly safe all!
PILOST
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Another question, if you all don't mind!
My father is in a very fortunate position and has a large number of contacts who work for Asian airlines. If I do get interviews, will this be in my favor?
Bear in mind he did work for CX at a high level with in the offices!
My father is in a very fortunate position and has a large number of contacts who work for Asian airlines. If I do get interviews, will this be in my favor?
Bear in mind he did work for CX at a high level with in the offices!
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Because quite honestly he really doesn't know!!!!
I'm not looking for "Validation" or smart Alec comments. Just sound advice from professionals who are in the thick of it!!!
Just to let you know bfd777, that if I did mention this in BA interview, I would have a black mark next to my name... Where as in Asia, in some industries and cultures it is an advantage, or then again some times not!!!
I'm not looking for "Validation" or smart Alec comments. Just sound advice from professionals who are in the thick of it!!!
Just to let you know bfd777, that if I did mention this in BA interview, I would have a black mark next to my name... Where as in Asia, in some industries and cultures it is an advantage, or then again some times not!!!
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If you are not sure than leave it out of the conversation. While it may be an advantage to know people with imnfluence, why not stand on your own two feet and get the job on merit rather than personal connections.
Many priveledged people I know who could play the game that way have opted to keep mum about it because it undermines the way they feel about themselves...always questioning did I get the job because I am good at what I do or just because Papa's connections got me in?
No doubt that networking is very important but at the end of the day you have to live with yourself and getting on somewhere because of who you know can take the lift out of your self-esteem.
If you have lived in Asia for most of your life I hope you have learned the language of the country you lived in and are culturally literate. Those two traits, along with your execptional flying skills and experience, will probably help you more in the long run than Papa and his friends because they will help you earn the respect of your peers.
Lastly, if you don't believe this now (and you may not since at 21 you know most everything) don't take this a criticism. It is not. Most people will feel better about themselves knowing that they got the job on their own rather than with connections. If you get the job because of connections everyone will know and you won't even get respect from the tug driver who pushes you back.
Many priveledged people I know who could play the game that way have opted to keep mum about it because it undermines the way they feel about themselves...always questioning did I get the job because I am good at what I do or just because Papa's connections got me in?
No doubt that networking is very important but at the end of the day you have to live with yourself and getting on somewhere because of who you know can take the lift out of your self-esteem.
If you have lived in Asia for most of your life I hope you have learned the language of the country you lived in and are culturally literate. Those two traits, along with your execptional flying skills and experience, will probably help you more in the long run than Papa and his friends because they will help you earn the respect of your peers.
Lastly, if you don't believe this now (and you may not since at 21 you know most everything) don't take this a criticism. It is not. Most people will feel better about themselves knowing that they got the job on their own rather than with connections. If you get the job because of connections everyone will know and you won't even get respect from the tug driver who pushes you back.
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Foot in Mouth disease
bfd777 post is the right advice.
Like all professional careers, you sink or swim by what you say. You might look great, have a few good references, have the qualifications and the hours for the job but blow it by name dropping. Once you have the basic requirements to make the prime job, you can use your contacts to help push your file to the top of the pile.
Only ever mention your contacts if asked "Do you anybody within this Airline?"
This doesn't just apply to Asia.
Airlines in Asia, especially China are desperate for Pilots but if you are a foreigner, then you'll need experience (& lots of it)
If you wish to enter the cadet program and you have the minimum qualifications then your Dad needs to know the CX CEO.
Like all professional careers, you sink or swim by what you say. You might look great, have a few good references, have the qualifications and the hours for the job but blow it by name dropping. Once you have the basic requirements to make the prime job, you can use your contacts to help push your file to the top of the pile.
Only ever mention your contacts if asked "Do you anybody within this Airline?"
This doesn't just apply to Asia.
Airlines in Asia, especially China are desperate for Pilots but if you are a foreigner, then you'll need experience (& lots of it)
If you wish to enter the cadet program and you have the minimum qualifications then your Dad needs to know the CX CEO.
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You bitter bittter people, are you trying to tell me, if your father could open a few doors to help your entry into a highly contested industry, you would refuse it, donīt make me laugh.....
"the tug driver wonīt even give you respect"... tw3t!!
With more people using contacts it just might com`pletely remove any chance you have for employment, even in the banner towing world:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"the tug driver wonīt even give you respect"... tw3t!!
With more people using contacts it just might com`pletely remove any chance you have for employment, even in the banner towing world:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Last edited by Colin Monkfish; 3rd Sep 2003 at 02:04.
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I can see what everyone is saying... so guess the way to go about it, is to use help from papa to get an interview. Once sat down and chatting, leave the 'I know' alone until someone wants to know???
Also I wish could speak the local lingo, but never spent enough time one place to start!! DOH!!
Also I wish could speak the local lingo, but never spent enough time one place to start!!
DOH!!
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Cole Monkfish : A bitter fish
Read my post again.
It's OK to use your contacts but do it unobtrusively.
Been listening in on the interviews for the cadet program here in China and believe me the board cringe when somebody name drops without being asked.
When we interview for foreign B737 Captains it's another story (We're interested in whether this pilot could enjoy China for 2 years) Unless your Daddy is Chairman Mao, namedropping can't help an expat.
If your dad can help to get your foot in the door great. If the opportunity to mention somebody respected by the interview panel presents itself, go for it.
But tread carefully
Read my post again.
It's OK to use your contacts but do it unobtrusively.
Been listening in on the interviews for the cadet program here in China and believe me the board cringe when somebody name drops without being asked.
When we interview for foreign B737 Captains it's another story (We're interested in whether this pilot could enjoy China for 2 years) Unless your Daddy is Chairman Mao, namedropping can't help an expat.
If your dad can help to get your foot in the door great. If the opportunity to mention somebody respected by the interview panel presents itself, go for it.
But tread carefully
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Le Pilot:
Interesting that a interview board of a Chinese carrier would react in such away! Not trying stir things up (Unlike Colin M, suggest you do a search under his name. I've seen him at it before!!
), but a couple of years ago that is how people got their jobs with CAL or some other Chinese carrier! Well, it's all new to me! Good thing to I say... Wasn't to keen to fly on CAL a few years ago.
Interesting that a interview board of a Chinese carrier would react in such away! Not trying stir things up (Unlike Colin M, suggest you do a search under his name. I've seen him at it before!!
), but a couple of years ago that is how people got their jobs with CAL or some other Chinese carrier! Well, it's all new to me! Good thing to I say... Wasn't to keen to fly on CAL a few years ago.
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Not CAL
I'm on the mainland not Taiwan.
Last 2 years with Hainan Airlines.
Hainan have taken over 200 Chinese cadets from training schools in the US and Australia. Intend to take another 300+ over the next year. At least 20 expat Captains to be employed over the next 6 months. (737 & 767)
Before everybody gets too excited: We made the same statement about taking on foreigners 18 months ago.
Presently we have 2.
Last 2 years with Hainan Airlines.
Hainan have taken over 200 Chinese cadets from training schools in the US and Australia. Intend to take another 300+ over the next year. At least 20 expat Captains to be employed over the next 6 months. (737 & 767)
Before everybody gets too excited: We made the same statement about taking on foreigners 18 months ago.
Presently we have 2.
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Le Pilot
I assume you are of european origin!
How do find the working environment?
How do national pilots treat you?
Do you speak Mandarin fluently?
Keep the info coming it's good stuff!
I assume you are of european origin!
How do find the working environment?
How do national pilots treat you?
Do you speak Mandarin fluently?
Keep the info coming it's good stuff!
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Hainan Airlines (HNA)
National Pilots are all great guys, probably because we are an extreme minority. They havn't got sick of us yet.
Yes, I am of European origin but have spent most of my life in Asia.
My mandarin sounds great if you don't know the language. If you know mandarin well, I must be the local comic. Need my tongue reconstructed.
Anyway enough Mandarin to get fed and make my way to the best foot massages for 12 RMB an hour! (about 70p!!)
At this point Shenzhen Airlines is hiring foreign Captains. China's National Airlines are starting to warm to the idea of foreign crew.
As of next week all air routes between Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou will be operated in English only. This is a catalyst for the hiring of more English speaking crew.
There is a definate need for Captains but other ranks will have to wait. The cadets return from the US & Australia with great English. Its the Captains that need to pick up our awkward language.
Touch''n''Oops see your Private Mail
Yes, I am of European origin but have spent most of my life in Asia.
My mandarin sounds great if you don't know the language. If you know mandarin well, I must be the local comic. Need my tongue reconstructed.
Anyway enough Mandarin to get fed and make my way to the best foot massages for 12 RMB an hour! (about 70p!!)
At this point Shenzhen Airlines is hiring foreign Captains. China's National Airlines are starting to warm to the idea of foreign crew.
As of next week all air routes between Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou will be operated in English only. This is a catalyst for the hiring of more English speaking crew.
There is a definate need for Captains but other ranks will have to wait. The cadets return from the US & Australia with great English. Its the Captains that need to pick up our awkward language.
Touch''n''Oops see your Private Mail
