For International Cadets.
 

For those who chooses the path to become a CX pilot through the introduction of international cadet scheme. I have this question in mind i want an answer to. :confused:

Lets say you are that lucky person who was selected to become an international cadet, does that mean you are now fully committed to spend the rest of your life in Hong Kong or in Cathay Pacific? (well at least i think that's what CX hopes u to do...otherwise CX is gonna gain nothing out of it...unless u make Captain) And for the duration of ur CX career...spending at least 50% of ur monthly salary trying to get a good life out of Hong Kong (known for its high living cost) i.e. live in a reasonable apartment and own a luxurious car of ur dream n eat out at decent western restaurants......However, knowing there are people who are doing the same job as you (an SO or FO or whatever) that are getting paid almost twice as much as you because he/she has housing allowances (through direct entry) and all the other stuff that a local contract does not include or cover.

It seems to be a good deal for you and a good deal for CX right at the beginning doesn't it? Because people who apply for the cadet scheme dont usually have alot of experience or technically none. But in the long run...it seems you are just getting ripped off by the company, when you ask yourself am I an expat or not? And you are an expat for one good reason "You are a westerner working away from home"

So...does this lead you to the part where you are going to eventually make yourself a real expat that has real expat terms and conditions after a certain period of service? And how are you going to do that? :ugh:

If you are ignoring this post after reading it, that means u are committed to getting ripped off in the long-run (by the statement above) or U already have other plans in mind after you have ur hrs.

If you dont think you are getting ripped off...then kindly leave a statement :ok: Will be interesting to know what others think of this, in order to see a different point of view.


Cheers :ok:

Smells like the "Fragrant Harbour" forums have just spilled into the "wannabe's" forum.

Did you want an answer for all 4 questions?

as far as i concern the only party that affected the most by the new CPP entry requirements are the HK local. i can hardly think of any strong reason to support those who keep yelling how cx rip off the international applicants. if you think it's a rip off, well, DO NOT apply and apply through the traditional way - DE, this "rip off" will never be your problem. There is no doubt that this international CPP **** do have an affect to the DE in terms of the total vacancy, but it should be minor.

FOr those current "expats" who complain about not able to survive with the local pay, well, no one pointing a gun to your head to send the application. I expect all applications are all mature adult and know the consequence.

in addition, i dont believe in loyalty, what's keeping anyone to stay in a job, say CX in this case & be honest, is their pay, benefits, seniority etc., and the consequence or the possibility to move to other airlines.

the POS of the CPP is a fast track to major and for those who can't afford the initial training of their own.

they prepared a FULL meal (all ratings ) for sell, of course you have to pay. OR you can cook your own FULL meal for sell and let them purchase it form you!

to a certain extent, the topic brought up is just another version of the expat vs local package debate that has existed long before the International Cadet scheme came along, though i believe CX is currently coming up with certain financial benefits to try to retain these expat cadets when they have enough hours/experience to go for greener pastures.

i hardly think expats will get ripped off by joing the CPP, given the program does give you a (free) headstart to an aviation career, and you aren't forced to sign a life-time bond anyway. as for loyalty to CX... under normal circumstances, i can't see there would be any such sentiment on part of the expat ex-cadet. not unless CX suddenly becomes a warm and loving employer and pays you richly, that is.

Yes after three years it becomes a rip off, HKG is too expensive, without housing you will soon realize, however it is free training so get in and when you have had enough leave. Current cadets are fighting for better conditions, the more cadets will result in a bigger voice and or nothing speaks louder than people leaving. So CX will have to improve the package if they want Int cadets to stay.

Well
 

And when u say expat cadets, u mean a western cadet?

The expat vs local package...ok...people leave home (country of birth) to apply for a job in HK and getting pay more...i think that's kinda a fair game compare to the now the...'you are leaving your country of birth to work in HK without expat benefits if u remain in CX.'


Well i guess my question is...are people really all that interested or should i say long term committed in joining CX when people are getting paid less than a person that came from the same country or race as you? I know there are western cadets that have joined CX well before this international scheme, but cant say they are the same...because they hold a HKID...and im certain they hold a HKID because their parents had made HK their new home well before he/she had the interest in Aviation.

I think the reality is...once you have your hours....who is going to limit themselves to earning less than a real expat would...would you?

Cheers

not just "western" cadets, but all LEPs. there was a post not too far back about CX arranging for additional financial benefits for future cadet graduates, have a look.

i think the ideal question to ask yourself would be:
when you apply for the CXCPP, or when the decision to become a commercial pilot was made for that matter, was your aspiration to become an AIRLINE pilot, or a CATHAY pilot?

Your question is a valid one however I am not so sure about the intention of your question.

There are many valid points being made here in this post and I am not going to reiterate it... however, knowing that a CEP (cadet entry pilot, as it is now call) only has a non-binding bond of 6 years, any CEP can leave whenever they feel that they can not reach their personal goal / target with CX. This is something that the CX management will have to work on if they indeed want to retain such CEP in the company after a few years of service. And this apply to both local and international applicants, because just to remind you, there were many so call local applicants who has overseas passport and are citizen of an overseas country as well. It just happens that they have a HKID card, so they are eligible to apply to the cadet scheme before it is opened to international applicants. So in reality, there might not be so much of a different between the local vs international group of cadets.

As suggested in this post that there have been talk about housing to CEP, but I think it is important to note that it is just talks / rumor. Is it going to happen? Nobody knows, but I will not bank on it until it actually happens. So when you are making your decision to join the cadet scheme or not, I think it is wise to make a decision based on no housing assistant to CEP.

Finally, I think you need to ask yourself the ultimate question: "Why are you doing this (when you apply to the cadet scheme)?" I think if you can answer that honestly with yourself, you will know if the cadet scheme is right for you or not.

Just my two cents.

wowpeter

I agree with your post 100%. I've recently been suessful in obtaining an interview with CX for the cadet program in Brisbane. I do hold a CPL and an MECIR already yet hve been told the 60 week program will still have to be completed. So lets take a look at what were talking about here. People whom are asking about housing etc need to perhaps harden up or go and get a law degree. I don't care about housing benefits nor am I worried about salaries. To some that may sound incredibly stupid but lets stand back and take a look at whats being offered.

Training that is provided free of charge with an airline that has won the skytrax "WORLDS BEST AIRLINE" award 3 times in the last 10 years and then an oppourtunity to fly their almost brand new inter-continential heavy jet aircraft.

You have to start as a small fish in a big pond and work your arse off to become a big fish. Yes it will take time and some serious effort but thats the nature of the beast. I fly because I love it not because of salaries or benefits involved. If you cant make ends meet on an S/O salary, either earn more ie second job, or spend less ie smaller or shared living costs. I personally would do anything I need to do to be that small fish.

clinty83:

'nuff said!:ok: though i'm sure EPASZ would like to know if you are willing to stay in CX when you are a big fish...

in my case the CEP salary package that CX provides is more than enough for me to make a living on, even when i have a wife, kids, and retired parents. the salary may not be equal to that of direct-entry pilots, and this is unfair in its own way. but no doubt, you wouldn't need to live in a cardboard box with your salary, especially when you look around you and see so many locals in other walks of life, living on half a CX pilot's salary and still getting by. i don't see why we can't... it is merely a matter of lifestyle and whether you are willing to adjust or not.

for me personally, achieving a dream is priceless. but when you know you can live reasonably well with your pay check, then it just makes you even hungrier to realize that aspiration. and yes, EPASZ, my chance of staying in CX after making F/O or above is pretty high, being a street-raised HKG local. ;)

Food for thought for those who think it is a raw deal:
 

By joining the CPP you are effectively bypassing the initial 5 years plus of GA/regional carrier time. This adds five years onto your career in a major. You have to realise that these extra five years will be on a senior captain salary. Have a look at the pay scales and you figure out if it is worth it.

.
 

Is to realise CX has changed the definition of Expatriate...because from your post, i know expat remumeration is no longer needed for people that has a dream for flying in a big airline but couldnt do so in other ways. And flying is all a DREAM! hah...yeah...it is....at the beginning...

Im sure after a few years in CX you won't feel bad about the DESO (being at lower rank, working in the same company, and perhaps working away from home as well)next to you earning the same amount as you when you are a JFO , because you have to thank CX for letting you achieve your dream n skip all those tough road.

There are no idiots out there applying for CX....like u said...its all about achieving a dream that's all.

The scheme is gold like you said. Because it is first of its kind...N I could only say, great move for CX to have introduce this scheme to international candidates during this finanical crisis to help save billions of allowances in the future.

Triplespool123,

If your dream for a career is to make the bunks and sit in the jumpseat for the next 5+ years, then I'd hate to see your nightmares.

The majority of us do it for the money. We're just lucky we enjoy our job.

You seem to have the idea the only way to progress in aviation is to pay your way into jobs, or take substandard deals without thinking long term for your career. Have you heard of hard work. What about starting small and working your way up through the industry, or do you have to start on a widebody jet as anything else would be below your standards.

Why don't you go down to West Africa and get some experience. Then you can tell us how your dream is progressing.


FCG

I am concerned some here may not have done their due diligence in actually determining the real cost of living in Hong Kong. Remember that this is one of the most expensive cities in the world to live and the standard of accommodation isn’t what you are use to in the west. A family of four in a gross 1000 ft² apartment, 870 ft² net, when you have probably been use to 4x this space can make or break a family. Remember you get to get away three times a month but your wife is trapped here in cramped living conditions with the kids. If you are single it may be just doable if you live like a hermit but if you are married with children then this is a serious issue. Remember your first year salary is only HK$33179.00 per/month.

Cathay will make back in four years your training cost by not paying you an accommodation allowance. You unfortunately will be paying for it though for the rest of your CX career.

Current upgrades are blowing out considerably.
SO → JFO = 5 years
JFO → FO = 1 year
FO → Capt = 10 years

To be able to get a permanent base you have to be a minimum rank of FO so it will take you at least 6 years, assuming a base is available to go on one. Currently almost all bases are full from DEFO recruitment.

Lastly cadets here are trying their utmost to improve their conditions of service. The rest of us including DESO’s DEFO’s etc are struggling just to keep what we have. If you come here with the attitude some seem to have here that money isn’t important you won’t win any friends.

404 Titan,

thank you for your insight. the picture you have painted is that the entry-level salary package cannot possibly feed an expatriate family of 4, who are new to HKG. this is very true and i can only say that CX's LEP salary was set by assuming that the LEPs would live with their parents for a long long time!

but would this change if one were to keep the family at home for the first couple of years, and then bring them later when your salary package will have increased dramatically?

holdmetight

Possible but by having your family live in Australia you are now potentially exposing yourself to Australian tax. If you then combine this with commuting costs of about HK5000.00 per month you will be worse of, i.e. two houses etc etc etc.

Solare

I don’t have the time to do a proper reply now to your post but suffice to say what allowances are you talking about? If it is overnight allowances then you are dreaming. It is very rare that I come home with more than 20% of my allowances. Some places it isn’t enough at all. If you want to be anti-social sure and squirrel them away fine but life is going to be pretty boring, no friends and all.

As for the girls. You might think you are cool but let me fill you in. Most here will think you are a tool. It’s a shame you will have so many days off but with no spare cash dude you won’t be able to doing anything on them.

If you don’t believe me speak to some of the Hong Kong Airlines pilots to see what it is like to live in HK on a low salary.

Dear Epasz, 404 Titan, and Forward COG,

Thank you for your time in writing your posts because you guys have swayed me completely. Thank you.

You are right, I can not live in a shoebox, breathing in polution and living with 7million people on your doorstep whilst paying 50%+ of your salary for the privelige. I'm a pompous white westerner you see and hold myself classes above my asian friends. From what you are saying, I won't have enough money left over to pay for a couple of filipino maids to wipe my backside and cook my food :{

Also,the big shiney jets have never really appealed to me - at least not initialy. Botswana looks good though flying turbo-props on a few thousand a year. Hopefully I will be lucky enough to get that job (in this current climate) having already got my parents to re-mortgage their house to the tune of £80K.

Having built a few thousand hours in West Africa and being apart form my family for a few years, I should be able to get a job flying with the Worlds Favourite Airline - British Airways. I believe Skytrax were going to put BA as the No.1 airline for the last 5 years running but due to politics and our foreign police synergies with the USA, it would not have looked so good for Skytrax to do so.

If I can't get into BA, then I'll dig around for a bit to find 30K to fly for Ryanair - hopefully I have some left over to pay for my uniform, and 6 months accomodation during line training.

Guys, thanks very much. I'm going to call CX HR department now to withdraw my application. Who needs £150K worth of traning when I can pay for it all myself?

T123

Idiot
 

Triplespool123, You are an idiot.

Don't worry about withdrawing your application I'm quite confident you'll get weeded out in the first interview.

I won't bother giving you any advice, as some of the other informed and experienced PPRuNe posters have because you seem to know it all about Hong Kong and Cathay Pacific..

Cronus

Cronie,

Thank you for engaging in name-calling. Really professional.

If my post did make me look like an idiot due to factual innacuracies or just the way I came across in an, admitedly, sardonic fashion then accept my apologies. i found it the best way to reply to some of the posters here.

However I would be grateful for specific inaccuracies in my post to be explained.

triplespool123,

I do agree 100% with what your saying. I personally do not understand the PPRuNers that avoid airlines because of the low or the non-existant benefits etc.

I would however like to know if ANYBODY who posts their thoughts on here are actually CX pilots "on the inside".

If you are on the inside as a successful SO but don't like the conditions, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave ASAP so it increases my chances of stage 2 testing.

i don't see how EPASZ, 404, Cronus and FCG are moaning - they are simply giving advice from an insiders point of view. why all the flak?

while wannabes and entry-level pilots should not be focusing on the amount of financial renumeration he/she will be getting, it shouldn't be totally ignored either. i did mention earlier that it is possible to live happily on a LEP salary in HKG, if one was willing to adapt. however having said that, it isn't easy either and it can be a bit of a struggle. i come from HKG and i know this for a fact, the high cost of living here is not a joke, even for people who don't lead particularly extravagant lifestyles. and the fact that one day you will get married, have kids and retired parents only exacerbates the problem.

for most wannabes, free training and the chance to fly shiny heavy metal is definitely enticing, and the emotion that comes with this opportunity can cloud out all other factors that one must also contemplate. i can understand this because i am a wannabe myself. but be careful though... don't say you weren't warned. living in HKG can be tough.

Guys,

I apologise if I have come across as a little sarcastic but what annoys me more than anything are people coming up with problems and not solutions.

What I mean by that is rather than coming on here and treating people like they haven't done their research, why don't you come up with other options?

Your posts basically had the angle that I shouldn't take up the CPP scheme. Ok then, can you tell me what other options I have that is on-par with what CX offer.

Triplespool123

"For the last couple of years, I have been on PPrune reading the constant whining and crying from people like you wishing back to the "good old days". And you know what, I'm glad we had this recession. It means the likes of you lot that frequent PPrune with your tiresome complaints will finally leave/get pushed out of the industry. I won't be too upset about not "winning" freindship with you."

Pretty arrogant statement. If you look at my history on this forum I have helped more wannabes get into CX than hindered them. If you want to come here that is fine. I have laid out the facts from experience knowing what it costs to live here in Hong Kong. If you want to ignore my advise then that is up to you. It's not up to us to give you solutions. holdmetight presented a possible solution to me about being a commuter. I then highlighted the tax implications of this. I didn't fluf the answer up. I suggest you get off your ass like he has done and ask us some serious questions. I will give you an honest answer if I can.

Cronus

What our friend Triplespool123, Matt.V and clinty83 don't realise is that some that post here are very close to the recruitment process. It won't take very long at the interview process to weed those out that haven't given any thought to the living costs in HK and what they would do if they couldn't handle them.

clinty83

If you don't think I work for CX I suggest you go back and look at my past post. I've posted here for quite some time. For the record I am a little bit more senior than an SO. I also love working here so I'm not going to leave any time soon. All some of us here are trying to do is highlight the difficulties of living here with no housing allowance. So please ask me questions. I will answer the best I can.

Matt.V

That is your choice. If you want to do something contructive for your selection process you could ask me some questions. I'm not trying to hinder you coming here. I honestly would like to help you if I could.

Help
 

Clinty83, and others

I'm not going to be posting my CV on here but if you bothered to check my previous posts on PPRuNe, you'd see that I've helped many people in the past by posting advice on Forums and sending all my study notes from several CX interviews, to a Hotmail account, for anybody to email to themselves and use.

My notes had come from internet searches, debriefs form peoples interviews etc. So I felt they were a shared document anyway.

I'm not sure of the Hotmail Account status now but suffice to say when I started my course many people I met joining susbequently had used my notes successfully for the interviews.

My last piece of advice on here for the Wannabes is people like 404 Titan know what they're talking about. I've followed his advice in the past. Gather all the information you can about Hong Kong, Cathay Pacific, the CEP program and aviation generally, to prepare yourself as best you can for the interview. Then look at what's offered, ask questions and if successful, make an informed decision.

Cronus out.

All you youngsters - just know that we were all in that boat before .

We were all young and keen and would take ANY job on a bigger faster plane. The problem is that 5 years down the line when you don't care about that shiny jet any more - THEN the conditions and pay become an issue - unfortunately its then too late....

That pretty much sums it up. Its always been that way and it will always be that way. Unfortunately cadet programs make this worse because they open the door to bigger exploitation of youngsters which in general lowers the bar for everybody.....

Nothing more to be said on this topic.

Lets get things straight
 

Guys,

I have read the responses and I am quite surprised at the people that have spoken out against what I have written and others of the same view.

Your responses have been "We are here to help you", "Ask us questions" etc. Well this is strange becuase the original post was nothing of the sort. Let us quote the original lines that made me respond the way I did:

The original poster gave NO advice whatsoever in his speech - just pure negatives which is why I came to the assumption that this was a failed CX candidate.

I have repeatedly asked posters here what other choices I have. Do any of you seriously think that I will not apply for the CPP worth a possible £150K (inc TR) just beacsue I don't get an allowance? Even though every other Hong Kong national-7 million of them- seem to survive?

None of u s came here originally asking how we would cope on a SO salary. So why are you all now coming here saying:

etc etc. None of us asked for advice. The original post was a speech detailing the negatives of the scheme and as of yet, the OP has refused to answer WHY he wrote it.

NO prospective CPP cadet, international or otherwise, came here seeking solutions or came to ask questions. Do you seriously think that I or anyone else will give up this opportunity of a lifetime just because I won't get a houseing allowance? Or becasue 50% of my salary will go to accomodation.

I'm sorry but no one has given advice here-AND, no one originally asked for it. :ugh:
If anyone here is prepared to give me £150K to pay for training myself, with the GUARANTEE of a job in 6-12 months after completion, then please send me the check and I won't apply for CX!

Come on guys!

I do however want to aplogise if I came across as too sardonic. But I despaired at the original post becasue it was nothing but showboating. Giving a speech when no one asked for it and which gave no advice whatsoever except to say "You're getting ripped off".

When an airline pays for me to train and gives me a salary at the end of it, then I am certainly not getting ripped off. The fact that Hong Kong is an expensive place to live is not Cathay Pacific's fault.

This industry owes me nothing.

I'm sorry if this view is considered niave by the more senior folk that have slowly seen their T&Cs reduce over the last 10 years. I genuinely mean that. I would feel the same and I honestly wish you well on a continued career or a career change if that is what it has come to.

But no one has the right to come here telling cadets that they "will be ripped off" when it is obviously so untrue beyond belief.

The End
 

Hence i got urs and some others attention with the rather extreme statement. And with ur view on this thread, it presents to other viewers what kinda person you are from the replies u have against me or against others.

All along...right from the beginning of the post...i have only mentioned I'd like to see what other peoples view are...but at no point did i say u're an idiot applying for the program plus there is no way in hell i could change anyone's dream with a couple of statements because back a few years ago, I too did something like a heated youngester would do...but realise it isn't all about dreams and shinny planes...

And the other thing is, people didn't post against u for no reason...they posted it because they disagree with ur view and thinking. Therefore, the reason why most insiders/experience folks spoken against u is that...they see the cadetship in a complete different angle than urs or others who has waited a billion years for this golden opportunity, so instead of ur one world one dream concept and think that the cadetship is gold to everyone in the industry...we have people like <yokebearer> who have mentioned...opening the door to a more global cadetship is not doing good to the industry. Hence, making it not very well accepted by some group of people.

However, Forum is just Forum, we are here to discuss or debate (in some case), but it is certainly not going to change people's dream (or ur dream in that matter)....but it could change people's view (including mine) on things...by reading or learning what others have to say (e.g. like what <Cronus> and <404Titan> has to say about living cost in HK without Expat benefits if u have a family overseas or a big debt behind ur back). Because in this aviation world...we cant just think flying is some sort of long lasting dream and that everyone should do this for as cheap as a Bus driver simply because it is a dream come true.

Goodluck with ur application.

Triplespool123

I didn't make the original post so I can't lay claim to that however I have offered to help where I can. That offer still stands.

I haven't said there is any choices. If I had the opportunity to do a similar course in 1986 when I learnt to fly I would have jumped at it. I would have taken on board though advise from people that work here in formulating what I would do to make ends meat in HK.

The CPP actualy costs about AUD$150K but I do understand that in the UK a similar course would cost GBP150K.

Hong Kong nations manage to live here because they live like locals not expats. It isn't uncommon for three generations though to live under one roof.

As for the rest of your post? Your attitude will show up in the interview process my friend. I politely suggest you pull your head in and accept my advice for what it is. Trying to help you get in by openning your eyes to what it will entail.

Epasz,

Let me consider some of your points.

Ok simple maths here.

Scenario 1:
I want to fly the big jets (apologies to those with a penchant for TPs and who enjoy "real flying"). I have no no money to pay for the training. It would be selfish of me to get my parents to remortgage their house.

Scenario 2:
A lovely airline called Cathay Pacific are offering to pay for my traning, and pay for a type rating on the "big jets" I speak of. Then pay me a salary for doing so.

So Espaz, are you telling me that you guys "disgaree with my views and thinking" that Scenario 2 is the better option?

This Espaz is why you wrote what you did. This is the point of your thread. And you know what? I'm not going to have a go at you and others who think that. I accept this argument and I would feel the same. I have spent a long time on pprune reading posts from guys who have 20-30 years of experience.

They all say the same thing. Basically there are stary-eyed wannabees like me who will pay the likes of Mr O'leary £30K just so he can fly shiny jets and by-pass the GA method of working your way up from crop-sparying. Its is people like me that have caused "easyJet captains to be limited to 2 bottles of water" etc etc.

I get your argument. I honestly do. Because this sets a precedent doesn't it? Ex-pats like me who are prepared to wave-away allowances could be dangerous for current ex-pat pilots in Cathay Pacific who are currently receiving these allowances.

But, I will not apologise for taking this opportunity. And you coming on here saying

is very insulting to the current cadets who worked bloody hard to get through the stages and are now in traning spending 60 weeks away from their family. It is also very shallow to indirectly suggest that interntional applicants are "getting ripped-of" because they should be getting allowances whilst their Hong Kong colleagues of the same age in the same training course are not.

404 Titan

Thank you for making my point in just one sentence. I need say no more.

Triplespool123

Ah but you leave out the next and most important sentence:

This is exactly how a great number of local cadets live in Hong Kong. Do you have a family you can shack up with in HK? If you are single you could probably look at sharing with other expat cadets. If you are married though this isn't really an option especially if you have kids.

CX stage 2
 

Hi all

I have a couple of questions if anyone can shed some light it would be much appreciated

1. What does stage 2 entail?

2. In my initial interview I was told even though I hold MECIR and CPL I will stll have to complete the 60 weeks. They also said a fast track course for licensed candidates is being put together. Does anyone know any details on this?

I am super keen to get ahead of the pack if successful in proceeding to stage 2.

Save $150K in training to pay it back 10 fold in loss of allowances. Sounds like a great deal.

Interesting discussions..
 

There's some good points being raised on this thread. Here's my two cents for whatever its worth.. (probably not much!)

Each to their own I say. The cadet program is not for everyone. Everyone's situation is different and everyone has their own goals and ambitions.

For me personally, I don't have the money to pay for a fixed wing CPL, instrument rating and all the rest. If I can get CP to pay for it and then gaurantee me a job at the end then its worth it. It also means bypassing flying GA stuff and gets you straight to the airlines. Awesome.
I dont have any debts, have no children and my partner is also working so spending a few years in Hong Kong earning a minimal wage is not much of a drama. I'm also from Adelaide originally so I'll have plenty of family support while I complete the initial training if required. I love flying and if I get a cadetship then CP will have a highly motivated and dedicated trainee on their hands.

However, if I was married with 3 kids and a dog, had a mortgage and my partner was unemployed then the cadet program would be unsuitable for me. Simple.

I guess everyone needs to do a little soul searching and consider their own financial/family obligations before applying for this program. If the conditions on offer are unsuitable for your personal situation then don't apply..:)

HK living costs
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen decent apartments for rent in Disco Bay from around HKD 7,000 a month for 1 bed, or 10,000 a month for 2 bed. Say 2 graduated cadets share a place in DB, HKD 5,000 a month each (inclusive of utilities) seems very reasonable on a salary of over 300,000 HKD (source PPJN/Savills Hong Kong).

As for other living costs I found HK cheaper than London on my last visit, but as a mere tourist I could be missing something there.

Having said that I can see how those with dependents would struggle to make ends meet, but if you are young and single and don't mind living in HK for a few years (after all, it's hardly a punishment posting) then this would surely be far more prudent then splashing out £100k+ on a course with no guarantee of a job at the end. I believe that is the point Triplespool is ramming home, if you want to go into flying then this is by far the most attractive option at present. I would challenge anyone to find a better alternative financially.

To the other posters, I do appreciate your extensive knowledge and input, and I'm sure there are some who will decide that without the housing allowance they cannot afford to go down this route. For myself, I believe it to be a sacrifice worth making. Again, that is based on my personal circumstances. Furthermore you can leave CX after 6 years with a 777/747/A330/A340 TR with an ICAO ATPL (please correct me if that is wrong) and move onto more lucrative work.

....however if you do choose to live in Mid-Levels and go boozing in Wanchai every night I'm sure the money wouldn't suffice!

Regards, kofk

Triplespool123

How about people that work for CX who all know the cadets are getting ripped off!

Yes it's a fantastic opportunity that not many get, however this doesn't mean CX can abuse those lucky few.

How about CX will pay for your flying training but you pay the money back plus a bit extra if need be for the company once you start earning money with the company? This would take approximately 3 years with no housing as an S/O and is the way many cadet programs run.

You seem happy for CX to take this advantage for the next possible 40yrs of employment with CX. Management will love you!

How would you feel after 20yrs in CX sitting on the flight deck as Capt and the direct entry 3rd yr S/O gets paid more than you do? Actually you are the lowest paid pilot on the flight deck, and will always be unless flying with another CEP! One day as a training Capt you also will train guy/girls who get paid more than you. That makes perfect sense :D

Basically just be informed that the international cadet program while a fantastic beginning may lead to unforeseen issues in the future.

Some of you may end up leaving CX for better pay/lifestyle for you and your family or remain and continue the fight for better conditions.

What scheme in the world, what job in the world, and where in the world would you ever be able to provide for the above personal situation on Day 1 of a totally new job? Especially after the company paid for your training, food, and accomodation for over a year?

while expensive, the cost of living in HKG doesn't really compare with Europe. just be wary though, it is constantly on the rise as we speak. in a previous post i mentioned that it is possible to live in HKG on a CEP basic salary. that is given you are willing to/know how to assimilate in with the HKG local way of life, which is significantly cheaper than if you go to LKF and wanchai for your dinner and nightlife.

i have heard of ex-cadets leaving CX after less than 6 years, my understanding is there is no bond in the CX cadet contract due to its illegality in HKG. not sure about getting a full ATPL though, given you start off with 0 hours in Adelaide and then you do ~4 years of S/O (P2X) time which does not count for much, so you might not get 1500 hours to unfreeze your ATPL within 6 years. i stand to be corrected though.

so the question really is how CX will entice these international cadets to stay with the company on the long-term... as for wannabes, caveat emptor! do your research, and if you know what to expect and are prepared to make sacrifices, then why not give it a go?

this is a tough situation in most circumstances, but encountering this in a foreign land would only exacerbate the problem.