Career Options for Singaporean in Singapore - Sponsored or Self Sponsored
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Laser eye surgery Q & A
I would like to thank 9M and flying.monkeyz. Your advice and that website reference were spot on. Appreciate the (quick) assistance.
Hope it doesn't sound like I am pushing my luck, but might any of you be aware of the rules on refractive surgery in mainland China, Korea or Japan? Do you have any friends that have applied for work in those areas? I started a Thread on PPrune Asia to solicit input for these areas.
(Ours is a unique business. Pilots always have to do research for Regulations, jobs and weather. Occasionally we have to behave like a detective or journalist tracking down a story.)
tcw3
Hope it doesn't sound like I am pushing my luck, but might any of you be aware of the rules on refractive surgery in mainland China, Korea or Japan? Do you have any friends that have applied for work in those areas? I started a Thread on PPrune Asia to solicit input for these areas.
(Ours is a unique business. Pilots always have to do research for Regulations, jobs and weather. Occasionally we have to behave like a detective or journalist tracking down a story.)
tcw3
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@bolueeleh, 100% behind you with what you said. Not sponsored don't do if you're Singaporean.
The saying "if you at first you don't succeed, try, try again" only holds true if one stops at apply for cadetships. Getting your license, then trying over and over again to get a job overseas to build time to finally come back to Singapore? 1% chance.
Save that money and don't put yourself in a potentially quarter-million dollar hole. You already have a HDB flat to be on the hook for.
The saying "if you at first you don't succeed, try, try again" only holds true if one stops at apply for cadetships. Getting your license, then trying over and over again to get a job overseas to build time to finally come back to Singapore? 1% chance.
Save that money and don't put yourself in a potentially quarter-million dollar hole. You already have a HDB flat to be on the hook for.
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I wanna ask (and I have my own sources of information on this too) if the local Singaporean flight charter companies are hiring. I am hearing conflicting reports on this.
I am asking about ST's fleet of Gulfstreams and King Airs and Learjets. Asia Aviation Company's N50LK and the other Challenger. Other Private Gulfstreams/Bombardiers/Embraers you see on the Charlie Bays.
Chiron Flight Services. They are Thai Reg'd but they run ops from Singapore. MyJets also has some ops here.
I am asking about ST's fleet of Gulfstreams and King Airs and Learjets. Asia Aviation Company's N50LK and the other Challenger. Other Private Gulfstreams/Bombardiers/Embraers you see on the Charlie Bays.
Chiron Flight Services. They are Thai Reg'd but they run ops from Singapore. MyJets also has some ops here.
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Hi SingaporeAirlines,
Last i heard i do not think they are hiring. Chiron i know only have maybe 3-4 pilots flying their lear. Sometimes they do hire but maybe only if they lose a pilot. Try finding out from them.
In another note, i find the tiger airways cadet scheme not a bad avenue if there are guys out there who do not mind self sponsoring. Anyone applied for this scheme already who wants to shed some light? Would greatly help. Thanks.
Last i heard i do not think they are hiring. Chiron i know only have maybe 3-4 pilots flying their lear. Sometimes they do hire but maybe only if they lose a pilot. Try finding out from them.
In another note, i find the tiger airways cadet scheme not a bad avenue if there are guys out there who do not mind self sponsoring. Anyone applied for this scheme already who wants to shed some light? Would greatly help. Thanks.
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Mynameisjon,
I do not totally agree with what you said. Although the risk is great for self sponsored pilots, it really depends on how passionate and persistent one wants to be a pilot. You have many guys out there who got their own licence and then begin to grumble about how they couldn't find a job.
Some gave up…some do not.
Some will try and find other aviation related job to upgrade their knowledge and wait for opportunities while surviving. I personally find this grp of guys the deserving ones who should be offered a job but it is always not a fair playing field in society.
I pity them and in the mean time also am very proud of them. I am one of those who didnt give up while upgrading myself. So that is why i want to help whoever i can and hopefully, that you, will make it in the future.
I do not totally agree with what you said. Although the risk is great for self sponsored pilots, it really depends on how passionate and persistent one wants to be a pilot. You have many guys out there who got their own licence and then begin to grumble about how they couldn't find a job.
Some gave up…some do not.
Some will try and find other aviation related job to upgrade their knowledge and wait for opportunities while surviving. I personally find this grp of guys the deserving ones who should be offered a job but it is always not a fair playing field in society.
I pity them and in the mean time also am very proud of them. I am one of those who didnt give up while upgrading myself. So that is why i want to help whoever i can and hopefully, that you, will make it in the future.
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Aspiring pilots.
Wake up n smell the flowers. They don't have to be roses.
The cadetships aren't the only way into a fulfilling and rewarding career in aviation. Research and do your homework, go overseas for your flight education.
If you already have foreign licences, pack your bags, go to your neighbouring countries to bang on doors and hard-sell yourself.
Nobody said you had to only work in Singapore to be happy.
Having the pilots licence is a visa to apply for jobs elsewhere.
Also--- Do you have to be in a shiny jet at your first step in aviation?
Harden up princesses. Have a cement pill.
Start from the bottom. Then maybe after some small aircraft flying job will you appreciate that theres nothing wrong with starting from the bottom, and where hand flying is real flying, not jumping in and connecting autopilot at 700feet until minimums.
Unless that is what you want from the start, seriously, theres more to aviation just "flying the big jets". Do some soul searching--- why are you a pilot? For the $? Prestige? Passion?
If $$$ is all you are looking for, seriously, pilots earn a fraction of what doctors, lawyers, bankers, accountants etc earn in a fortnight.
Wake up n smell the flowers. They don't have to be roses.
The cadetships aren't the only way into a fulfilling and rewarding career in aviation. Research and do your homework, go overseas for your flight education.
If you already have foreign licences, pack your bags, go to your neighbouring countries to bang on doors and hard-sell yourself.
Nobody said you had to only work in Singapore to be happy.
Having the pilots licence is a visa to apply for jobs elsewhere.
Also--- Do you have to be in a shiny jet at your first step in aviation?
Harden up princesses. Have a cement pill.
Start from the bottom. Then maybe after some small aircraft flying job will you appreciate that theres nothing wrong with starting from the bottom, and where hand flying is real flying, not jumping in and connecting autopilot at 700feet until minimums.
Unless that is what you want from the start, seriously, theres more to aviation just "flying the big jets". Do some soul searching--- why are you a pilot? For the $? Prestige? Passion?
If $$$ is all you are looking for, seriously, pilots earn a fraction of what doctors, lawyers, bankers, accountants etc earn in a fortnight.
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@rotatejunkie - low hour pilot = turned away for work visa any where in the world. except indonesia where you have the grease the wheels.
And don't suggest Susi Air. Flying with them is tantamount to suicide these days.
Honestly stop asking people to waste money on air tickets to knock on doors overseas when the chance is 1%.
Almost every country in the world no longer considers pilots "skilled immigrants", and to even qualify for work visas, you need to have thousands of hours.
I've seen plenty of guys fly to Jakarta to look for jobs, only to hear "sorry no foreign pilots" or "we'll get back to you".
And don't suggest Susi Air. Flying with them is tantamount to suicide these days.
Honestly stop asking people to waste money on air tickets to knock on doors overseas when the chance is 1%.
Almost every country in the world no longer considers pilots "skilled immigrants", and to even qualify for work visas, you need to have thousands of hours.
I've seen plenty of guys fly to Jakarta to look for jobs, only to hear "sorry no foreign pilots" or "we'll get back to you".
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@jon
What a typical Singaporean Spoilt brat-on-a-silver-platter attitude. Have you contributed anything constructive?
Isn't 1% a good enough reason to chase the dream?
How much are Tiger n Jetstar tix to Jakarta these days? Conservatively $100 return? Maybe stay in a hotel a nite or two. Transport included, maybe spend a total of $500 for a shot at the dream?
Has ANYONE come down to knock on doors humbly requesting information on recruitment?
Well I have. I have a jet job in line. Because I did go the extra mile.
Read the facts about SusiAir, don't go about yakking off on your amateur mouth.
So unless you are supporting 9M-'s thread, i suggest you tone it down or be more encouraging to the rest of the SG-wannabes.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
There are so many guys I have heard of knocking on doors, and it worked out for them (heavy jet). They are from different countries and no where as near as SG.
Two days ago, i spoke to a pilot with $&@%. Before coming to Jakarta, he has a turbo prop TR out of his own pocket, and he is fresh out of flight school. Two months ago turned up in Jakarta, knocked on doors, and on the spot got hired as they needed 3 crews. True story
"Its made from real plastic!"
What a typical Singaporean Spoilt brat-on-a-silver-platter attitude. Have you contributed anything constructive?
Isn't 1% a good enough reason to chase the dream?
How much are Tiger n Jetstar tix to Jakarta these days? Conservatively $100 return? Maybe stay in a hotel a nite or two. Transport included, maybe spend a total of $500 for a shot at the dream?
Has ANYONE come down to knock on doors humbly requesting information on recruitment?
Well I have. I have a jet job in line. Because I did go the extra mile.
Read the facts about SusiAir, don't go about yakking off on your amateur mouth.
So unless you are supporting 9M-'s thread, i suggest you tone it down or be more encouraging to the rest of the SG-wannabes.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
There are so many guys I have heard of knocking on doors, and it worked out for them (heavy jet). They are from different countries and no where as near as SG.
Two days ago, i spoke to a pilot with $&@%. Before coming to Jakarta, he has a turbo prop TR out of his own pocket, and he is fresh out of flight school. Two months ago turned up in Jakarta, knocked on doors, and on the spot got hired as they needed 3 crews. True story
"Its made from real plastic!"
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@9M
for me personally i tried everything in SGP from cadetship in SIA then FI in SYFC then direct FO application in LCC to lastly cadetship in LCC,
i know some of the ppl in those companies by referrals but still no joy (those referrals are mostly becoz of ex airforce connections, and yes, dont be naive, sgp flying circuit are dominated by ex airforce guys, i.e. chief pilot of so and so company are ex - SQN comdrs of so and so, thus they will pull in ex pilots of so and so SQN)
lastly can you PM me your seminar details? I wouldnt mind flying back just to meet ppl of same background and chit chat.
to the green eyed youngster out there reading this, 2 words - good degree
preferably good degree in physics, maths or science, SIA's mantra
for me personally i tried everything in SGP from cadetship in SIA then FI in SYFC then direct FO application in LCC to lastly cadetship in LCC,
i know some of the ppl in those companies by referrals but still no joy (those referrals are mostly becoz of ex airforce connections, and yes, dont be naive, sgp flying circuit are dominated by ex airforce guys, i.e. chief pilot of so and so company are ex - SQN comdrs of so and so, thus they will pull in ex pilots of so and so SQN)
lastly can you PM me your seminar details? I wouldnt mind flying back just to meet ppl of same background and chit chat.
to the green eyed youngster out there reading this, 2 words - good degree
preferably good degree in physics, maths or science, SIA's mantra
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rotatejunkie,
Nicely said. I have to agree on most of your points. Although one needs to be realistic, being positive you already won half the battle.
It is human nature to always look at the negative side of things. There are plenty of success stories but no one likes to mention them. Ever heard of a low hour guy who just graduated, slot his resume at the office door because it was closed when he went down. Got a call not long for a 320 job.
Anything is possible, one just have to firstly be Positive, Willing to do anything for the dream and lastly try to source for the best path towards the goal.
Cheers!
Nicely said. I have to agree on most of your points. Although one needs to be realistic, being positive you already won half the battle.
It is human nature to always look at the negative side of things. There are plenty of success stories but no one likes to mention them. Ever heard of a low hour guy who just graduated, slot his resume at the office door because it was closed when he went down. Got a call not long for a 320 job.
Anything is possible, one just have to firstly be Positive, Willing to do anything for the dream and lastly try to source for the best path towards the goal.
Cheers!
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@rotatejunkie, you can do all the name calling you want, but I'm not going to change my tune here just because you're too immature to have a proper debate without resorting to insults.
First off, I have a jet job. I went that extra mile. For me everything fell into place easily. I met the right people at the right time and was in the right places.
I also recognise the changes afloat in Indonesia, as well as that I'm extremely lucky to have what I have. I am that 1% I was talking about. In all honesty, I probably didn't even work half as hard as the next guy I beat for the job.
Not everyone is going to be lucky.
You talk about neighbouring countries with jobs?
Malaysia has protectionist laws for their pilots.
Indonesia.. Well I'll talk about that later.
Further out? Don't even dream about it.
If you got to ST Aerospace, MAYBE you get a flight instructor job once you're done. If you're okay with that, good on you. Make sure you get that CAAS license and NOT a CASA one.
Massey University? Do they STILL advertise than MOU with CAAS? No longer valid. Well at least you get a degree out of it. Maybe you can be a lecturer.
FAA? You will NEVER get a job in the US. You can try the great white north, it's only a 20 question conversion and then a float endorsement. Of course then again, it's become increasingly harder for those operators to get your the required work visas.
JAA? You'll have a really nice license, but you'll be in a bigger hole than everyone else. Europe has no jobs for non-EU pilots, so look elsewhere.
Well there's always Africa.
About Indonesia (the last stand of the foreign pilots)
I know the facts about Susi Air. I have a friend in Susi air, so why don't you take your attitude and shove it? As corrupt as the DGCA is in Indonesia, when they consider suspending an operator, it says something. You can blame the weather all you want, but flt ops dispatched the aircraft and the crew made the decision to go. It says something about company culture there.
1% good enough to plonk down almost 200k on a piece of paper that will not get you a job anywhere outside of a cockpit? No it's not. Not in Singapore when you don't have unemployment benefits.
200k in the whole is not a fun place to be. Bankruptcy is easy, but for most kids, their parents foot the bill. I don't think 1% chances are worth risking my parents retirement over.
Stop saying that you know people who went over and got jobs without showing the other side of the coin.
Look at India. It's precisely the "1%" chance that destroyed their industry and their workforce. No chance of a job, but people left and right saying "go for it. passion is all you need". Being part of the problem? Me? No. It's your "1% chance go for it" mentality that's the problem.
I would LOVE to say that if you keep at it long enough you'll land a job, but 99 out of 100 times you won't.
Turboprop jobs in Jakarta will disappear in a month or two once the recruitment agencies sign deals to exclusively recruit. Same thing happened for A320 and B737 jobs. Last year you could fly down here and hand them your resume and you'd get a call. No longer. Unless you have another 40k USD in your pocket, it's not going to happen.
I've been in your corner, rooting for the little guy to get their jobs, but the real world beckons.
Don't tell people to spend their parents hard earned money, or take out that 5% loan for a license. It is NOT worth it (unless you manage to convince SFC to let you in as a self-sponsored candidate). That is what I'm saying.
Get a degree, apply for a cadetship. If it doesn't work out, you tried. You can always get your PPL and on your own time when you've got a job that pays the bills.
First off, I have a jet job. I went that extra mile. For me everything fell into place easily. I met the right people at the right time and was in the right places.
I also recognise the changes afloat in Indonesia, as well as that I'm extremely lucky to have what I have. I am that 1% I was talking about. In all honesty, I probably didn't even work half as hard as the next guy I beat for the job.
Not everyone is going to be lucky.
You talk about neighbouring countries with jobs?
Malaysia has protectionist laws for their pilots.
Indonesia.. Well I'll talk about that later.
Further out? Don't even dream about it.
If you got to ST Aerospace, MAYBE you get a flight instructor job once you're done. If you're okay with that, good on you. Make sure you get that CAAS license and NOT a CASA one.
Massey University? Do they STILL advertise than MOU with CAAS? No longer valid. Well at least you get a degree out of it. Maybe you can be a lecturer.
FAA? You will NEVER get a job in the US. You can try the great white north, it's only a 20 question conversion and then a float endorsement. Of course then again, it's become increasingly harder for those operators to get your the required work visas.
JAA? You'll have a really nice license, but you'll be in a bigger hole than everyone else. Europe has no jobs for non-EU pilots, so look elsewhere.
Well there's always Africa.
About Indonesia (the last stand of the foreign pilots)
I know the facts about Susi Air. I have a friend in Susi air, so why don't you take your attitude and shove it? As corrupt as the DGCA is in Indonesia, when they consider suspending an operator, it says something. You can blame the weather all you want, but flt ops dispatched the aircraft and the crew made the decision to go. It says something about company culture there.
1% good enough to plonk down almost 200k on a piece of paper that will not get you a job anywhere outside of a cockpit? No it's not. Not in Singapore when you don't have unemployment benefits.
200k in the whole is not a fun place to be. Bankruptcy is easy, but for most kids, their parents foot the bill. I don't think 1% chances are worth risking my parents retirement over.
Stop saying that you know people who went over and got jobs without showing the other side of the coin.
Look at India. It's precisely the "1%" chance that destroyed their industry and their workforce. No chance of a job, but people left and right saying "go for it. passion is all you need". Being part of the problem? Me? No. It's your "1% chance go for it" mentality that's the problem.
I would LOVE to say that if you keep at it long enough you'll land a job, but 99 out of 100 times you won't.
Turboprop jobs in Jakarta will disappear in a month or two once the recruitment agencies sign deals to exclusively recruit. Same thing happened for A320 and B737 jobs. Last year you could fly down here and hand them your resume and you'd get a call. No longer. Unless you have another 40k USD in your pocket, it's not going to happen.
I've been in your corner, rooting for the little guy to get their jobs, but the real world beckons.
Don't tell people to spend their parents hard earned money, or take out that 5% loan for a license. It is NOT worth it (unless you manage to convince SFC to let you in as a self-sponsored candidate). That is what I'm saying.
Get a degree, apply for a cadetship. If it doesn't work out, you tried. You can always get your PPL and on your own time when you've got a job that pays the bills.
Last edited by mynameisjon; 17th Aug 2012 at 07:48.
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My side
Gents,
What a great thread to start..
Anyway,I'm your standard Malay uncle number 2..lol same story, SIA reject, did license in Oz, spent 1 yr looking and trying for that airline job..gave up, went into GA flying in Indonesia..still here after 3.5 years. Goal is still to be a pilot for an airline.
Would be great to attend the talk. However won't I won't be able to attend the one in August, maybe the next one in the near future?
What a great thread to start..
Anyway,I'm your standard Malay uncle number 2..lol same story, SIA reject, did license in Oz, spent 1 yr looking and trying for that airline job..gave up, went into GA flying in Indonesia..still here after 3.5 years. Goal is still to be a pilot for an airline.
Would be great to attend the talk. However won't I won't be able to attend the one in August, maybe the next one in the near future?
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Hi sq906,
Nice to hear from you. Care to share a little more on what type of GA you flying in Indonesia?
Regarding the talk would be nice to have you join us in the future. Could you email me so that i can update you for the next session. Cheers!
Nice to hear from you. Care to share a little more on what type of GA you flying in Indonesia?
Regarding the talk would be nice to have you join us in the future. Could you email me so that i can update you for the next session. Cheers!
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9M....... Another good job here in encouraging potential flyers..... Am really amazed at the dedication you have to the craft......keep up the good work here and at "dream of flight"..... Happy landings
P/s... Did you know the kid who crashed a few weeks ago in Johor??? Any post mortem on reasons for crash????
P/s... Did you know the kid who crashed a few weeks ago in Johor??? Any post mortem on reasons for crash????
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Wannabes,
Dont let negative suggestions deter you from realising your full potential.
Unlike someone who's been lucky all the way through his job placement, if you dont try, you wont know until you do.
Don't spend away your folks' nestegg. Don't be ignorant, naive nor stupid. If you can afford it, go for it. "Be realistic, be practical." well my hairy beanbag to that.
I will not allow myself to get old and wrinkly and imagine what could have been.
I spent my 20s and early 30s earning for flight school fees. Didnt use daddy's $. I hav'nt looked back since.
Everytime I jump in the cockpit, I feel exactly where I belong.
Did i suggest everyone who came to Indonesia, knocked on doors and left with a job? Every industry has a window of opportunity. Who cares about India? They screwed it up big time from over expansion. A case of too much too soon.
Jon, You're quite a sourpuss aye? Now that you're in the shiny jet, you're discouraging others to follow the path?
"My friend this, my friend that". Hey muppet, Ive been in Indonesia for 2yrs, somehow being the insider trumps your hearsay.
Every time a flight is good to go, it is the PIC's final decision to depart or not. Having missionitis WILL kill you. The SusiAir pilots have pireps, weather reports as well as just plain and simple judgement to decide.
Again, don't spread rumours about facts you seem to know.
Right Jon, get out of the limelight please.
If all you can think of is getting into a shiny jet at first step and if you dont make it, you only have yourself to blame for not lowering your expectations a little.
I have actual 'friends' in Sriwijaya(B737), LionAir(B737), WingsAir(ATR72), Merpati(MA60 & TwinOtter), Batavia(B737), AirAsia(A320),SusiAir(Caravan &PA180Avanti), --- these guys all joined with zero commercial hours.
"Living the dream.".
Dont let negative suggestions deter you from realising your full potential.
Unlike someone who's been lucky all the way through his job placement, if you dont try, you wont know until you do.
Don't spend away your folks' nestegg. Don't be ignorant, naive nor stupid. If you can afford it, go for it. "Be realistic, be practical." well my hairy beanbag to that.
I will not allow myself to get old and wrinkly and imagine what could have been.
I spent my 20s and early 30s earning for flight school fees. Didnt use daddy's $. I hav'nt looked back since.
Everytime I jump in the cockpit, I feel exactly where I belong.
Did i suggest everyone who came to Indonesia, knocked on doors and left with a job? Every industry has a window of opportunity. Who cares about India? They screwed it up big time from over expansion. A case of too much too soon.
Jon, You're quite a sourpuss aye? Now that you're in the shiny jet, you're discouraging others to follow the path?
"My friend this, my friend that". Hey muppet, Ive been in Indonesia for 2yrs, somehow being the insider trumps your hearsay.
Every time a flight is good to go, it is the PIC's final decision to depart or not. Having missionitis WILL kill you. The SusiAir pilots have pireps, weather reports as well as just plain and simple judgement to decide.
Again, don't spread rumours about facts you seem to know.
Right Jon, get out of the limelight please.
If all you can think of is getting into a shiny jet at first step and if you dont make it, you only have yourself to blame for not lowering your expectations a little.
I have actual 'friends' in Sriwijaya(B737), LionAir(B737), WingsAir(ATR72), Merpati(MA60 & TwinOtter), Batavia(B737), AirAsia(A320),SusiAir(Caravan &PA180Avanti), --- these guys all joined with zero commercial hours.
"Living the dream.".