Has the Short Course for CPL/F-ATPL been approve yet?
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Blue thanks for sticking up.
CxPrune: I'm really lost first at how you can call them prostitutes. That's too much! Cadets are doing basically what anyone else did to become a pilot at a major air carrier. You get your training, which they will do for a year and a half. (quicker than many). The only diff is that most have to go to a regional or instruct or do some sort of "other" flying to gain their hours. Cadets will be able to jump in to Cathay (or any other airline that has a cadet programme) and begin work. There is no lowering of standards for those who are already there. I'm trying to figure out cxprune, how having a second officer lowers a FO and Capt standards at the airline. The FO and Capt are not sacrificing anything nor are they losing any pay by having an SO on board. And of course the company is going to capitalize on this. People who don't have the training don't deserve more pay. But from where I live, cadets start out earning triple what a regional airline pilot will make. And as a cadet progresses in the company, their pay will increase; just like with any other company.
You say you worked very hard for your hours and I have no doubt that you did. EVERYONE DOES! So why would you think that the cadets are getting a free pass? Or that they are working for free? They are working just as hard to get their hours and they have the same goal of getting to a major carrier.
I have three friends who are SO's, and know a few FO's and Capt at Cathay. What you are saying is completely false. SO's are not nearly hated by even an eighth of their peers. There may be a few Capt and FO's who are not thrilled, but that's no different than any other airline, or industry for that matter. Here there are capt that don't like FO's for whatever reason and there are FO's that don't like Capt. THATS JUST PEOPLE! But the majority do not mind Second Officers, especially when this program as been around since 1988.
As for the short course, what is your issue. This course is for people who have already established themselves in the aviation industry and have at least 250 hrs. These people have also worked hard (just like you did) to get where they are. There is nothing wrong with having a reduced course for these individuals.
Good luck to everyone going for the CPP. Don't be discouraged by people trying to block your path. They are just speed-bumps.
CxPrune: I'm really lost first at how you can call them prostitutes. That's too much! Cadets are doing basically what anyone else did to become a pilot at a major air carrier. You get your training, which they will do for a year and a half. (quicker than many). The only diff is that most have to go to a regional or instruct or do some sort of "other" flying to gain their hours. Cadets will be able to jump in to Cathay (or any other airline that has a cadet programme) and begin work. There is no lowering of standards for those who are already there. I'm trying to figure out cxprune, how having a second officer lowers a FO and Capt standards at the airline. The FO and Capt are not sacrificing anything nor are they losing any pay by having an SO on board. And of course the company is going to capitalize on this. People who don't have the training don't deserve more pay. But from where I live, cadets start out earning triple what a regional airline pilot will make. And as a cadet progresses in the company, their pay will increase; just like with any other company.
You say you worked very hard for your hours and I have no doubt that you did. EVERYONE DOES! So why would you think that the cadets are getting a free pass? Or that they are working for free? They are working just as hard to get their hours and they have the same goal of getting to a major carrier.
I have three friends who are SO's, and know a few FO's and Capt at Cathay. What you are saying is completely false. SO's are not nearly hated by even an eighth of their peers. There may be a few Capt and FO's who are not thrilled, but that's no different than any other airline, or industry for that matter. Here there are capt that don't like FO's for whatever reason and there are FO's that don't like Capt. THATS JUST PEOPLE! But the majority do not mind Second Officers, especially when this program as been around since 1988.
As for the short course, what is your issue. This course is for people who have already established themselves in the aviation industry and have at least 250 hrs. These people have also worked hard (just like you did) to get where they are. There is nothing wrong with having a reduced course for these individuals.
Good luck to everyone going for the CPP. Don't be discouraged by people trying to block your path. They are just speed-bumps.
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"Good luck to everyone going for the CPP. Don't be discouraged by people trying to block your path. They are just speed-bumps"
Thanks @bizzle284 - you're indeed very encouraging
Thanks @bizzle284 - you're indeed very encouraging
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As I am one of the first ones to be denied direct entry to CX due to the int'l Cadet scheme, I should be bitter and upset. But am I? No. Why, because I would've taken the opportunity myself if offered when I had a wet CPL and less than 300 hrs.
Yes, the T&C are worse than they were 5 years ago, which were worse than 10 years ago, which were worse than 20 years ago. Can't exactly go back and demand the A-scale now can we? Pilots starting out have heard of the good old times, but unfortunately those times are long gone. CX is no more or less fair than any other company for offering less to do the same job. That is the nature of corporations. It's up to the individual seeking the job to make the call based on his/her circumstances, not based on how things used to be for someone already employed by the company. The only way CX, as any other airline, will bring back the "good old times", is if the "bad current times" are not turning a profit.
Captains who are currently retiring from the 777 or -400 at United, as well as from other U.S. and int'l legacies, got on with no more than a driver's license in their wallet. Don't hear them being called prostitutes.
Yes, the T&C are worse than they were 5 years ago, which were worse than 10 years ago, which were worse than 20 years ago. Can't exactly go back and demand the A-scale now can we? Pilots starting out have heard of the good old times, but unfortunately those times are long gone. CX is no more or less fair than any other company for offering less to do the same job. That is the nature of corporations. It's up to the individual seeking the job to make the call based on his/her circumstances, not based on how things used to be for someone already employed by the company. The only way CX, as any other airline, will bring back the "good old times", is if the "bad current times" are not turning a profit.
Captains who are currently retiring from the 777 or -400 at United, as well as from other U.S. and int'l legacies, got on with no more than a driver's license in their wallet. Don't hear them being called prostitutes.
Last edited by T-Mass; 19th May 2010 at 17:57.
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cxprune: Perhaps I do only have 'half a brain', as you so eloquently put it. However, my 'half' seems to be operating much better than your 'whole'.
As for marching into NR's office, perhaps you should practice your reading comprehension. I implied that, an upstanding aviator like yourself, selflessly looking out for the benefits and conditions of others (including Cadets), marched straight upstairs to the DFO's office, where you argued your grievance in person. Perhaps it might be better to spell it out simply for you: of course this initiative comes from the top. However, if you have a problem with it, and wish to do something about it, grow the balls to speak to those who created the new conditions, not those merely stuck with a choice of those conditions (and employment at a major airline), or nothing. Why don't you come out of hiding in your 'forest', and let all see how you're willing to put your own foot where your mouth is.
As many other bright PPRUNE'rs pointed out since your last ignorant post, these Cadets are also working hard to achieve a position in a major airline. They should be allowed to make thier own decisions. It's utter crap that you suggest they will be, or are currently, 'hated by most'. Perhaps 'hated by most of the wankers like cxprune' would be a more accurate summary. Thankfully you're in the minority.
As for marching into NR's office, perhaps you should practice your reading comprehension. I implied that, an upstanding aviator like yourself, selflessly looking out for the benefits and conditions of others (including Cadets), marched straight upstairs to the DFO's office, where you argued your grievance in person. Perhaps it might be better to spell it out simply for you: of course this initiative comes from the top. However, if you have a problem with it, and wish to do something about it, grow the balls to speak to those who created the new conditions, not those merely stuck with a choice of those conditions (and employment at a major airline), or nothing. Why don't you come out of hiding in your 'forest', and let all see how you're willing to put your own foot where your mouth is.
As many other bright PPRUNE'rs pointed out since your last ignorant post, these Cadets are also working hard to achieve a position in a major airline. They should be allowed to make thier own decisions. It's utter crap that you suggest they will be, or are currently, 'hated by most'. Perhaps 'hated by most of the wankers like cxprune' would be a more accurate summary. Thankfully you're in the minority.
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I agree with all that talk about supply & demand, the market/economy is different; the industry is different, in fact the whole bloody world is not the same anymore. You can't simply compare the good old days with A-scale pay or what ever they use to call it...it's just aint gonna happen anymore.
What really disgusted me was the fact that someone out there (and you're talking about a possible "professional pilot") whose calling those potential applicants (CPL with 250hr or what ever) 'prostitutes' or "whores" simply because they wanna work for the airlines for what ever reason behind them. Are you saying we didn't try hard enough during our training, hence we don't deserve to work for the airline?? If so, fair
deal~~~ even though some of us are low hours CPL holders, but im sure we tried hard enough and deserved every single bloody hour we've got!! I don't usually get the **** 
just hate to see there are people out there who discourage others from applying that's all....
cheers~~ Good luck!!
KB
What really disgusted me was the fact that someone out there (and you're talking about a possible "professional pilot") whose calling those potential applicants (CPL with 250hr or what ever) 'prostitutes' or "whores" simply because they wanna work for the airlines for what ever reason behind them. Are you saying we didn't try hard enough during our training, hence we don't deserve to work for the airline?? If so, fair
deal~~~ even though some of us are low hours CPL holders, but im sure we tried hard enough and deserved every single bloody hour we've got!! I don't usually get the **** just hate to see there are people out there who discourage others from applying that's all....cheers~~ Good luck!!
KB
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Lets get back on topic folks..
Any update on when flight grading and/or course start is expected?
Any ideas on what to expect in flight grading? Similar to the current advanced course perhaps?
AJB
Any update on when flight grading and/or course start is expected?
Any ideas on what to expect in flight grading? Similar to the current advanced course perhaps?
AJB
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flight grading
Hey AJB.
last time I heard was to contact them early june as they may know more by then, this was three weeks ago. Also was told that at the moment they speculate july/august for flight grading and course in october. If anyone has heard anything more recent or has heard the same thing please let me know.
Hope to see you at Adelaide.
Cheers
northbound
last time I heard was to contact them early june as they may know more by then, this was three weeks ago. Also was told that at the moment they speculate july/august for flight grading and course in october. If anyone has heard anything more recent or has heard the same thing please let me know.
Hope to see you at Adelaide.
Cheers
northbound
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Hi guys,
This is the email I've got today. Does anyone know what it suppose to mean?
"Thank you for your interest in the pre-qualified course. Unfortunately we do not have any further update regarding the status of the pre-qualified course for CPL holders so far.
Best Regards,
Flight Crew Recruitment (Cadet Pilot)
Cathay Pacific Airway"
This is the email I've got today. Does anyone know what it suppose to mean?
"Thank you for your interest in the pre-qualified course. Unfortunately we do not have any further update regarding the status of the pre-qualified course for CPL holders so far.
Best Regards,
Flight Crew Recruitment (Cadet Pilot)
Cathay Pacific Airway"
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Flight Grading-Northbound
Hey Northbound,
I have heard the exact same as you have from CX. I received an initial call to inform me that I would attend sometime in July or August with the course to start in Oct or Nov. I then received a second call saying we have not firmed anything up yet and we will call you in June, but we have not forgotten about you. Still waiting for the call as well. Ill keep in mind to PM soon, ill be in your neck of the woods for the G8 G20 we can discuss more then if we have heard.
All- Any word on if the flight grading will differ, for now I am expecting some flying in the Grob and basic IFR in a B200 sim however since I have expereince, could it maybe be harder
Cheers
I have heard the exact same as you have from CX. I received an initial call to inform me that I would attend sometime in July or August with the course to start in Oct or Nov. I then received a second call saying we have not firmed anything up yet and we will call you in June, but we have not forgotten about you. Still waiting for the call as well. Ill keep in mind to PM soon, ill be in your neck of the woods for the G8 G20 we can discuss more then if we have heard.
All- Any word on if the flight grading will differ, for now I am expecting some flying in the Grob and basic IFR in a B200 sim however since I have expereince, could it maybe be harder
Cheers
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So is the frozen ATPL required for the short course or is the CPL with ME & 250 hrs adequate? This forum is going back and forth between the two (if you have an answer can you please list the source you received info from). On a related note - is there a separate place on the Cathay Pacific website to apply for the short course or is it the same as the Cadet Program application?
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good kick lol. Well yes the short course has been confirmed. It has been approved. I'm actually waiting for flight grading, was told that I was accepted for the short course starting either late november or early december. (of course this is as long as I pass stage 4) The dates are still in the working, but the recruiter is thinking more 2nd half of november. The short course will last for five months and all you need to have is 250hrs with a CPL. No atpl is needed. I'm so happy that it has been approved. Dont get me wrong, I would have done all my training again, just for the opportunity. But, as I've already gone through the training, I'm happy I won't have to redo it. Best of luck to everyone out there.
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What happened to the DESO's who passed an interview in 08 and never got hired? Did they receive a letter offering to go the cadet route instead, have they been canned or are they like the DEFOs still being told 2012?
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DESO program will be replaced with the Cadet Short course.
Long-term goal is that all hiring will be through the Cadet program.
However, it seems that we are getting short FO's, so it is possible that some DEFO hiring starts fairly soon in the regions where FO's are most needed. It looks like that the NA B744 freighter fleet has the most need for DEFO's. Also heard that holding pool applicants have to re-interview in Hong Kong.
Long-term goal is that all hiring will be through the Cadet program.
However, it seems that we are getting short FO's, so it is possible that some DEFO hiring starts fairly soon in the regions where FO's are most needed. It looks like that the NA B744 freighter fleet has the most need for DEFO's. Also heard that holding pool applicants have to re-interview in Hong Kong.
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news
To the ignorant cxxt,
I've heard the next DFO started off his career as a cadet also. So, I guess everyone have to start off somewhere. I'm sure you have been a 'prostitute' once, when you started off with ZERO experience and begging for jobs. I hope the big guy didn't spank you too hard and have some dignity left in you. At the end of the day, you can be my bxtxh!!
I totally support the cadet programme, I've already put in the application. Interview will start in Aug. for me.
I've heard the next DFO started off his career as a cadet also. So, I guess everyone have to start off somewhere. I'm sure you have been a 'prostitute' once, when you started off with ZERO experience and begging for jobs. I hope the big guy didn't spank you too hard and have some dignity left in you. At the end of the day, you can be my bxtxh!!
I totally support the cadet programme, I've already put in the application. Interview will start in Aug. for me.
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I am going to Adelaide for flight grading in June 2010.
When I received the phone call inviting me, HR questioned me on my flying experience; to be eligible for the short course you need:
CPL + IR
250 hours total time
30 hours cross country of which at least one flight was over 100 nm
4 hours night as pilot in command
When I received the phone call inviting me, HR questioned me on my flying experience; to be eligible for the short course you need:
CPL + IR
250 hours total time
30 hours cross country of which at least one flight was over 100 nm
4 hours night as pilot in command
Last edited by happyguy99; 26th Jan 2011 at 11:11.
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Hai happyguy...must be superb excited for ur flight grading....may i ask where do we send in the application or just through the cadet scheme online CX website??million thanks...