DESO :-(
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DESO :-(
Got the email recently. No hiring until 2012 if at all. Sounds like they'll reinterview if they're still interested in the future. Back to the drawing board.
Last edited by CAUK; 8th Nov 2010 at 03:15.
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Nothing new here
Got it too. Nothing new. I've probably been in the hold pool the longest for various reasons (August '07 anyone?) and was told in August 'o8 that additional assessment might be needed. Can't blame them. It might be FIVE YEARS! for me between offer and start. I did it once, I can do it again.
The general impression I have been left with from this email and from others and phone calls with recruiting is that those in the hold pool will be given first shot at it when hiring eventually resumes.
Also I take some consolation that at my current airline I was told something similar and then called and asked to show up for class a with a weeks notice one month later...
The general impression I have been left with from this email and from others and phone calls with recruiting is that those in the hold pool will be given first shot at it when hiring eventually resumes.
Also I take some consolation that at my current airline I was told something similar and then called and asked to show up for class a with a weeks notice one month later...
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Unless they are way off their crewing plans and cargo,pax traffic picks up more then planned, I would not hope too much in getting hired. If they can get cheap labour, they will. Why hire us under expat terms when they can have cadets for half the price? A year or two down the road I wouldn't be surprised if they cut the expat terms for deso as well. I'm sure there are people who would gladly take it. For me personally, HK deso, full expat terms, nothing more nothing less. That's what I interviewed for and I will not accept anything less.
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The general impression I have been left with from this email and from others and phone calls with recruiting is that those in the hold pool will be given first shot at it when hiring eventually resumes.
I know from authoritative source it is the approach another legacy carrier (in Europe, but I heard from word of mouth a few others did it, notably one in Ireland) took in the aftermath of 9/11 and is the approach it is now taking post-recession. Poolies given a shot first, then any additional positions advertised to the wider pilot community.
Can't see why CX wouldn't want to do the same, guarantees them a supply of ready, willing and "quality-assured" candidates.
Best of luck folks.
Last edited by B-HVY; 28th Jan 2010 at 18:06.
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Seatrumper.....A question: Have you been previously offered a start date but turned it down (for any number of your own personal reasons)? The reason I ask that I do know of quite a few DESO's who have started having been interviewed at and after you were.
CX seems determined to be going down the path of becoming "just another airline". Rhodes is stating he wishes to review the housing allowance scheme, cadets replacing DESO's due accepting T&C's far, far, far below those on offer to the DESO's, CoS08, SLS, no BPP, retirement age change and the package they have accepted, China Airlines influence (cargo), etc, etc....
It appears CX would prefect to see those holding on the DESO pool to withdraw so they can take the cadets (well, they will anyway of they choose!) and "if and when" they do decide to recruit form the DESO file (2012 ??!!) then be prepared to be reinterviewed. So, pay more to practice in the 747 classic and perhaps CX can use the interview to say that you're no longer "CX material".
Having said all that doom and gloom, CX can and do change their recruitment policy and needs at the drop of a hat and a 180 deg turn could occur.
CX would rather spend more money on advertising telling everyone how great they are, how superior they are yet behind the scenes lies a very disgruntled crew base (pilots, FA's, engineers.....) Reminds me of Qatar somehow...?
CX seems determined to be going down the path of becoming "just another airline". Rhodes is stating he wishes to review the housing allowance scheme, cadets replacing DESO's due accepting T&C's far, far, far below those on offer to the DESO's, CoS08, SLS, no BPP, retirement age change and the package they have accepted, China Airlines influence (cargo), etc, etc....
It appears CX would prefect to see those holding on the DESO pool to withdraw so they can take the cadets (well, they will anyway of they choose!) and "if and when" they do decide to recruit form the DESO file (2012 ??!!) then be prepared to be reinterviewed. So, pay more to practice in the 747 classic and perhaps CX can use the interview to say that you're no longer "CX material".
Having said all that doom and gloom, CX can and do change their recruitment policy and needs at the drop of a hat and a 180 deg turn could occur.
CX would rather spend more money on advertising telling everyone how great they are, how superior they are yet behind the scenes lies a very disgruntled crew base (pilots, FA's, engineers.....) Reminds me of Qatar somehow...?
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Same boat, waiting for a DESO spot. I'll just pass my take on this to the rest of you.
I called them, asked some pointed questions, and what I got out of it was:
- Only cadets planned for the future. Only if the forecast needs are out would they use DE.
- Don't pass up on other jobs if they come your way.
- Update your resume online. (makes me think the 'pool' has no value)
A friend of mine is just finishing as a Cadet (he's not an expat), and he's been told along the way that the international cadets were being used because Cx wasn't getting enough interest from local cadets or DE pilots. Recently he's also been told they are strongly recovering and the future is looking bright. (he passed that along to me two days before we got our rejection letters)
The increased retirement age greatly diminished the appeal that the job initially held. I would still love to work there, but only for the terms and conditions that were in place when we interviewed. I'm not sure if that job still exists.
Also, they have greatly increased the number of cadet courses. I can't see their forecasting being that off that they will need DE pilots for a while. And when they do I believe there will be people willing to join as DE on the cadet terms.
This all makes sense from a financial planning point of view for them. I believe the additional operational costs incurred will be a different story.
Anyways, just my take on the situation. And flyinhigh's right - life goes on.
ftp
I called them, asked some pointed questions, and what I got out of it was:
- Only cadets planned for the future. Only if the forecast needs are out would they use DE.
- Don't pass up on other jobs if they come your way.
- Update your resume online. (makes me think the 'pool' has no value)
A friend of mine is just finishing as a Cadet (he's not an expat), and he's been told along the way that the international cadets were being used because Cx wasn't getting enough interest from local cadets or DE pilots. Recently he's also been told they are strongly recovering and the future is looking bright. (he passed that along to me two days before we got our rejection letters)
The increased retirement age greatly diminished the appeal that the job initially held. I would still love to work there, but only for the terms and conditions that were in place when we interviewed. I'm not sure if that job still exists.
Also, they have greatly increased the number of cadet courses. I can't see their forecasting being that off that they will need DE pilots for a while. And when they do I believe there will be people willing to join as DE on the cadet terms.
This all makes sense from a financial planning point of view for them. I believe the additional operational costs incurred will be a different story.
Anyways, just my take on the situation. And flyinhigh's right - life goes on.
ftp
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I would disagree with the above..
Business does seem to be back in strength and they ALWAYS underestimate and under crew. Whilst one can't see a need for a lot of DESO's as they are recruiting cadets overseas with a vengeance these days, one can see that they won't be able to push through cadet courses as fast as they need and the odd DEFO/DESO course may well take place.
Business does seem to be back in strength and they ALWAYS underestimate and under crew. Whilst one can't see a need for a lot of DESO's as they are recruiting cadets overseas with a vengeance these days, one can see that they won't be able to push through cadet courses as fast as they need and the odd DEFO/DESO course may well take place.
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Unfortunately for future DESO's, even ones currently on hold awaiting starts, word from The Street is that there will not be anymore expat packages offered. Only local terms with no housing etc. Not good news for guys wanting to come to HKG.
Sorry if this has been covered already...
Sorry if this has been covered already...
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It seems the Cadet short course for applicants with ATPL or Commercial licence is soon to be approved by the HKCAD, which will shave off 10 months of the regular cadet course. Unfortunately that means no Direct Entry positions anymore as long as they can fill the courses.
cadet vs. cadet
How can someone with a couple thousand hours AND an ATPL be defined as a "cadet"... these guys will come to HKG and will realize in a couple of years that they just committed financial suicide... you all have been warned... just use CX as a stepping stone..
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I can't see joining as a cadet as any stepping stone. As SO they are not even given a true endorsement on the aircraft. So after 3, 4 or 7 (??) years as SO what real qualifications have they to show? Stick time? P1 U/S? Takeoffs & Landings? Approaches? Sorry.... NOTHING. Their contract does not even allow for upgrade.
Many of those in the DESO holding pool (as I understand it & correct me is I'm wrong...?) have a lot of jet experience. Some even on type such as A330, B777, etc or B737 and A320 yet CX prefer to lower the bar for a better profit.
Yes, CX appears to be hell bent on being "just another airline". This process is begun by management cutting every cost possible to ensure profit margins keep growing (all be they artificially - see QF as an example), salary and wages decrease (except for remarkable bonuses paid to the bean-counters. Hell! Even the fool who screwed up CX's fuel hedging and cost the airline millions received a healthy "productivity bonus" last period!) and all the while pilots will sell their soul.
Then we see pilots fight with pilots because he/she joined as a DEFO / DEC / cadet, SO with no BPP, A-Scale vs B-Scale vs (now) C-Scale, retirement age..... DIVIDE AND CONQUER! Then management have the audacity to question why morale is so low, why pilots call in sick, why their is no respect for the uniform.....
25 years ago CX pilots were paid VERY well and they showed that respect given in their professionalism and genuine passion for the airline. Can those in the management driving seat claim the same? CX? May as well say it in the same tone as Jetstar, Ryanair, etc....
Many of those in the DESO holding pool (as I understand it & correct me is I'm wrong...?) have a lot of jet experience. Some even on type such as A330, B777, etc or B737 and A320 yet CX prefer to lower the bar for a better profit.
Yes, CX appears to be hell bent on being "just another airline". This process is begun by management cutting every cost possible to ensure profit margins keep growing (all be they artificially - see QF as an example), salary and wages decrease (except for remarkable bonuses paid to the bean-counters. Hell! Even the fool who screwed up CX's fuel hedging and cost the airline millions received a healthy "productivity bonus" last period!) and all the while pilots will sell their soul.
Then we see pilots fight with pilots because he/she joined as a DEFO / DEC / cadet, SO with no BPP, A-Scale vs B-Scale vs (now) C-Scale, retirement age..... DIVIDE AND CONQUER! Then management have the audacity to question why morale is so low, why pilots call in sick, why their is no respect for the uniform.....
25 years ago CX pilots were paid VERY well and they showed that respect given in their professionalism and genuine passion for the airline. Can those in the management driving seat claim the same? CX? May as well say it in the same tone as Jetstar, Ryanair, etc....
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Just Another Airline
I'd really like to know how this airline with arguably the best cadet scheme in the world is just "another airline like Jetstar or Ryanair".
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Ha! ''The best cadet scheme in the world''. Whatta bs! Cathay is selling their name and reputation. A name and reputation from 20 years ago... International cadets better try Etihad cadet scheme. Start as f/o, get all the benefits plus command in about half the time from Cathay. Mind you, if I was 10 years younger and looking for sponsorship I would take any opportunity given to me, even Cathay. And by the way, what kind of cadets already have commercial license+mifr? Discount seat fillers!
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betpump5.... I believe the answer has been given by others.
Sour grapes? Are you referring to me? Someone who has never nor will work for CX (different airline career path, that's all)?
Also, what did I write that was without FACT? Please elaborate. If I am wrong, correct me, instead of asking me to provide you with wine from my ar$se. (Whatever floats your boat....!)
Your narrow-mindedness fails to see the far, far, far better cadetship options on offer at airlines like EY, as mentioned in this thread by others and by me previously in other similar threads.
Personally I wish those who join CX (or any other outfit) only the greatest of success. They must go in eyes wide open, not believing the Goebels orientated dogma where the dream is what is sold, not the reality. FACTS speak louder the ill-bred opinion.
Sour grapes? Are you referring to me? Someone who has never nor will work for CX (different airline career path, that's all)?
Also, what did I write that was without FACT? Please elaborate. If I am wrong, correct me, instead of asking me to provide you with wine from my ar$se. (Whatever floats your boat....!)
Your narrow-mindedness fails to see the far, far, far better cadetship options on offer at airlines like EY, as mentioned in this thread by others and by me previously in other similar threads.
Personally I wish those who join CX (or any other outfit) only the greatest of success. They must go in eyes wide open, not believing the Goebels orientated dogma where the dream is what is sold, not the reality. FACTS speak louder the ill-bred opinion.
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TopChump,
You said in a previous post that "CX is determined to go down the path of becoming just another airline". What is the definition of Just Another Airline?
Many here have mentioned EY. Oh yes, the airline that takes one batch of cadets per year after a farcical selection stage that resembles something from Britain's Got X-Factor. You mention "far far better cadetship options". So apart from said EY, would you like to venture the other cadetship options available in this world at the moment?
And out of these "options", pray tell me whether they give housing allowance?
TopTup, for someone who has "never have or will work for CX", you seem to have a lot of things to say. Therefore, if you (or anyone) comes on to the FH forum spouting your opions in an insulting manner, then you must expect someone to defend their airline.
There are over 2'500 of us flying for CX. 99.9% of us are in love with the job, the airline AND the reputation. The very very small minority you see complaining on FH about Air Pollution and anything else that is the "complaint du jour" are the type of pilots you can see a mile-off and whom who would never want to fly with.
Danbuster,
is it CXs fault that Hong Kong housing is obscenely expensive and hence they should recompense the cadets that have willingly entered the CPP?
You said in a previous post that "CX is determined to go down the path of becoming just another airline". What is the definition of Just Another Airline?
Many here have mentioned EY. Oh yes, the airline that takes one batch of cadets per year after a farcical selection stage that resembles something from Britain's Got X-Factor. You mention "far far better cadetship options". So apart from said EY, would you like to venture the other cadetship options available in this world at the moment?
And out of these "options", pray tell me whether they give housing allowance?
TopTup, for someone who has "never have or will work for CX", you seem to have a lot of things to say. Therefore, if you (or anyone) comes on to the FH forum spouting your opions in an insulting manner, then you must expect someone to defend their airline.
There are over 2'500 of us flying for CX. 99.9% of us are in love with the job, the airline AND the reputation. The very very small minority you see complaining on FH about Air Pollution and anything else that is the "complaint du jour" are the type of pilots you can see a mile-off and whom who would never want to fly with.
Danbuster,
is it CXs fault that Hong Kong housing is obscenely expensive and hence they should recompense the cadets that have willingly entered the CPP?
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Dan,
I took the liberty of looking at some of your past posts and your contributions to "Scuffy B*ggers" highlights pretty much what I have been saying about the ususal complainers here on Pprune.
I pity you that you have to childishly stick a character being sick, just because of what I wrote and how I feel about my job. If you don't feel that way, that is your problem. Don't come on here and insult me. And by the way, I firmly believe that if you are not happy with what you are doing, then don't do it. Life is far too short.
In essence, **** Off.
I took the liberty of looking at some of your past posts and your contributions to "Scuffy B*ggers" highlights pretty much what I have been saying about the ususal complainers here on Pprune.
I pity you that you have to childishly stick a character being sick, just because of what I wrote and how I feel about my job. If you don't feel that way, that is your problem. Don't come on here and insult me. And by the way, I firmly believe that if you are not happy with what you are doing, then don't do it. Life is far too short.
In essence, **** Off.
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betpump5.... The answer to your question was given via the opinions of others. I'll even type this slow so you can take the time to re-read it.
You turn on personal attack when you are unable to draw upon FACT to support your opinion. You're an idiot. I offered you to please correct me if and where I am wrong but you are incapable of such a common professional means. So, when unable to support an argument you turn to personal abuse.
I have an opinion and I cast it. But I also try to do so from an informed opinion. Hell, I thought that was the point of this web site. Your previous history of posts are a testament to your self gained omniscient view of the CPP situation at CX: from the process of what to study to the role of females, housing costs...and on , and on, and on, and on.... Yet time and time and time again when someone disagreed with you, you turn to personal attack. Were you not breast fed?
Sorry! You were!! Daddy paid for your training and route onto a 732 (age 19) and then 74F and you came to CX as a DEFO.
Quote from you: "I will agree with one thing though- My housing allowance as a DEFO makes it all worth it"
......and you scream from the rafters offering your wisdom and advice (ad nausea!!!) about how to get into an airline, AND to accept lower T & C's.
By your own admission you even changed your username in the hope of your true identity not being discovered by those back in the UK should you wish to return. You're a class act!
So, what did I write that came to you as an "insulting manner"? Which one of my FACTS did you rebut? Did I rain on your parade? Did I charge you $1 HKD more for your beer at Stauntons?
Can't wait to see CX take YOUR housing allowance and other expat "rights". After all, you would accept that because CX are only doing what they see as fair and just owing to the obscenely expensive real estate market in HK and need to cut costs. Well, that seems to be your argument.
I personally know the CP of the 777 Fleet at EY (initials KT if you must push for verification) . I know the [cadet] selection process. I have seen it. "Britain's Got Talent" (well I think that's the simile you tried to use)? Shows your ignorance.
At EY they (cadets and other, FA's as well) are either a) given a housing allowance or b) offered company housing in its stead. That offer is subject to availability at the time.
Please let me know when to stop doing the research for you. I would hate to spoil your imbecilia when that (straight) jacket fits so well.
For the record.... Have you EVER (read again, still typing slow for you: "EVER"!!!!) called in sick for a flight when you were not? Is your love of the airline so great that you abuse the system? Then again, you'll hunt down a self-absorbed way to justify that as well.
Come at me with facts to support an argument and we'll chat. Otherwise, grow the hell up. Everyone is wrong but you, eh? Have an opinion but support it.
Beware of a fool and an ill-gotten agenda. Reason left the equation long ago!
You turn on personal attack when you are unable to draw upon FACT to support your opinion. You're an idiot. I offered you to please correct me if and where I am wrong but you are incapable of such a common professional means. So, when unable to support an argument you turn to personal abuse.
I have an opinion and I cast it. But I also try to do so from an informed opinion. Hell, I thought that was the point of this web site. Your previous history of posts are a testament to your self gained omniscient view of the CPP situation at CX: from the process of what to study to the role of females, housing costs...and on , and on, and on, and on.... Yet time and time and time again when someone disagreed with you, you turn to personal attack. Were you not breast fed?
Sorry! You were!! Daddy paid for your training and route onto a 732 (age 19) and then 74F and you came to CX as a DEFO.
Quote from you: "I will agree with one thing though- My housing allowance as a DEFO makes it all worth it"
......and you scream from the rafters offering your wisdom and advice (ad nausea!!!) about how to get into an airline, AND to accept lower T & C's.
By your own admission you even changed your username in the hope of your true identity not being discovered by those back in the UK should you wish to return. You're a class act!
So, what did I write that came to you as an "insulting manner"? Which one of my FACTS did you rebut? Did I rain on your parade? Did I charge you $1 HKD more for your beer at Stauntons?
Can't wait to see CX take YOUR housing allowance and other expat "rights". After all, you would accept that because CX are only doing what they see as fair and just owing to the obscenely expensive real estate market in HK and need to cut costs. Well, that seems to be your argument.
I personally know the CP of the 777 Fleet at EY (initials KT if you must push for verification) . I know the [cadet] selection process. I have seen it. "Britain's Got Talent" (well I think that's the simile you tried to use)? Shows your ignorance.
At EY they (cadets and other, FA's as well) are either a) given a housing allowance or b) offered company housing in its stead. That offer is subject to availability at the time.
Please let me know when to stop doing the research for you. I would hate to spoil your imbecilia when that (straight) jacket fits so well.
For the record.... Have you EVER (read again, still typing slow for you: "EVER"!!!!) called in sick for a flight when you were not? Is your love of the airline so great that you abuse the system? Then again, you'll hunt down a self-absorbed way to justify that as well.
Come at me with facts to support an argument and we'll chat. Otherwise, grow the hell up. Everyone is wrong but you, eh? Have an opinion but support it.
Beware of a fool and an ill-gotten agenda. Reason left the equation long ago!
Last edited by TopTup; 5th Feb 2010 at 05:40.