Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme
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Em773ER
I don't agree with the statement either. I met a two-year SO and he's loving life. You do get a decent amount of days off b/c the trips are so long. The housing is not that ugly and you wont live like a pauper.
I think the point that many have over-stressed to death is that if your not accustomed to living in Hong Kong, there will lots of adjustments needed. In America we are used to big apartments; the bigger the better. We have studio apartments that are bigger than some three bedrooms in Hong Kong. But, you've got to be able to adapt. The first time I went to Hong Kong, I thought everything was small. The next time I went to my friends house, it was like home away from home.
Like it was stated early, if you go to Hong Kong expecting to live the life you do now, and find places as big as the one you may have, you may go broke. But if you learn the lifestyle and adjust, you will have a great time and not be as worried about money (as many on this forum make it seem like you will be hard up for cash).
If only they knew what pilots start out making here at regional airlines...
I think the point that many have over-stressed to death is that if your not accustomed to living in Hong Kong, there will lots of adjustments needed. In America we are used to big apartments; the bigger the better. We have studio apartments that are bigger than some three bedrooms in Hong Kong. But, you've got to be able to adapt. The first time I went to Hong Kong, I thought everything was small. The next time I went to my friends house, it was like home away from home.
Like it was stated early, if you go to Hong Kong expecting to live the life you do now, and find places as big as the one you may have, you may go broke. But if you learn the lifestyle and adjust, you will have a great time and not be as worried about money (as many on this forum make it seem like you will be hard up for cash).
If only they knew what pilots start out making here at regional airlines...
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Bizzle284
Agree with you there, couldn't have put it better myself. I think the housing allowance of the past allowed expatriate pilots to live a lifestyle similar to what they were used to. Nowadays without the housing allowance, much more adapting will be needed on part of the new Cathay pilot. I guess nowadays, you are required to give up more if you are truly keen on joining CX. I guess it all boils down to that.
Having said that though, no one should be under any illusion as to the amount of adapting needed. It is easy to survive on an S/O paycheck if you are young and single - but after you get married, have kids, parents retire... that could be another story altogether. So have a think about it - the interviewers could well ask questions about how you think you will live in HKG.
Having said that though, no one should be under any illusion as to the amount of adapting needed. It is easy to survive on an S/O paycheck if you are young and single - but after you get married, have kids, parents retire... that could be another story altogether. So have a think about it - the interviewers could well ask questions about how you think you will live in HKG.
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You only have to put up with it for 5-6 years, then you will have your 1000+ hours on wide body jets and then CX will have to make it more attractive or suffer the mass exodus. I know I would not be here if there was no housing, well I would be but would leave soon after the upgrade. It will be interesting to see what happens in 5 or so years as the previous cadets stay because Hong Kong is their home but why would anyone not want to fly for the same or more money back home doing a similar job?
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Bizzle284 & holdmetight
Totally agree with you both.
The starting salary of F/Os in the US is actually much lower than the starting salary of CX S/Os.
Airlines report that they pay them more, but from investigations from the past 2 years with actual pilots, they actually make less than what a minimum wage person will make. At the lowest end they will only make US$21,000 a year. CX S/Os start at around US$51,000...where would you go? And from my understanding, there are no US airlines that offers regular joes a fully paid training program. Check this link out:
FltOps.com - Guiding Pilots to their Professional Goals
Not sure how much has Michael Moore brainwashed me, but from his Documentary, Capitalism: A Love Story, the living style of pilot in US is horrific. They live on food stamps and have to work second jobs. They don't sit around and have coffee, they are probably at Starbucks making the coffee!
Whatever is happening at CX with pilots complaining that they are not getting paid enough is also happening in US. Airlines (probably not just in HK and US), take advantage of pilot's passion for flying and pay them just enough to get by. So I think it's not a matter of picking CX or not, it is a matter of picking the right industry for your profession or not.
Excerpt from the documentary:
YouTube - Michael Moore's 'Capitalism: A Love Story' - Pilots on Food Stamps
Well, that's how a pilot career is in US...should I really stay here?
The starting salary of F/Os in the US is actually much lower than the starting salary of CX S/Os.
Airlines report that they pay them more, but from investigations from the past 2 years with actual pilots, they actually make less than what a minimum wage person will make. At the lowest end they will only make US$21,000 a year. CX S/Os start at around US$51,000...where would you go? And from my understanding, there are no US airlines that offers regular joes a fully paid training program. Check this link out:
FltOps.com - Guiding Pilots to their Professional Goals
Not sure how much has Michael Moore brainwashed me, but from his Documentary, Capitalism: A Love Story, the living style of pilot in US is horrific. They live on food stamps and have to work second jobs. They don't sit around and have coffee, they are probably at Starbucks making the coffee!
Whatever is happening at CX with pilots complaining that they are not getting paid enough is also happening in US. Airlines (probably not just in HK and US), take advantage of pilot's passion for flying and pay them just enough to get by. So I think it's not a matter of picking CX or not, it is a matter of picking the right industry for your profession or not.
Excerpt from the documentary:
YouTube - Michael Moore's 'Capitalism: A Love Story' - Pilots on Food Stamps
Well, that's how a pilot career is in US...should I really stay here?
Last edited by AsL402; 9th May 2010 at 01:06.
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AsL402, Bizzle284 & holdmetight
I agree with you guys, those were my thoughts exactly. Just a quick question, are S/O's allowed to leave HK during their free time? and if so, how long will they allow to be away before you have to be back?
and AsL402 you should do what you think is best for what you want out of your career as a pilot. If you want to have that "GA experience" before going into a major airline then maybe staying in USA might be better, but if you want to go straight to a major airline i think the CX CPP is a great opportunity regardless of the disadvantages people are exaggerating.
and are CX pilots allowed to get jobs overseas? apparently they are not allowed to have other jobs in HK, but does that apply to overseas jobs?
and AsL402 you should do what you think is best for what you want out of your career as a pilot. If you want to have that "GA experience" before going into a major airline then maybe staying in USA might be better, but if you want to go straight to a major airline i think the CX CPP is a great opportunity regardless of the disadvantages people are exaggerating.
and are CX pilots allowed to get jobs overseas? apparently they are not allowed to have other jobs in HK, but does that apply to overseas jobs?
Last edited by Em773ER; 9th May 2010 at 13:43.
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Em773ER
Yes, S/Os are free to leave HKG during their "free" time. Whether or not you could actually find time to leave HKG is another issue. The definition of "free time" is quite generic, because standby duty could also technically be classified as "spare" time while you are sitting at home, waiting for crew control to call you.
My understanding is that you are only truly free to do what you want on G-days (guaranteed days off). Therefore whether you have enough time to leave HKG depends on whether these G-days come in clusters or are sporadically given over the month. Another point to consider would be whether you want to fork out your hard-earned $$$ for a ticket back home, as employee travel benefits are attractive but not always so reliable.
So to answer your question, you are allowed to leave HKG but there are more complications than just whether Cathay allow you to go home or not.
My understanding is that you are only truly free to do what you want on G-days (guaranteed days off). Therefore whether you have enough time to leave HKG depends on whether these G-days come in clusters or are sporadically given over the month. Another point to consider would be whether you want to fork out your hard-earned $$$ for a ticket back home, as employee travel benefits are attractive but not always so reliable.
So to answer your question, you are allowed to leave HKG but there are more complications than just whether Cathay allow you to go home or not.
Join Date: May 2009
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holdmetight
Not sure if you are an SO but have a look at SOs rosters. SOs get so much time off you could go away for at least a week every month. If you swap trips and request days off where you want it would be more like 10 days in a row every other month and a week off in a row the months you cant get the 10 in a row sorted, I have never not got the 5 G's where I requested them, ever. Problem is though, if you plan on flying home every month and don't get housing a large chunk of cash goes on somewhere to live every month and it would be hard to get away that often due to lack of money.
O days and G days are pretty much the same thing for an SO other than the ones after a block of reserve.
O days and G days are pretty much the same thing for an SO other than the ones after a block of reserve.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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corecreate
I applied August 2009, indicating Manila as first choice and Hong Kong as second choice, but haven't heard anything from them yet...
I sent a follow-up email maybe last month and they said that my application is still among the ones which they have not reviewed yet.
I sent a follow-up email maybe last month and they said that my application is still among the ones which they have not reviewed yet.
Join Date: May 2010
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calvin_1912
Good to hear someone from the Philippines also applied! I've just applied this month. Lets just hope and keep our fingers crossed that we could get in. By the way, do you have any flying experience?
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If you wonder I applied in Nov and got the invite May. It took 5 months, so dont panic. Although its good to send them a e-mail, it shows your interested. Dont send to many mails though, I sent 2 mails during the 5 months.
Good luck!
Good luck!
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Living in HK
Some very positive and sensible posts recenty concerning SO's living and working in HK. Of course it is important to compare lifestyle in HK with where you currently live, but lets also not forget there are very few jobs/careers for newly qualiied pilots, or those with aspirations to become pilots. Also, most new SO's who may have lived in "superior or larger" accomodation will have done so courtesy of parents!!
The CX (SO) pay isn't bad when compared to, for example UK airlines, and tax is taken into account. However there aint no jobs in the UK !!!!! ( unless you want to pay Ryanair GBP30/40,000 to get your type rating!!), or for that matter anywhere else in the world. Of course the deal in HK is better for Expat's but there is currently no way in on that status for low hour pilots so a comparison is of no real value.
It is very easy to criticise CX and be cynical about their motives behind "Cadetships" - financial reasons being no doubt a major reason - but it does seem most likely that CX will still be around many years from now when less well managed airlines have failed. This bodes well for not only those now joining as Cadets , but also those who are on "Expat" terms.
The final decision to come to HK is an individual one and these columns do at least give valuable input, although often opposing and sometimes unduly negative. HK has a lot going for it notwithstanding the obvious high housing costs, but maybe some initial sacrifices are necessary to "follow the dream" of becoming a pilot which seems inherent in most applicants.
The CX (SO) pay isn't bad when compared to, for example UK airlines, and tax is taken into account. However there aint no jobs in the UK !!!!! ( unless you want to pay Ryanair GBP30/40,000 to get your type rating!!), or for that matter anywhere else in the world. Of course the deal in HK is better for Expat's but there is currently no way in on that status for low hour pilots so a comparison is of no real value.
It is very easy to criticise CX and be cynical about their motives behind "Cadetships" - financial reasons being no doubt a major reason - but it does seem most likely that CX will still be around many years from now when less well managed airlines have failed. This bodes well for not only those now joining as Cadets , but also those who are on "Expat" terms.
The final decision to come to HK is an individual one and these columns do at least give valuable input, although often opposing and sometimes unduly negative. HK has a lot going for it notwithstanding the obvious high housing costs, but maybe some initial sacrifices are necessary to "follow the dream" of becoming a pilot which seems inherent in most applicants.
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Temporary Base
Hi,
Is the 2 months temporary base option still opened to SO ? Is that garanteed or depends on availability and eligibilty ?
Thanks for sharing dear SO.....
Is the 2 months temporary base option still opened to SO ? Is that garanteed or depends on availability and eligibilty ?
Thanks for sharing dear SO.....
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Thank you holdmetight and lpuk for the info and feedback.
A previous post showed how S/O hours are logged etc, and that S/O's are only on flights that are at least 8 hours long. I was wondering in the time "on the job" (6 days, 9 nights?) what exactly happens? Do S/O's do "there and back" flights? do they do pairing flights? Basically my question is what kind of flights do S/O's do? are they the same as F/O's and Captains?
oh and is it true that S/O's are on all the CX fleet?
any info on this would be great anyone, thanks
A previous post showed how S/O hours are logged etc, and that S/O's are only on flights that are at least 8 hours long. I was wondering in the time "on the job" (6 days, 9 nights?) what exactly happens? Do S/O's do "there and back" flights? do they do pairing flights? Basically my question is what kind of flights do S/O's do? are they the same as F/O's and Captains?
oh and is it true that S/O's are on all the CX fleet?
any info on this would be great anyone, thanks
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Ipuk
Well put. That's exactly it. If your going to carry out your dream, you've got to make sacrifices. And as I stated earlier, there are no jobs for low time pilots where I am. A quarter of the airline industry is under furlough. And when you consider the stability of CX (and the fact that you will not be a S.O. forever), the cadet programme doesn't sound like a bad option. Especially when First Officers here are starting out at a 3rd of what a Second Officer makes.
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Ispahan
Yes there are still 2 month temp bases for SOs. Depends on seniority, the bases available for your fleet, if there are enough people wanting one and a new rule just introduced is you must be legal to work where you plan on doing the temp base. Very much hit and miss.
Em773ER
On the airbus fleet (will be almost the same for all fleets)
Most patterns are 3 days meaning you leave on day one to Melbourne for example, spend one night in Melbourne and then fly back to HKG. Usual layover is about 24 hours.
If flights to a destination are daily or twice daily, three times a day or four times a day every day of the week the pattern will be a 24 hour layover most likely. Auckland at the moment (winter) is 10 flights a week so some patterns are not just a 24 hour layover and are more like 48 hours. Moscow when it starts in July is only three flights a week some some patterns will be 3 nights in the hotel, should be fun.
As there are lots of based pilots you do not normally spend the layover with them as they go home but if flying with HKG based crew yes they are normally on the same pattern but there are exceptions. We use SOs to Dubai and quite often the FO and CN do a shuttle flight to somewhere else in the region and so their patterns are longer, 5 day I think. The SO goes back on a flight, operating usually but sometimes px (as passenger) anywhere from 12-23 hours after arriving.
It is not correct that SOs only work on flights longer than 8 hours. The return leg from Dubai is sometimes 6 and a bit hours, legally an SO is not required but you often operate so they can sell the seat they are required to provide in business class if you are on duty travel as a pax. Also some flights less than 8 hours legally require an SO. One of the Airbuses most hated flights for an SO is px to Bangkok, next evening fly to Karachi and back to Bangkok have a day and a half off in Bangkok then fly to Karachi and back again then sit in business class for the Bangkok to HKG bit. Each leg is under 6 hours. I dont mind it as get a descent amount of time in Bangkok. You do not fly with the same CN and FO on this pattern on the second KHI trip.
Yes SOs are on all of CX aircraft types. Not 100% sure if the 777 SOs are on the 777-200 and 777-300 but are on the ER. If on the Airbus you do about a year on the A340 only and then do a CCQ course and operate both the A340 and A330. I am sure you know they are on the 400 including freighters sometimes.
Yes there are still 2 month temp bases for SOs. Depends on seniority, the bases available for your fleet, if there are enough people wanting one and a new rule just introduced is you must be legal to work where you plan on doing the temp base. Very much hit and miss.
Em773ER
On the airbus fleet (will be almost the same for all fleets)
Most patterns are 3 days meaning you leave on day one to Melbourne for example, spend one night in Melbourne and then fly back to HKG. Usual layover is about 24 hours.
If flights to a destination are daily or twice daily, three times a day or four times a day every day of the week the pattern will be a 24 hour layover most likely. Auckland at the moment (winter) is 10 flights a week so some patterns are not just a 24 hour layover and are more like 48 hours. Moscow when it starts in July is only three flights a week some some patterns will be 3 nights in the hotel, should be fun.
As there are lots of based pilots you do not normally spend the layover with them as they go home but if flying with HKG based crew yes they are normally on the same pattern but there are exceptions. We use SOs to Dubai and quite often the FO and CN do a shuttle flight to somewhere else in the region and so their patterns are longer, 5 day I think. The SO goes back on a flight, operating usually but sometimes px (as passenger) anywhere from 12-23 hours after arriving.
It is not correct that SOs only work on flights longer than 8 hours. The return leg from Dubai is sometimes 6 and a bit hours, legally an SO is not required but you often operate so they can sell the seat they are required to provide in business class if you are on duty travel as a pax. Also some flights less than 8 hours legally require an SO. One of the Airbuses most hated flights for an SO is px to Bangkok, next evening fly to Karachi and back to Bangkok have a day and a half off in Bangkok then fly to Karachi and back again then sit in business class for the Bangkok to HKG bit. Each leg is under 6 hours. I dont mind it as get a descent amount of time in Bangkok. You do not fly with the same CN and FO on this pattern on the second KHI trip.
Yes SOs are on all of CX aircraft types. Not 100% sure if the 777 SOs are on the 777-200 and 777-300 but are on the ER. If on the Airbus you do about a year on the A340 only and then do a CCQ course and operate both the A340 and A330. I am sure you know they are on the 400 including freighters sometimes.