CX/FTA Instructor Secondment
Join Date: Nov 2006
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can anyone think about the reason why they set up this program??
firstly, they are desperate for pilots, that's for sure
second, i think they want to limit their batches each year. if i were the company, i would prefer hiring instructors instead of cadets with 200 hrs.
third, they want to reduce the expense on cadets.
there's rumor saying Da11 will be last CPP.
for me, i will definitely try coz i want to leave canada and have a new start somewhere.
i will e-mail for further info.
firstly, they are desperate for pilots, that's for sure
second, i think they want to limit their batches each year. if i were the company, i would prefer hiring instructors instead of cadets with 200 hrs.
third, they want to reduce the expense on cadets.
there's rumor saying Da11 will be last CPP.
for me, i will definitely try coz i want to leave canada and have a new start somewhere.
i will e-mail for further info.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I don't think the new scheme is merely to let you build your hours. With the expected introduction of the MPL, airlines need a new generation of pilots who can instruct as well as fly. By the time the products of the MPL come fully on stream in a few years' time, the MPL newbie would be kicking off with less hours than the average cadet of today, which means a lot of hand holding in the early stages.
Just my 2 cents' worth - I stand to be corrected on this.
Just my 2 cents' worth - I stand to be corrected on this.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Contrary to what people might think, this CX/FTA partnership actually allows CX to hire more cadets and reduce expenses in the long run.
Courses in ADL are being delayed due to a chronic shortage of pilots worldwide. Regional airlines are hiring at record low minimums, and instructors are the first ones to go.
This program keeps the instructors at FTA for 42 months, which won't solve the pilot shortages at CX anytime soon. However, it does solve the instructor shortage problems at FTA, which allows FTA to train more cadets for CX.
Local pilots in CX are on a salary package that is significantly lower than the DESO package. Although the initial investments are higher for cadets, CX saves money in the long run.
It's true that CX will be sponsoring some costs of training for the instructors, but it will be offset by the tremendous amount of savings by having more pilots on the local package.
Overall, I think this will be financially beneficial to CX. They will end up hiring more cadets, less DESOs, and reduce salary expenses for pilots.
Courses in ADL are being delayed due to a chronic shortage of pilots worldwide. Regional airlines are hiring at record low minimums, and instructors are the first ones to go.
This program keeps the instructors at FTA for 42 months, which won't solve the pilot shortages at CX anytime soon. However, it does solve the instructor shortage problems at FTA, which allows FTA to train more cadets for CX.
Local pilots in CX are on a salary package that is significantly lower than the DESO package. Although the initial investments are higher for cadets, CX saves money in the long run.
It's true that CX will be sponsoring some costs of training for the instructors, but it will be offset by the tremendous amount of savings by having more pilots on the local package.
Overall, I think this will be financially beneficial to CX. They will end up hiring more cadets, less DESOs, and reduce salary expenses for pilots.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Yeah, I've been told that those rumors of having 3 CPPs this year isn't happening due to lack of training staff at FTA. But Cx could ofcourse just have people do this, pass them through, let them convert licenses, get their instructor rating, and then get REALLY picky when they eventually get their class 2. They could get lots of students trained during the time between an instructor's time from class 3 to 2 and then not giving them a job.
And Cx doesn't save money if the cadet pilots are so fed up with the substantially lower pay they leave soon after the program. =P
And Cx doesn't save money if the cadet pilots are so fed up with the substantially lower pay they leave soon after the program. =P
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Has anyone seen the full list of Terms and Conditions for the Short Program?
I'd be very curious to see what the details are.
How much money does the instructor have to pay?
What if you quit the program after 1 year? Do you have to pay money back?
What's the package like?
When are they going to make selections?
I'd be very curious to see what the details are.
How much money does the instructor have to pay?
What if you quit the program after 1 year? Do you have to pay money back?
What's the package like?
When are they going to make selections?
Join Date: May 2005
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can anyone think about the reason why they set up this program??
firstly, they are desperate for pilots, that's for sure
second, i think they want to limit their batches each year. if i were the company, i would prefer hiring instructors instead of cadets with 200 hrs.
third, they want to reduce the expense on cadets.
there's rumor saying Da11 will be last CPP.
for me, i will definitely try coz i want to leave canada and have a new start somewhere.
i will e-mail for further info.
firstly, they are desperate for pilots, that's for sure
second, i think they want to limit their batches each year. if i were the company, i would prefer hiring instructors instead of cadets with 200 hrs.
third, they want to reduce the expense on cadets.
there's rumor saying Da11 will be last CPP.
for me, i will definitely try coz i want to leave canada and have a new start somewhere.
i will e-mail for further info.
Also your comment, "if i were the company, i would prefer hiring instructors instead of cadets with 200 hrs", is a little degrading to the cadets scheme. I highly doubted any instructor with a few hundred hours on a single engine aircraft will be any better than a cadets with 200 hours. At Cathay, you need to reach a certain standard (be it during your time at Adelaide or back in Hong Kong), so if you don't meet the standard, you are out, doesn't matter if you are a cadet or someone with a few thousands of hours. In fact, I have heard some expat SO get wash out because they did not meet the Cathay standard. So it does not make any difference if you are an instructor or not. Also, the fact that with this new program, those same instructors will probably start instructing with probably less than 200 hours in their belt, that actually reduce my confidence on them on doing a good job.
This program is simply a desperate act of FTA parts to retain instructor. It is also a way for Cathay to ensure FTA will output enough Cadets for the airlines and also have a hand full more pilots each year for Cathay from the instructor side...
What's really bad though is the fact that those instructor will now get expat benefits. There used to be a saying that, the reason why cadet don't get housing was because Cathay pay for their training and that they get to join directly into a major airlines instead of having to work their way up through the regional routes. Now, you will get people who will join Cathay with experience similar to cadet but with better benefits. What will everyone say about employment equality now? I have always been very understanding on Cathay prospective of not providing expat benefits to cadet but now, with this new scheme, I think cadet should be getting the same benefit as those who join from the FTA/CPA sponsor scheme. It is a matter of fair treatment!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Heard that the LPA recently went to management asking for housing/pay similiar to what the DragonAir cadets are getting. Management responded saying that if they gave housing, they'd have to give it to all the secretaries then...
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sorry for my previous comment, no offence to anyone or any companies.
the reasons why i asked coz they will spend extra money on other program so that's why i was wondering if they cut budget on other stuff.
but will the instructor taking that program be focusing on training CX cadets?? or for everyone in the college?
i can't believe the college is so desperate for instructors same as CX. Since they don't have further info coming out. don't know what's the possibility of being hired by CX after 42 months? will they offer a contract to state the terms??
anywayz, it's good opportunity for everyone since CPP is not the only opportunity to get into CX.
i applied already see if i have the chance to be one of them.
the reasons why i asked coz they will spend extra money on other program so that's why i was wondering if they cut budget on other stuff.
but will the instructor taking that program be focusing on training CX cadets?? or for everyone in the college?
i can't believe the college is so desperate for instructors same as CX. Since they don't have further info coming out. don't know what's the possibility of being hired by CX after 42 months? will they offer a contract to state the terms??
anywayz, it's good opportunity for everyone since CPP is not the only opportunity to get into CX.
i applied already see if i have the chance to be one of them.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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To me the big issue is how many instructors will actually be able to complete the full 42 months.
That's a very long time to spend in a 152 or a Duchess or something.
I can easily see the instructors being eager to begin with, but after a year or two, their enthusiasm for the job will really wane just from the tedium of doing circuits all day.
I've seen it a million times before in instructors...
That's a very long time to spend in a 152 or a Duchess or something.
I can easily see the instructors being eager to begin with, but after a year or two, their enthusiasm for the job will really wane just from the tedium of doing circuits all day.
I've seen it a million times before in instructors...
Join Date: Nov 2006
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depends .
if u have to sign a contract in order to work for them
u have no way out
unless u pay some money to break the contract.
otherwise, it's a possibility
besides, if they are young enough, just be patient, 3,4 years is not too long if u know u will be flying a big jet in the future.
if u have to sign a contract in order to work for them
u have no way out
unless u pay some money to break the contract.
otherwise, it's a possibility
besides, if they are young enough, just be patient, 3,4 years is not too long if u know u will be flying a big jet in the future.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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hey guys Im currently holding a frozen FAA CPL (muti engine instrument rated) but heard that its kinda hard to convert it into their licenses. Just wondering like if its possible to convert it or I gotta do it all over again. Thanks n good luck bros!
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If you're a "starting out" pilot then I see it as a good thing.
So what if you spend a few years at FTA, at least if nothing else comes up in the meantime you have an instructor job that pays well, probably the best paying one in Oz. If you get the nod from QF or VB after 2 years, take that job. People have spent far more time than 3.5 years in the bush doing crappy jobs waiting for that illusive airline job.
I know that if when I worked at FTA they had this scheme, I would have done it for sure.
So what if you spend a few years at FTA, at least if nothing else comes up in the meantime you have an instructor job that pays well, probably the best paying one in Oz. If you get the nod from QF or VB after 2 years, take that job. People have spent far more time than 3.5 years in the bush doing crappy jobs waiting for that illusive airline job.
I know that if when I worked at FTA they had this scheme, I would have done it for sure.
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Apparently it takes about 8 months to get your grade 2 instructor rating and since your 42 month secondment only starts at grade 2, that puts the entire course duration at about 5.5 years! 
Swush
Incorrect. It should take about 6 months.
Incorrect. It should take about 6 months.
CAO SECTION 40.1.7
4.2 An applicant for the issue of a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating grade 2 must:
(a) hold or have held a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating grade 3 for at least 6 months; and
(b) have logged at least 200 hours flight time, in a registered aeroplane or a recognised aeroplane, instructing in other than the navigational sequences specified in the aeroplane syllabus that are relevant to the private pilot (aeroplane) licence; and
(c) have logged at least 50 hours flight time, in a registered aeroplane or a recognised aeroplane, instructing in navigational sequences specified in the aeroplane syllabus; and
(d) be recommended by the chief flying instructor; and
(e) have passed a flight test conducted by CASA, an approved testing officer or an approved person in accordance with the Grade 2 instructor rating
flight test report form.
4.2.1 Before recommending an applicant for the issue of a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating grade 2, the chief flying instructor must be satisfied that the applicant is capable of instructing to and assessing the standard required for pilots to fly solo.
4.2 An applicant for the issue of a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating grade 2 must:
(a) hold or have held a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating grade 3 for at least 6 months; and
(b) have logged at least 200 hours flight time, in a registered aeroplane or a recognised aeroplane, instructing in other than the navigational sequences specified in the aeroplane syllabus that are relevant to the private pilot (aeroplane) licence; and
(c) have logged at least 50 hours flight time, in a registered aeroplane or a recognised aeroplane, instructing in navigational sequences specified in the aeroplane syllabus; and
(d) be recommended by the chief flying instructor; and
(e) have passed a flight test conducted by CASA, an approved testing officer or an approved person in accordance with the Grade 2 instructor rating
flight test report form.
4.2.1 Before recommending an applicant for the issue of a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating grade 2, the chief flying instructor must be satisfied that the applicant is capable of instructing to and assessing the standard required for pilots to fly solo.
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I'd like to point out something that might seem a little obvious, but Cx probably won't be looking for people under 20 for this program. It seems awkward to be taught by someone who is 19. It's hard for someone that age to command respect. And if you did get in when you were 19, you'd be living off somewhat horrible wages for 4-5 years. It's going to hurt.
Though cadets don't have a choice, but it would be really weird to be taught by an instructor who maybe at the same age or younger.
Currently I'm deciding whether or not to get my instructor rating in Canada. I'm 19 and from what I've seen, no one likes getting taught by someone too young, even if they're 15 and their parents are forcing them into flying, they'd rather fly with the older instructors.
Though cadets don't have a choice, but it would be really weird to be taught by an instructor who maybe at the same age or younger.
Currently I'm deciding whether or not to get my instructor rating in Canada. I'm 19 and from what I've seen, no one likes getting taught by someone too young, even if they're 15 and their parents are forcing them into flying, they'd rather fly with the older instructors.
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Age should not be an issue.
This is an industry where there could be a 30-year-old Captain flying with a 50-year-old First Officer.
One of FTA's instructor just turned 20 last week, and he has been instructing cadets for at least 6 months. There are training managers who are in their early twenties.
I had students who were twice my age, never had a problem with respect.
It's all about how you carry yourself.
This is an industry where there could be a 30-year-old Captain flying with a 50-year-old First Officer.
One of FTA's instructor just turned 20 last week, and he has been instructing cadets for at least 6 months. There are training managers who are in their early twenties.
I had students who were twice my age, never had a problem with respect.
It's all about how you carry yourself.
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Midget,
You are probably not from Australia then as the wages at FTA (when I was there) are the best wages you'll earn (as an instructor) in Australia.
It's OK to say it doesn't pay very well when you are already in an airline job, but remember this is aimed at those starting out, and I think it pays well (for that level).
I also worked at an Australian Regional which was only a AUD$6000 p.a. pay rise!
you'd be living off somewhat horrible wages for 4-5 years. It's going to hurt.
It's OK to say it doesn't pay very well when you are already in an airline job, but remember this is aimed at those starting out, and I think it pays well (for that level).
I also worked at an Australian Regional which was only a AUD$6000 p.a. pay rise!
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Midget,
I'd have to disagree. For those starting out, just like I did, is was good pay and great experience. It didn't hurt one bit!
Many instructors at FTA (and other companies) past and present, are younger than their students and there was never a problem.
you'd be living off somewhat horrible wages for 4-5 years. It's going to hurt.
I'm 19 and from what I've seen, no one likes getting taught by someone too young