Pax service & seat belt sign
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Pax service & seat belt sign
I'm interested in knowing if various airlines in EU, Asia, Africa, and ME allow their cabin crew to do passenger service before turning off the seat belt sign.
Do you allow them to continue service if turbulence is encountered?
Do you allow them to be out of their seats below 10,000 in the descent?
I'm on a campaign to stop the insanity in the US.
Do you allow them to continue service if turbulence is encountered?
Do you allow them to be out of their seats below 10,000 in the descent?
I'm on a campaign to stop the insanity in the US.
UK Procedures
Procedures vary amongst UK airlines, but generally they require cabin crew to remain seated after takeoff until a signal is received from the flight crew allowing them to begin the cabin service. This signal could be a temporary off/on selection of the fasten seat belt signs, or it could be a brief PA such as 'cabin crew released'.
Now, the fasten seat belts signs may still be illuminated at this point, possibly because the pilots expect the aircraft to encounter turbulence or possibly because company policy dictates that the signs must always be 'on' whenever the aircraft is below a specific altitude or flight level.
At other times, such as when the aircraft is above the specified altitude or flight level and turbulence is encountered or anticipated, after the fasten seat belt signs have been switched 'on' the pilots will probably not instruct the cabin crew to secure the trolleys and strap in unless they (the pilots) consider that the turbulence is likely to pose a particular threat to cabin crew safety. Then of course, they will instruct the cabin crew to do just that.
There is no '10,000' ft rule in the UK relating to cabin crew movement. If there were, on some of the shorter sectors that are so great a feature of European commercial flight operations, there would be scarcely any service at all!
Hope this helps.
Now, the fasten seat belts signs may still be illuminated at this point, possibly because the pilots expect the aircraft to encounter turbulence or possibly because company policy dictates that the signs must always be 'on' whenever the aircraft is below a specific altitude or flight level.
At other times, such as when the aircraft is above the specified altitude or flight level and turbulence is encountered or anticipated, after the fasten seat belt signs have been switched 'on' the pilots will probably not instruct the cabin crew to secure the trolleys and strap in unless they (the pilots) consider that the turbulence is likely to pose a particular threat to cabin crew safety. Then of course, they will instruct the cabin crew to do just that.
There is no '10,000' ft rule in the UK relating to cabin crew movement. If there were, on some of the shorter sectors that are so great a feature of European commercial flight operations, there would be scarcely any service at all!
Hope this helps.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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Nugget90
I would be interested in a Lawyer's view of this one. Many years ago I seem to remember an article in The Log (BALPA) saying that if the commander allowed the cabin staff to move around with the seatbelt sign on (other than to secure the cabin) be it on his head. Of course the company would like the cabin staff to continue working with the seatbelt sign on - but that is another matter nothing to do with the legality of the situation.
Any aviation lawyers around?
I would be interested in a Lawyer's view of this one. Many years ago I seem to remember an article in The Log (BALPA) saying that if the commander allowed the cabin staff to move around with the seatbelt sign on (other than to secure the cabin) be it on his head. Of course the company would like the cabin staff to continue working with the seatbelt sign on - but that is another matter nothing to do with the legality of the situation.
Any aviation lawyers around?
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I've said to CC the seat belt sign stays on but you can work at the discretion of the CC chief - I doubt if this would clear me in the legal sense but it did mean that they were not being told to work regardless and that if they stopped it was no problem.
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When I flew for JAL, the flight attendants were seated any time the fasten seat belt sign was on.
Now that I am back in the States, I can't believe some of the stuff I am seeing. Take a look at www.ntsb.gov and you will see at least one flight attendant or passenger each month receiving a serious injury from turbulence.
On one flight, I was flying non-rev and witnessed two flight attendants serving in moderate turbulence in a thunderstorm, and they thought it was funny. Poor judgment.
Now that I am back in the States, I can't believe some of the stuff I am seeing. Take a look at www.ntsb.gov and you will see at least one flight attendant or passenger each month receiving a serious injury from turbulence.
On one flight, I was flying non-rev and witnessed two flight attendants serving in moderate turbulence in a thunderstorm, and they thought it was funny. Poor judgment.
Last edited by Tex; 18th Mar 2003 at 12:53.
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Yikes...!
Some years ago was enroute CMB-NRT and had told the CC to keep seated as the seat belt sign would remain on for awhile due to weather enroute for the first 30 minutes or so.
Unknown to me, about three minutes after takeoff, the CC in the aft cabin started service....and upon encountering severe turbulence, one whole drinks cart was turned upsidedown, resulting in many smashed bottles. Fortunately, no one was injured.
It pays to listen to 'd boss.
Some never learn.
Unknown to me, about three minutes after takeoff, the CC in the aft cabin started service....and upon encountering severe turbulence, one whole drinks cart was turned upsidedown, resulting in many smashed bottles. Fortunately, no one was injured.
It pays to listen to 'd boss.
Some never learn.
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Big Airways Flight Crew Orders comment on the fact that the seat belt sign does not apply to the cabin crew. The only significance is that hot drinks must not be served. The crew will only remain seated if specifically briefed by the flight crew.
On most fleets the seat belt signs are suppose to be considered with the after TO checks..but personally think FL100 would be a better bet.
On most fleets the seat belt signs are suppose to be considered with the after TO checks..but personally think FL100 would be a better bet.
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Typically in the UK outfits I have worked for
-We can get up as soon as we receive a double dong from the front end (normally about a minute after rotate)
-Anything but light turb the belts go on and hot drinks service ceases
-Below 10,000 ; depends on whether we get four dongs (normally about 5 mins before landing -varies from 10 mins to 1 min before -dep on memory)
-We can get up as soon as we receive a double dong from the front end (normally about a minute after rotate)
-Anything but light turb the belts go on and hot drinks service ceases
-Below 10,000 ; depends on whether we get four dongs (normally about 5 mins before landing -varies from 10 mins to 1 min before -dep on memory)
I get the impression that on some short-haul flights, the seat belt signs are also left on until the cabin crew have had time to finish serving drinks etc, without too many pax blocking the aisle. This was evident on two recent 1hr European flights; not a hint of turbulence, yet the signs were only off for about 20 minutes. Not a problem, I'm happy to stay strapped in for the duration.
Paxing All Over The World
On short haul, it is a real problem for carriers - especially those that want to offer a 'full service'.
Increasingly, I hear the f/c announce that c/c may commence duties but expressly telling pax to stay put. C/c are then out of seats like bullets.
Last week I was on a BA 'ultra' short haul. Sector is always stated as being an hour but, on LTN~IOM in the 146, wheels-to-wheels is usually 50 mins, giving c/c a big problem.
On this occasions, the w-2-w was 45 mins and they managed to get bar service and tea/coffee/snack trolley done and dusted!! To be frank, I don't know that it's worth it. One trolley run is more than sufficient on such short sectors. The c/c did very well - as always.
Let's keep the c/c in their seats until we are well established, say Fl500? But, in the domestic UK that would limit service time and the full service carriers are too desperate for that.
I would rather they just did the bar service (forget the weak tea!) and reduce the price of the ticket.
Increasingly, I hear the f/c announce that c/c may commence duties but expressly telling pax to stay put. C/c are then out of seats like bullets.
Last week I was on a BA 'ultra' short haul. Sector is always stated as being an hour but, on LTN~IOM in the 146, wheels-to-wheels is usually 50 mins, giving c/c a big problem.
On this occasions, the w-2-w was 45 mins and they managed to get bar service and tea/coffee/snack trolley done and dusted!! To be frank, I don't know that it's worth it. One trolley run is more than sufficient on such short sectors. The c/c did very well - as always.
Let's keep the c/c in their seats until we are well established, say Fl500? But, in the domestic UK that would limit service time and the full service carriers are too desperate for that.
I would rather they just did the bar service (forget the weak tea!) and reduce the price of the ticket.
