Right hand seat Captains
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Right hand seat Captains
We have probably all come across them or will in are career’s, the F/O that wants to dominate the flight deck and run the show. Finding a diplomatic solution to the problem can sometimes result in safety being compromised with a resulting break down in communications.
I have only come across the situation twice in my career, and as of yet still find it a difficult position to be in and deal with. I would be interested to know how other people have dealt with this problem so if it ever happens again, I will be a little bit better prepared.
I have only come across the situation twice in my career, and as of yet still find it a difficult position to be in and deal with. I would be interested to know how other people have dealt with this problem so if it ever happens again, I will be a little bit better prepared.
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Always a difficult one, you are dealing with an Alpha male who is not quite in the Alpha position yet!
I am not suggesting that my way is the only one, not by any means, but I did use it a few times and it worked.
The biggest transition when getting a command is the transition of the mind, from happy go lucky, not a care in the world, F/O to On-Your-Own-Captain. Suddenly realising that when things go wrong the eyes of the world are upon you and you are going to have to get things right again.
I used to engage the F/O in conversation about time to command, preparedness etc. and then on the sector(s) you are going to give them tell them, that just for a bit of practice, you would like them to run the show, however, you will reserve your right to intervene if necessary, in the interest of safety and SOP.
Then note every deviation etc. and offer no help until it is asked for, weather, notams, diversion policy, handling cabin problems with the CC, fuel planning, briefing, tech log, load sheet, notices to crew, dealing with ground staff, ATC - (both on the ground and in the air), use your discretion, obviously to ensure a safe operation but let them get an idea of what it really is like and not how they fondly imagine it to be from their secure and trouble free perch on the right hand side. Afterwards a complete debrief of how it went.
I am sure we will get a few guys/girls who will say, "we already do everything anyway" but, in truth, that rarely happens.
I am not suggesting that my way is the only one, not by any means, but I did use it a few times and it worked.
The biggest transition when getting a command is the transition of the mind, from happy go lucky, not a care in the world, F/O to On-Your-Own-Captain. Suddenly realising that when things go wrong the eyes of the world are upon you and you are going to have to get things right again.
I used to engage the F/O in conversation about time to command, preparedness etc. and then on the sector(s) you are going to give them tell them, that just for a bit of practice, you would like them to run the show, however, you will reserve your right to intervene if necessary, in the interest of safety and SOP.
Then note every deviation etc. and offer no help until it is asked for, weather, notams, diversion policy, handling cabin problems with the CC, fuel planning, briefing, tech log, load sheet, notices to crew, dealing with ground staff, ATC - (both on the ground and in the air), use your discretion, obviously to ensure a safe operation but let them get an idea of what it really is like and not how they fondly imagine it to be from their secure and trouble free perch on the right hand side. Afterwards a complete debrief of how it went.
I am sure we will get a few guys/girls who will say, "we already do everything anyway" but, in truth, that rarely happens.
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Blue Eagle,
That is an excellant idea. In our company however, we have a
certain individual who was a turboprop captain, he was promoted on to our jet fleet and failed the conversion course.
He is now an F/O and has been for a number of years .
This guy is difficult to fly with to say the least. If you are unfortunate to be rostered together over a 3 or 4 day period then its an absolute nightmare, progressively getting worse as the days go by.
Your technique has been tried on this "character" by various training captains but unfortunately to no avail. His self regard is that,he is better than he really is .
He is an expert in niff naff and trivia, all the peripheral stuff tending to lose the plot, taking his eye of off the ball so to speak.
I suppose persistance on our part with encouragement at the appropriate time must be order of the day.
Any more advice on this one would be truly appreciated
That is an excellant idea. In our company however, we have a
certain individual who was a turboprop captain, he was promoted on to our jet fleet and failed the conversion course.
He is now an F/O and has been for a number of years .
This guy is difficult to fly with to say the least. If you are unfortunate to be rostered together over a 3 or 4 day period then its an absolute nightmare, progressively getting worse as the days go by.
Your technique has been tried on this "character" by various training captains but unfortunately to no avail. His self regard is that,he is better than he really is .
He is an expert in niff naff and trivia, all the peripheral stuff tending to lose the plot, taking his eye of off the ball so to speak.
I suppose persistance on our part with encouragement at the appropriate time must be order of the day.
Any more advice on this one would be truly appreciated
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Are there any other Captains that have trouble with him? Maybe they know of some techniqes that would work with the guy. Or try talking to him about it. If that doesn't work he may need some advice from the chief pilot.
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Hmmm, perhaps look for a new job might be a wise suggestion from the Chief Pilot.
Can recall some years ago had a First Officer who had been with a HKG based carrier for awhile before ah...leaving, and he certainly had his own way of doing things. Finally in the end, handed him the AOM, the one that said Lockheed-California Company on the front cover, and suggested that he read same in order to re-organise his thinking.
Can recall some years ago had a First Officer who had been with a HKG based carrier for awhile before ah...leaving, and he certainly had his own way of doing things. Finally in the end, handed him the AOM, the one that said Lockheed-California Company on the front cover, and suggested that he read same in order to re-organise his thinking.
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Smokie - Yes, I should have said that not only is my method not the only one but that it doesn't always work!
Frankly someone who has themself been a captian and is now a F/O should know better and I think I might be inclined to point this out to them. The 3 to 4 day trip is going to be hell one way or the other so get in first, read the riot act and get your colleagues to do the same, either he will get the message or management will! If you are less than an effective two crew team because of his attitude/behaviour then he is a flight safety hazard anyway and needs to understand this and correct it.
I can think of a couple of airlines where using the 411A method would not help as these lads knew the theory backwards, it was turning it into something practical that was the problem!
[As an afterthought Smokie, next time as you settle into your seats casually briefly wave an official looking form in the air and say, "Oh, by the way, I've been asked to do a confidential report, attitude, adherence to SOP, general performance, you know the sort of thing, just thought I'd let you know, seems unfair to do these things in secret"
]
Frankly someone who has themself been a captian and is now a F/O should know better and I think I might be inclined to point this out to them. The 3 to 4 day trip is going to be hell one way or the other so get in first, read the riot act and get your colleagues to do the same, either he will get the message or management will! If you are less than an effective two crew team because of his attitude/behaviour then he is a flight safety hazard anyway and needs to understand this and correct it.
I can think of a couple of airlines where using the 411A method would not help as these lads knew the theory backwards, it was turning it into something practical that was the problem!
[As an afterthought Smokie, next time as you settle into your seats casually briefly wave an official looking form in the air and say, "Oh, by the way, I've been asked to do a confidential report, attitude, adherence to SOP, general performance, you know the sort of thing, just thought I'd let you know, seems unfair to do these things in secret"
]
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Accidentally solved this one once by using dazzling courtesy and charm ... and taking absolutely no notice whatever of the gentleman's grumpiness and bitterness - pretended I just hadn't noticed!
I say accidentally, because I was handed a gift on a plate - he made a real blunder that I had to dig him out of - and I was so nice about it that he was saying "Must have a beer together sometime" at the end of the day!
These guys are mercifully few and far between, but they are bl@@dy tiring because you end up doing all the work to get them 'onside'
I say accidentally, because I was handed a gift on a plate - he made a real blunder that I had to dig him out of - and I was so nice about it that he was saying "Must have a beer together sometime" at the end of the day!
These guys are mercifully few and far between, but they are bl@@dy tiring because you end up doing all the work to get them 'onside'
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Working for the airline that doesn't recruit FOs - it recruits 'Captains for the Future' I get told on an almost daily basis "right, your sector, you're running the show." On the few occasions that I am not told this it is because I am expected to know that my sector means I make all of the decisions except in emergency situations. (I, and my FO colleagues, are all perfectly capable of dealing with dispatchers, engineers, fuel decisions, cabin crew, and most minor situations that involve the QRH. Unfortunately for us it is apparent that not all cabin crew, dispatchers etc are used to dealing with FOs in the P1 role.) The FO in a p1(us) role is a process that works very well when all of the pilots of both ranks in the company have a good understanding of CRM and the company's expectations of you, and makes the transition form RHS to LHS much easier. I appreciate that the captain still has overall command but they are not there in a training capacity. This is just the way BA works, and in the past FOs in command on the flight deck have saved the day. (Think Nairobi, Tim Lancaster - and these are just the high profile cases.)
Of course if the FO in question is just a totally unbearable person, tell them. It can only help them, rather than hearing they have a reputation on the grapevine.
Of course if the FO in question is just a totally unbearable person, tell them. It can only help them, rather than hearing they have a reputation on the grapevine.
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Well, as I said in an earlier post, there will be guys and/or girls who will say, "we already do everything anyway" but let us not forget that, as an F/O, you will be acting under guidance and supervision and without ultimate reponsibility.
It is that lack of ultimate reponsibility that is the difference between the two jobs.
My suggestion to Jimmy Neutron is to try and replicate, as far as possible, the full extent of the captains job for his troublesome F/O but, of course, the one thing he cannot replicate is the inherent pressure that goes with the LHS.
It is that lack of ultimate reponsibility that is the difference between the two jobs.
My suggestion to Jimmy Neutron is to try and replicate, as far as possible, the full extent of the captains job for his troublesome F/O but, of course, the one thing he cannot replicate is the inherent pressure that goes with the LHS.
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BlueEagle,
I am aware of what you wrote earlier, but as I said earlier I am aware that the captain has ultimate responsibilty. What I am trying to say in a tactful-FO-pointing-out-the-bl00dy-obvious is that you cannot have it both ways. You cannot have a captain who refuses to take part in any desicion making process when the FO is P1 because it is not in his job description, followed by a captain who won't even let you make the decision of how many sugars you have in your tea. I am expected to take full responsibilty for amy actions in my job and I have only ever been told to take more responsibilty by captains, not less.
If I worked for a company where I was expected to behave like a doormat right up until the magic day I get an extra stripe I would behave like one. But in BA the training department like to be able to tell the difference between a FO and a doormat.
Believe me, if you have ever been called by the SESMA rep/flight crew manager to explain why you, as FO, did not stop the captain doing something stupid you would realise that although ultimate responsibilty does lie with the captain, FOs are more than just passengers, and are only treated as such by the type of captain that quite frankly needs an FO to keep their eye on them.
Since this forum is supposed to extol the virtues of CRM why not both seats look at the fact that captain and FO are a team, not master and slave, and realise that at the end of the day if it all goes wrong either one can drag the other down or lift the other out of the mess.
I am aware of what you wrote earlier, but as I said earlier I am aware that the captain has ultimate responsibilty. What I am trying to say in a tactful-FO-pointing-out-the-bl00dy-obvious is that you cannot have it both ways. You cannot have a captain who refuses to take part in any desicion making process when the FO is P1 because it is not in his job description, followed by a captain who won't even let you make the decision of how many sugars you have in your tea. I am expected to take full responsibilty for amy actions in my job and I have only ever been told to take more responsibilty by captains, not less.
If I worked for a company where I was expected to behave like a doormat right up until the magic day I get an extra stripe I would behave like one. But in BA the training department like to be able to tell the difference between a FO and a doormat.
Believe me, if you have ever been called by the SESMA rep/flight crew manager to explain why you, as FO, did not stop the captain doing something stupid you would realise that although ultimate responsibilty does lie with the captain, FOs are more than just passengers, and are only treated as such by the type of captain that quite frankly needs an FO to keep their eye on them.
Since this forum is supposed to extol the virtues of CRM why not both seats look at the fact that captain and FO are a team, not master and slave, and realise that at the end of the day if it all goes wrong either one can drag the other down or lift the other out of the mess.
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Pandora, firstly the FO is never P1. He is, at best, P1/s when he is PF.
Yes, there are captains around that need FOs to keep an eye on them, just as the reverse is true. We are a team up there. I expect to have to do my best to look after and look out for my FO, and hope that he will do the same for me. That way we'll stay out of trouble and we'll run a good flight.
Your airline is not interested in recruiting people who don't have what it takes to command. That is what I understand them when they say they recruit "Captains for the future". Before then they have a LOT of learning to do, and very little of it concerns how to fly or how to operate the aircraft. FOs who consider and act as if they know it all, they can do it all without the captain's help, who are there because some captains shouldn't be let out alone are DANGEROUS. Arrogance is dangerous in either seat.
The name of the game is CRM.
Yes, you may be able to deal perfectly well with the handling agents, the CSD, whoever. However, you are doing so under the eye of the Captain. Don't get upset if he steps in and spoils the party. Because, when it all goes for a ball of chalk, it is the Captain's rear end on the line. Not yours, no matter what he may say to you, no matter what your company says.
Yes, there are captains around that need FOs to keep an eye on them, just as the reverse is true. We are a team up there. I expect to have to do my best to look after and look out for my FO, and hope that he will do the same for me. That way we'll stay out of trouble and we'll run a good flight.
Your airline is not interested in recruiting people who don't have what it takes to command. That is what I understand them when they say they recruit "Captains for the future". Before then they have a LOT of learning to do, and very little of it concerns how to fly or how to operate the aircraft. FOs who consider and act as if they know it all, they can do it all without the captain's help, who are there because some captains shouldn't be let out alone are DANGEROUS. Arrogance is dangerous in either seat.
The name of the game is CRM.
Yes, you may be able to deal perfectly well with the handling agents, the CSD, whoever. However, you are doing so under the eye of the Captain. Don't get upset if he steps in and spoils the party. Because, when it all goes for a ball of chalk, it is the Captain's rear end on the line. Not yours, no matter what he may say to you, no matter what your company says.
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Pandora - I endorse everything that my colleague Captain Stable has said and would only add that we are not discussing the 99.9% of F/O's who do a bog standard operation and the whole show goes off without a hitch.
We are discussing that other .1% who can be very troublesome and non-standard in both their attitiude and operation to the point that the captain could become sufficiently distracted if he let himself and a flight safety incident may occur. At the risk of repeating myself, (and stating the obvious), what I have already made perfectly clear is that my suggestions would only apply as a possible means of bringing that tiny, errant minority into line with SOP.
If you read my original post you will see that I never advocated a captain who 'refused' to take part in any of the decision making process, only one who allowed the F/O to run the show and would only offer help if it was requested or required to maintain safety or SOP in order that this F/O could more fully appreciate what really being in command, (and not P1u/s Pretend), was all about and after the experience might more readily fall into line with the other 99.9% to produce a smooth team.
If you happen to work in an environment where such situations as mentioned by Smokie and Jimmy Neutron simply cannot exists then good for you, no problem F/Os and no problem captains but unfortunately that situation is very often not the case.
We are discussing that other .1% who can be very troublesome and non-standard in both their attitiude and operation to the point that the captain could become sufficiently distracted if he let himself and a flight safety incident may occur. At the risk of repeating myself, (and stating the obvious), what I have already made perfectly clear is that my suggestions would only apply as a possible means of bringing that tiny, errant minority into line with SOP.
If you read my original post you will see that I never advocated a captain who 'refused' to take part in any of the decision making process, only one who allowed the F/O to run the show and would only offer help if it was requested or required to maintain safety or SOP in order that this F/O could more fully appreciate what really being in command, (and not P1u/s Pretend), was all about and after the experience might more readily fall into line with the other 99.9% to produce a smooth team.
If you happen to work in an environment where such situations as mentioned by Smokie and Jimmy Neutron simply cannot exists then good for you, no problem F/Os and no problem captains but unfortunately that situation is very often not the case.
It was interesting as an FO to never listen to chats between Captains and Dispatchers, while monitoring ATC, other than small bits of Dispatchers' replies. My first call to Dispatch as Captain, was after being FO for over 13 years. I offered an FO (ex-AF, had been on exchange once with RAF Training Command) the chance to talk to Dispatch and he was not interested.
Another FO appreciated the chance to quickly fill out an MEL deferral ('M or O'), writing comments into LIDS, while filling out placard for inside of logbook cover, putting ther sticker by the inop switch, as we sat burning fuel after pushback. He will remember this when he is Captain, though the newer ones here were all "Captain" (on various regional turboprops, 737, F-100, tuboprop+ [rare American] type-rated FO on Cathay 777/744, Eva 744, F/A-18,C-141+Lear, C-5...) for at least 4-6 years or more.
Another FO appreciated the chance to quickly fill out an MEL deferral ('M or O'), writing comments into LIDS, while filling out placard for inside of logbook cover, putting ther sticker by the inop switch, as we sat burning fuel after pushback. He will remember this when he is Captain, though the newer ones here were all "Captain" (on various regional turboprops, 737, F-100, tuboprop+ [rare American] type-rated FO on Cathay 777/744, Eva 744, F/A-18,C-141+Lear, C-5...) for at least 4-6 years or more.
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Good points, IO.
I was told many years ago that FOs are "Captains In Training". The emphasis, of course, is on the "In Training" part. If they are never shown how to do things the skipper always handles, then the learning curve on their command course is going to be a little steeper than it might be.
Absolutely nothing wrong with them handling "Captain" stuff, initially under close supervision. But that does not mean that they are taking responsibility (or rather, accountability) for such matters.
In one company for whom I used to work, it was company policy that only the Captain did the walk-round. I was flying once with a fairly senior FO who was within a month of his command course. I asked him if he'd ever done a walk-round, and he said no, so I asked him if he wanted to do the walkround with me, to start to get a feel of what we were looking for. His rely was in the negative. Ah well - I tried. Yet he behaved (when PF) as if I was surplus to requirements in all his dealings with cabin crew, dispatchers, etc. He was one of the very few who wanted the four stripes and the sex-appeal and people to call him "Captain" (and the pay packet) but was not interested in the least in the responsibility that went with it.
I was told many years ago that FOs are "Captains In Training". The emphasis, of course, is on the "In Training" part. If they are never shown how to do things the skipper always handles, then the learning curve on their command course is going to be a little steeper than it might be.
Absolutely nothing wrong with them handling "Captain" stuff, initially under close supervision. But that does not mean that they are taking responsibility (or rather, accountability) for such matters.
In one company for whom I used to work, it was company policy that only the Captain did the walk-round. I was flying once with a fairly senior FO who was within a month of his command course. I asked him if he'd ever done a walk-round, and he said no, so I asked him if he wanted to do the walkround with me, to start to get a feel of what we were looking for. His rely was in the negative. Ah well - I tried. Yet he behaved (when PF) as if I was surplus to requirements in all his dealings with cabin crew, dispatchers, etc. He was one of the very few who wanted the four stripes and the sex-appeal and people to call him "Captain" (and the pay packet) but was not interested in the least in the responsibility that went with it.
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Captain Stable,
I understand what you mean by "the FO is never P1..." but in the airline I work for all pilots qualify to 'P1 Standard' in training (although a few may be deemed unfit for command at the time).
We also fly many longer range sectors, during which the 'legal' captain is asleep in the bunk and may not be available for some time in an emergency (they probably wouldn't want to be woken up for some of the more minor problems, anyway).
This means that one of the two FO's must effectively 'take command' of the ship and be aware of all the facets of the operation that a 'proper captain' would normally consider, and be prepared to make decisions with non-trivial consequences.
This is not "I'm just nipping out to the loo, back in a minute, don't touch anything..." but a period of 3-4 hours, possibly over remote/hostile terrain with alternate/MSA/weather/ATC difficulties to contend with (not to mention passengers).
I am happy to report that the vast majority of those I fly with seem to take these responsibilities very seriously and treat the situation as preparation for a 'real' command.
I also note with interest that the CAA have recently ruled that an FO can log P1 time, rather than P1US etc. whilst the operating captain is off duty...
I understand what you mean by "the FO is never P1..." but in the airline I work for all pilots qualify to 'P1 Standard' in training (although a few may be deemed unfit for command at the time).
We also fly many longer range sectors, during which the 'legal' captain is asleep in the bunk and may not be available for some time in an emergency (they probably wouldn't want to be woken up for some of the more minor problems, anyway).
This means that one of the two FO's must effectively 'take command' of the ship and be aware of all the facets of the operation that a 'proper captain' would normally consider, and be prepared to make decisions with non-trivial consequences.
This is not "I'm just nipping out to the loo, back in a minute, don't touch anything..." but a period of 3-4 hours, possibly over remote/hostile terrain with alternate/MSA/weather/ATC difficulties to contend with (not to mention passengers).
I am happy to report that the vast majority of those I fly with seem to take these responsibilities very seriously and treat the situation as preparation for a 'real' command.
I also note with interest that the CAA have recently ruled that an FO can log P1 time, rather than P1US etc. whilst the operating captain is off duty...
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Not unlike in the professional nautical world, Full_Wings, but whether the junior officers like it or not, the Master (Captain) still has the final and complete LEGAL authority.
I personally do not know of ANY civil aviation authority or company where it is any different.
Do you?
Recall a few years ago on a cruise down Mexico way, the second in command was doing the docking, under the watchful eye of the Master. The bow was swinging 'round nicely, hmmm, perhaps just a bit too fast. The Captain grabbed the bow thruster control, and with a swift movement, slowed the ship, pronto.
We had dinner with this officer later that evening and he mentioned that this particular port was difficult at times, and he stated that he was sure glad for the Captains help.
Not unlike the aircarrier world, eh?
I personally do not know of ANY civil aviation authority or company where it is any different.
Do you?
Recall a few years ago on a cruise down Mexico way, the second in command was doing the docking, under the watchful eye of the Master. The bow was swinging 'round nicely, hmmm, perhaps just a bit too fast. The Captain grabbed the bow thruster control, and with a swift movement, slowed the ship, pronto.
We had dinner with this officer later that evening and he mentioned that this particular port was difficult at times, and he stated that he was sure glad for the Captains help.
Not unlike the aircarrier world, eh?
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The first interesting thread I've read here for ages.
Fascinating views from both sides, the only one I'd like to add is that very few LHS pilots seem to appreciate the sheer mental effort and strength of will required to "fit in" with the personality in the LHS God knows what it was like in the days before strict(ish) SOPs and CRM. Personally I'm quite happy to cut these guys some slack because they probably had it much, much worse.
What does irritate however is the (very) occasional character who still thinks it's a one man band. Most of us in the RHS realise that it's not a democracy, but the days of LHS getting the sack and the RHS getting "retrained" are gone I think.
It's a team effort. Isn't it?
Fascinating views from both sides, the only one I'd like to add is that very few LHS pilots seem to appreciate the sheer mental effort and strength of will required to "fit in" with the personality in the LHS
God knows what it was like in the days before strict(ish) SOPs and CRM. Personally I'm quite happy to cut these guys some slack because they probably had it much, much worse.What does irritate however is the (very) occasional character who still thinks it's a one man band. Most of us in the RHS realise that it's not a democracy, but the days of LHS getting the sack and the RHS getting "retrained" are gone I think.
It's a team effort. Isn't it?
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411A,
I agree totally on the legal aspects but (to use your example of a ship), what happens if the Captain is not there? (Asleep, touring the engine room, looking around the hold...). Given the inertia of modern bulk carriers/oil tankers etc. decisions have to be made very quickly in order that they have time to take effect.
To sleep easy in his cabin the Captain must have trust in his subordinates and will have done his best to train/educate them to make better decisions. He will also have delegated power to his officers to make critical choices in his absence.
I only mention all this as I feel the (airline) industry has, in the last few decades, moved decisively away from the 'man and boy' operation of yesteryear to the cooperative and empowering (hate the word) structure of today. This has advanced (in the Western World) to the point where the legalities are pretty much all that is left of the old system. "Shame!" I hear you cry.
What I really wanted to say is that the days of learning how to be an airline captain on your command course are long over. It should be a natural progression and accumulation of experience and wisdom, until you feel confident to take the 'driving seat'. This requires willingness and participation from both sides of the cockpit - and no-one said it was going to be easy!
I agree totally on the legal aspects but (to use your example of a ship), what happens if the Captain is not there? (Asleep, touring the engine room, looking around the hold...). Given the inertia of modern bulk carriers/oil tankers etc. decisions have to be made very quickly in order that they have time to take effect.
To sleep easy in his cabin the Captain must have trust in his subordinates and will have done his best to train/educate them to make better decisions. He will also have delegated power to his officers to make critical choices in his absence.
I only mention all this as I feel the (airline) industry has, in the last few decades, moved decisively away from the 'man and boy' operation of yesteryear to the cooperative and empowering (hate the word) structure of today. This has advanced (in the Western World) to the point where the legalities are pretty much all that is left of the old system. "Shame!" I hear you cry
.What I really wanted to say is that the days of learning how to be an airline captain on your command course are long over. It should be a natural progression and accumulation of experience and wisdom, until you feel confident to take the 'driving seat'. This requires willingness and participation from both sides of the cockpit - and no-one said it was going to be easy!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
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Crackerjack
Rest assured, as F/Os we had to adjust to the whims and ways of the captains we flew with. In the odd case this would eventually produce a new captain who wanted to make his mark and be another individual to contend with but the other 99.9% of new captains would remember how it was for them and make real efforts to be SOP and a nice guy to fly with. Unfortunately, depending on where you work, the days of the captain getting sacked and the F/O 'retrained' are still very much with us in some parts of the world and a trip to jail is sometimes a possibility too!
FullWings Yes in the perfect world the command course of old has been replaced by a transition brought about by education over a suitable period. However, many airlines, including major carriers, still run an assessment phase where a potential captain is under scrutiny from trainers and other approved senior captains as well as his/her record in the SIM being noted. Having been found suitable for command training the individual will then embark on a nine month, (approx) course of supervised line flying and SIM, with up to three distinct pass/fail points before reaching the Final Base Check which will be followed by more line training until eventually the day comes when they do a final line check after which they get promoted.
I can think of four majors off hand that operate a similar system, I am sure there are many more.
FullWings Yes in the perfect world the command course of old has been replaced by a transition brought about by education over a suitable period. However, many airlines, including major carriers, still run an assessment phase where a potential captain is under scrutiny from trainers and other approved senior captains as well as his/her record in the SIM being noted. Having been found suitable for command training the individual will then embark on a nine month, (approx) course of supervised line flying and SIM, with up to three distinct pass/fail points before reaching the Final Base Check which will be followed by more line training until eventually the day comes when they do a final line check after which they get promoted.
I can think of four majors off hand that operate a similar system, I am sure there are many more.