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Should the captain apologise to passengers for bone jarring landing

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Should the captain apologise to passengers for bone jarring landing

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Old 24th Jul 2018, 19:38
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Seems obvious that he should have immediately made an announcement blaming the FO.
As has happened on many an occasion even if it were an autoland!
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 21:17
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Look, every professional pilot does good, "cat peeing on glass" type landings but on some other occasions, often for no discernible reason, real "thumpers". As long as the machine isn't damaged it makes zero difference to anybody's day. The wittiest passenger comment I heard after a firm arrival was "Did we land or were we shot down?"
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 01:53
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PJ

If a picture paints a thousand words, then Centaurus' description "Assault Landing on Innocent Runway" is the exception that proves the rule.

B737 Assault Landing on Innocent Runway

Links to this.


.

Last edited by pithblot; 25th Jul 2018 at 02:04. Reason: Added a functional link to the referenced thread.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 07:31
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The wittiest passenger comment I heard after a firm arrival was "Did we land or were we shot down?"
OK, here we go: No 1 FA: "Welcome to XXX and I think we just struck oil!".
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 14:55
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Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
Wow! In your own words, an excellent flight with excellent service from the cabin crew, then the "pilots" - apparently both of them - ruined your day by maybe taking a last minute instruction from ATC to take the next exit and "expedite", and complying with that possible instruction, all for your safety? And you might have felt a small increased pressure from that lapstrap that you still had fastened. Maybe better not to fasten your belt next time, 'cos you'd never want any discomfort from that ruining your day in a serious emergency, would you?

You've come on here to gripe about some braking which undoubtedly was done for safety and not just for the fun of doing it to ruin your day. It doesn't take much to upset you! Truly awful. I hope you have recovered from what must have been a terrifying and shocking experience. The acceleration on take off can sometimes be a bit severe too, especially on those shorter runways, so maybe complain to the pilots (both of them, remember - jointly and severally guilty of such gross misconduct) about that as well. Everything just for your ultimate comfort, b0II0(&$ to everyone else's safety. Heaven forbid they ever dared an emergency descent after an explosive decompression. "Take it down real slow, we'd never want any complaints from binzer back there, would we". Let everyone pass out with hypoxia rather than upset old 'whinger binzer'!

Might I respectfully suggest only travelling by foot from now on, as cars, even trains sometimes have to brake more sharply than the driver might wish, purely for the safety of their passengers and themselves. Oh, what a rotten world, with cars and trains and planes with brakes, and the drivers / pilots sometimes having to use them.

Might you have over-indulged from the generosity of the cabin crew and this was the real cause of your belly-ache?

Just askin'!
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 16:05
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Grrr

I HAVE flown a lot recently with different airlines mostly legacy, and have noticed a sharp increase in very harsh braking on landing to make a quick turn off - pax and bags and everything else thrown forward and quite disconcerting for many pax -
IMO this is not really a safe normalised procedure of the day as mentioned by someone above
Back in the 1960's I was co-pilot to the Commanding Officer of the RAAF VIP Squadron. The passengers were the then Prime Minister of Australia Sir Robert Menzies. and his wife Dame Pattie Menzies. Sir Robert was a splendid orator and could dismiss political opponents or mouthy constituents with a wonderful turn of phrase.
We were flying a Convair 440 Metropolitan from Canberra to Melbourne's Essendon Airport. It was a gusty windy day landing Runway 35. Wind northerly 20 gusting 35 knots with a crosswind. The CO was over-controlling all the way down to the flare, then see-sawed the control column with huge pull and pushes trying to get a smooth touch-down. He often did that even in no wind and usually greased it. But this was not his day and as co-pilot I was quick to protect my private parts lest the control column squashed them as the CO held off.

We floated and floated and eventually the Convair gave up in disgust and fell on to the runway with a resounding crash which caused the mini-bar cabinet and flower pots to burst open scattering their contents all over the plush VIP carpet. Full reverse made things worse as did the CO's harsh braking and I guess to the Prime Minister it must have seemed mayhem had broken loose. I was certainly impressed at the noise and effectiveness of full reverse and heavy braking. The steward was less than impressed at the broken miniature bottles and smell of whisky. Down the back, both the PM and his wife Dame Patti Menzies hung on for dear life. But we made it and taxied sedately to the VIP tarmac where the PM's Commonwealth car driver was waiting..

It was the habit of the Prime Minister to visit the flight deck before leaving the aircraft and graciously thanking the captain for the flight. The steward opened the flight deck door and the Prime Minister entered and recognised the Commanding Officer in the left seat. With a fixed smile, the CO turned to accept the PM's greeting. His smile soon vanished when Sir Robert said quite gravely, "Thank you, Wing Commander - we arrived here safely despite your efforts."

With that, the PM donned his hat and rugged up against the wind, walked unsteadily down the stairs of the Convair and into the relative safety of his Government limousine. Back in the cockpit I stifled a laugh and pretended not to notice the killer look by my Commanding Officer, who by the way, wore the decoration of the Air Force Cross & Bar; the latter having been recommended by Sir Robert only a few months earlier. He probably regretted it after that landing.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 16:16
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Phil the greek

Famous royal flight on the gripper...chief pilot and head of training, the pair of them famous for tent peg landings which led to the main spars being repaired on the T3 fleet. Probably the blokes responsible for the myth of positive touchdowns needed on wet runways which continues to this day.
After landing in Zagreb...Phil opens the door "If you are looking for your Trident it's up my ar$e"..
No doubt discussed at the next guild knees up...two masters and the president.
ps..P3 told the story for years of how he pulled a CB to allow them to fly at Mdesign to keep the noise down.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 01:20
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and eventually the Convair gave up in disgust and fell on to the runway with a resounding crash

.. a delightful bit of imagery ..
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 11:05
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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It is polite and simple good manners to apologise if one smashes it in. HOWEVER, sadly, we were told that certain passenger toe-rags will make whiplash claims etc. if a PA is made after a heavy landing, so now we don’t say anything, (but I apologise to the crew in the crew bus ).

At Gibralter, a ‘carrier deck’ landing is kind of necessary, and the pax all understand this. Otherwise, have a bit of thought and respect for the structure and components of your aircraft.

Harsh braking though? No. Would you do it in your car for no apparent reason and say nothing to your passengers? In an aircraft; unless you have reached the red and whites and the end of the runway is fast approaching, just go to the next exit. We are supposed to be in control and capable of conducting a smooth flight, so harsh or heavy braking will be regarded as an emergency situation by the passengers who will find it extremely unpleasant. Don’t float halfway down the runway, and don’t deliberately linger, but if the next arrival is too close behind, that is not your problem. (Unless you were asked to make a certain exit - in which case you can plan accordingly - or the flight behind has declared an emergency).




Lots of old jokes about hard landings. My favourite is: “Young man, did we land or were we shot down!?”

Last edited by Uplinker; 22nd Aug 2018 at 11:18. Reason: Added a joke.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 12:02
  #30 (permalink)  

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I was once "landed" at Luton on an MOD trooper flight from Germany. The landing was "more than positive", undoubtedly due to the strong crosswind. Some of the overhead lockers burst open and some oxygen masks self deployed. There were a few loud yells from some pax as the aircraft wagged its tail all the way to a standstill. I was sitting by the front port door, opposite one of the cabin crew and her face was an absolute picture! I did ask her if the co-pilot would be apologising and she just said "Be thankful we're still alive!" I asked if he often landed like that and she just raised her eyebrows!
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 16:39
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Am I the only skipper that apologises and takes the blame even if the fo was on the controls?

I always see it as my fault I let them do a crap one. Plus if it's due bollocks wx I think the punters take it better thinking it's the captain.

That said my worst landings have been in flat calm cavok.. the max xwind, gusty as a night on a veggie curry are always silk even if I want them firmer.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 13:03
  #32 (permalink)  
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It wasn’t my fault, it wasn’t the FOs fault, it wasn’t the aeroplane’s fault it was the......................................................... .....................................Asphalt.
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Old 25th Aug 2018, 10:16
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Was once on a BA 747 back to LHR. Strong gusting cross winds, could feel the aircraft being pushed around at the back. Perfect landing. The Captain came on the PA after landing saying his FO had made the landing and would be available for autographs at the exit door.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 14:58
  #34 (permalink)  
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Re flying I was merely pointing out in the increase of harsh barking used on landing seemingly to enable quick exits off runways
In many cases, company and/or noise abatement requirements dictate pilots only use reverse idle after touch down. So harsh braking to make a quick exit is invariably the usual result.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 16:14
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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How has the profession degraded itself?

How about some of you guys remembering that you are transporting human beings, many of which are frightened of flying, rather than vegetables!
I would say fruit but that needs gentle handling.
So harsh breaking and throwing an aircraft onto and sometimes into the ground is now acceptable?
Or is it a lack of ability or intelligence.
I remember being [email protected] in my early days from hitting every cat's eyes on 28 right by a hairy old captain during a low viz take off.
"Yes ace you've proved that you can keep her in the middle but what do you think our first class passengers are thinking".
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 23:03
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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rog 747

I just read your post and think a bit of harsh barking upon landing is good thing!
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 12:01
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One of my favourite Cabin Crew PA announcements after a bounced landing with quite a lot of float in a Gulf Air F27 was; "Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe that we have completed our final landing at XXXX,.............."
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 22:55
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I never apologize for that. Then again, we freight dogs don't need to...

Cheers
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 18:53
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People complaining about a recent increase in harsh braking events. New airbus aircraft have an autobrake function called BTV (brake to vacate), it seemingly does nothing until very close to the exit you have preselected, it then brakes very harshly to make the exit. As someone who flies a new airbus, I hate it, but we are told to use it as it saves costs as reduces brake wear, it also reduces runway occupancy times. Unfortunately I think you will find it becomes the new norm on new aircraft and so you will notice it more and more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_to_Vacate
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 09:17
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Originally Posted by SloppyJoe View Post
People complaining about a recent increase in harsh braking events. New airbus aircraft have an autobrake function called BTV (brake to vacate), it seemingly does nothing until very close to the exit you have preselected, it then brakes very harshly to make the exit. As someone who flies a new airbus, I hate it, but we are told to use it as it saves costs as reduces brake wear, it also reduces runway occupancy times. Unfortunately I think you will find it becomes the new norm on new aircraft and so you will notice it more and more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_to_Vacate
Ah that explains a lot as many of my recent flights have been in A320 family a/c - The brake to vacate is not kind to passengers !
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