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Should the captain apologise to passengers for bone jarring landing

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Should the captain apologise to passengers for bone jarring landing

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Old 18th Jul 2018, 13:50
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Should the captain apologise to passengers for bone jarring landing

I was a passenger in a bone jarring landing in a 737. There were expressions of alarm from the passengers at the impact. As an experienced airline pilot on type I could only guess that whoever did the landing seriously stuffed up for whatever reason. As the first officer had made a couple of PA's before the approach it suggested he may have been PF. There were mutterings from a couple of passengers saying they will never fly with that airline again. I must admit I understood their sentiments.

Some would argue it would have demonstrated good manners and diplomacy by the captain if he had made an apology on the PA for the landing with even a confected rather than a true explanation what caused the heavy landing?. Or should he have ignored the obvious concerns of the passengers and cabin crew and said nothing (which he did, anyway). A touch of humility or even humour would have been appreciated and maybe the incident laughed off by some passengers as a one/off event.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 13:59
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Once had a FO apologise for a hard landing: "Hope it hasn't spoilt your day as it has mine."
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 14:41
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Originally Posted by Judd View Post
As an experienced airline pilot on type
So, are you not well placed to answer your own question?
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 14:56
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Seems obvious that he should have immediately made an announcement blaming the FO.

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Old 18th Jul 2018, 15:05
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Seems obvious that he should have immediately made an announcement blaming the FO.
Didn't a BA captain once do that and the FO put on the captain's jacket and went to say goodbye to the passengers.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 00:34
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A cabin manager viewpoint here....... no he shouldn't. As crew we occasionally take the mick out of landings but we are taking the mick out of our own.
One of my bug bares is how passengers 'gush' over the pilots (often ignoring the hard working cabin crew who have catered to their every whim for the last X amount of hours) saying how good the landing was etc. At the end of the day, Joe Bloggs doesn't really know what a good/skilled landing is. The same goes for a 'bad landing'. They may not know the circumstances surrounding that landing.... blah blah blah.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 02:38
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Not at all.

The idea that a hard landing equals a bad one is false. What if it was a short runway, wet conditions? I want a firm landing in the touchdown zone thanks not chewing up of the TDZ to get a greaser. I want to touchdown as soon as possible and make the first available high speed exit rather than spend more time on the runway and cause a missed approach behind. This should be communicated to the flying public. Besides what most of them would think is a “hard landing” is just really a firm one within g limits.

Make pilots start apologising for firm landings and then to avoid those apologies they’ll aim for more greasers, which means more overruns and more go arounds due to runway occupancy.

Judging the “success” of a flight by the firmness of the landing is like judging the success of open heart surgery by the quality of the stitching.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 07:04
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Of course you should apologise

It's about respect towards those paying your wages. As to firm landings on short wet runways with ability it's not a problem to get a smooth touchdown and the aquaplanning thingy is a myth propagated by the ignorant in BEA in the 70s which was continued into BA.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 17:29
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Well they should apologise after my flight from Moscow to Geneva the other day. The Swiss cabin crew were excellent for our trip,, then the pilots ruined it with excessive braking, And I’ll answer already,, it was just to make an earlier exit.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 09:03
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Originally Posted by binzer View Post
Well they should apologise after my flight from Moscow to Geneva the other day. The Swiss cabin crew were excellent for our trip,, then the pilots ruined it with excessive braking, And I’ll answer already,, it was just to make an earlier exit.
Wow! In your own words, an excellent flight with excellent service from the cabin crew, then the "pilots" - apparently both of them - ruined your day by maybe taking a last minute instruction from ATC to take the next exit and "expedite", and complying with that possible instruction, all for your safety? And you might have felt a small increased pressure from that lapstrap that you still had fastened. Maybe better not to fasten your belt next time, 'cos you'd never want any discomfort from that ruining your day in a serious emergency, would you?

You've come on here to gripe about some braking which undoubtedly was done for safety and not just for the fun of doing it to ruin your day. It doesn't take much to upset you! Truly awful. I hope you have recovered from what must have been a terrifying and shocking experience. The acceleration on take off can sometimes be a bit severe too, especially on those shorter runways, so maybe complain to the pilots (both of them, remember - jointly and severally guilty of such gross misconduct) about that as well. Everything just for your ultimate comfort, b0II0(&$ to everyone else's safety. Heaven forbid they ever dared an emergency descent after an explosive decompression. "Take it down real slow, we'd never want any complaints from binzer back there, would we". Let everyone pass out with hypoxia rather than upset old 'whinger binzer'!

Might I respectfully suggest only travelling by foot from now on, as cars, even trains sometimes have to brake more sharply than the driver might wish, purely for the safety of their passengers and themselves. Oh, what a rotten world, with cars and trains and planes with brakes, and the drivers / pilots sometimes having to use them.

Might you have over-indulged from the generosity of the cabin crew and this was the real cause of your belly-ache?

Just askin'!
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 12:11
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The Swiss braking technique is an unfortunate mindset

Which existed in the 70s and had something to do with reduce brake pad wear..hit them hard.
Was the main reason for the Athens fatal crash but the captain was a senior officer in the military and the copilot ex luftwaffe starfighters and hence easier to blame.
Nearly ran off the end of an icy Gothenburg with a similar ****...needed boroscope checks afterwards.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 12:53
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No, pilots should not say sorry for a bang down landing -
as the CC usually get on the PA and says Ladies and gentlemen as you may have noticed we have just arrived at XXX
cue -nervous giggles all round

But,
I HAVE flown a lot recently with different airlines mostly legacy, and have noticed a sharp increase in very harsh braking on landing to make a quick turn off - pax and bags and everything else thrown forward and quite disconcerting for many pax -
IMO this is not really a safe normalised procedure of the day as mentioned by someone above - it smacks of saturation of our air space and of 'rushing' as another plane is right up this one's back side and needs to land too so get off the runway PDQ - is that safe ? - not in my opinion but it is pretty standard at almost any busy airport

'overcrowding and rushing' often only leads to one thing as we know

Uk train drivers are trained and monitored not to use harsh braking especially on express services with catering and/or sleeper services - they get told off if they upset the pax -
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 13:00
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If i heard pax complain, I would tell them that is was a safe and successful landing.
Some airlines check the "G" loading on every landing and meet out fines if it was too high. This has caused several crashes. The last one I read about the passengers were cheering and clapping for the "Smooth" landing...and then the plane went off the end, crashed, burst into flames, and killed half the pax. But it was a "Greaser!"
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 14:41
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Personally I would never apologise. You very occasionally get the odd pax who will put a bogus claim in for compensation due to a 'hard landing'. It certainly would not help yourself legally if you went out afterwards admitting it was a hard landing. You might even go give an opportunist passenger the idea to make a complaint and claim by going out and apologising.

Easyflyer83 my partner who is crew also used to have the same bug bear as you until I pointed out its usually the only opportunity passengers have to thank the pilots due to the current climate of locked door policies. If I'm a passenger and receive a great service in flight from the cabin crew I will usually take the opportunity there and then to thank them and say bye to them disembarking and then thank the flight deck. Sometimes it can be the other way round where you land in challenging conditions and passengers will thank the cabin crew and ignore the pilots. Don't take it to heart!
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Old 22nd Jul 2018, 08:44
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NEVER apologise for ANYTHING in public transport ops.

Seriously, just don't do it.

It can be used as an admission of culpability by some bullshit compensation claim.
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Old 22nd Jul 2018, 11:41
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
I HAVE flown a lot recently with different airlines mostly legacy, and have noticed a sharp increase in very harsh braking on landing to make a quick turn off - pax and bags and everything else thrown forward and quite disconcerting for many pax -

Uk train drivers are trained and monitored not to use harsh braking especially on express services with catering and/or sleeper services - they get told off if they upset the pax -
In my aircraft (not an airline) pax are strapped in and their "bags" are in the baggage compartment. Everything elsE is stowed for T/O and Landing. I suspect that this is the case in airlines too and especially in legacy carriers. If not, than there is some blame on the CC or the pax justified, NOT the pilots.

Train drivers braking vs. pilot braking ? REALLY ? What about the emergency brake in trains, cushioned off as well ? As in "not to upset me" ?
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Old 22nd Jul 2018, 19:06
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Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
Wow! In your own words, an excellent flight with excellent service from the cabin crew, then the "pilots" - apparently both of them - ruined your day by maybe taking a last minute instruction from ATC to take the next exit and "expedite", and complying with that possible instruction, all for your safety? And you might have felt a small increased pressure from that lapstrap that you still had fastened. Maybe better not to fasten your belt next time, 'cos you'd never want any discomfort from that ruining your day in a serious emergency, would you?

You've come on here to gripe about some braking which undoubtedly was done for safety and not just for the fun of doing it to ruin your day. It doesn't take much to upset you! Truly awful. I hope you have recovered from what must have been a terrifying and shocking experience. The acceleration on take off can sometimes be a bit severe too, especially on those shorter runways, so maybe complain to the pilots (both of them, remember - jointly and severally guilty of such gross misconduct) about that as well. Everything just for your ultimate comfort, b0II0(&$ to everyone else's safety. Heaven forbid they ever dared an emergency descent after an explosive decompression. "Take it down real slow, we'd never want any complaints from binzer back there, would we". Let everyone pass out with hypoxia rather than upset old 'whinger binzer'!

Might I respectfully suggest only travelling by foot from now on, as cars, even trains sometimes have to brake more sharply than the driver might wish, purely for the safety of their passengers and themselves. Oh, what a rotten world, with cars and trains and planes with brakes, and the drivers / pilots sometimes having to use them.

Might you have over-indulged from the generosity of the cabin crew and this was the real cause of your belly-ache?

Just askin'!

Blimey Pilotmike you must of been on the same flight and spilt your coffee,, something rattle your cage. Like others have said it happens . I do have the pleasure of sitting in the front lhs and also being pax going into Geneva a lot and yes it does happen quite frequently especially on Swiss. And as everyone knows who use Geneva you have a lot of airlines in and out so I can compare Why does everyone oh no you, think it’s a safety issue all the time, coming on the easterly exits d and c are very close and b is only a bit further,,, It’s about time saving that’s all, By your thinking most of my flights into Geneva are all near missus and they’re only just making it safely. And you probably thought you were the only pilot on this forum. Come down from your ivory tower and mix with the rest of the world.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 01:17
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dr dre, I agree with you at post #7

A long time ago, as a new DC3 F/O, I made a safe but bone-jarring mess of what should have bee a reasonably straight forward landing. Captain instructed me "pithblot, you are going to have to apologise to our pax for that landing", which I rather sheepishly did, adding that "the Captain will demonstrate how to properly land a DC3 at the next port".

At the next port, we could hear the grass lapping the main wheels during the flare, but felt nothing of the touchdown. The pax were suitably impressed, but graciously saved all their sympathy for me!

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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 11:02
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Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post
In my aircraft (not an airline) pax are strapped in and their "bags" are in the baggage compartment. Everything elsE is stowed for T/O and Landing. I suspect that this is the case in airlines too and especially in legacy carriers. If not, than there is some blame on the CC or the pax justified, NOT the pilots.

Train drivers braking vs. pilot braking ? REALLY ? What about the emergency brake in trains, cushioned off as well ? As in "not to upset me" ?

I am puzzled by your reply - we are discussing here about 'normal' procedures -
train drivers do not use emergency braking except well erm in an emergency and they often have 2 or even 3 types of brake to use depending on the kit they are driving

Re flying I was merely pointing out in the increase of harsh barking used on landing seemingly to enable quick exits off runways - if you read my post correctly you will get my point

of course pax are strapped in but being chucked forward restrained by their belts decelerating from 150mph to 40mph in a couple of seconds is not nice for the pax just so matey has to clear the runway as someone is up his behind
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 09:53
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Anyone else apart from those at the sharp end, who think they can do better, would be welcome to try!
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