Time for an ICAO mandated English test?
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Time for an ICAO mandated English test?
Whether or not language comprehension problems had anything to do with last night's tragic events, does the panel believe steps should be taken to facilitate proper linguistic exchanges between ATC and aircrew?
Perhaps ICAO should mandate a standard English comprehension test for all air crew, maybe to include standard pronunciations.
The FAA's International Aviation Safety Assessment Program (IASA) could be used as a stick to ensure universal compliance.
My understanding is if country isn't rated as Class One, they are prohibited from US airspace.
Perhaps ICAO should mandate a standard English comprehension test for all air crew, maybe to include standard pronunciations.
The FAA's International Aviation Safety Assessment Program (IASA) could be used as a stick to ensure universal compliance.
My understanding is if country isn't rated as Class One, they are prohibited from US airspace.
Last edited by Gin Slinger; 2nd Jul 2002 at 20:51.
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Definately a good idea.
When I trained at Long Beach in 1996 there were a lot of Japanese/Chinese/Hong Kong students who's grasp of English was to say the least VERY poor.
After ?several complaints and ?'near misses' the local FSDO cracked down heavy on prospective students. I think it has to be demonstrated at the intial medical pre-solo.
From experience some foreign carriers who operate into LGW seem to have some real problems with standard radio calls.
...Have to say though it must be difficult to work in a foreign language. Many Brits, myself included speak only English and an amount of Double Dutch dependent on the amount of alchol consumed!
When I trained at Long Beach in 1996 there were a lot of Japanese/Chinese/Hong Kong students who's grasp of English was to say the least VERY poor.
After ?several complaints and ?'near misses' the local FSDO cracked down heavy on prospective students. I think it has to be demonstrated at the intial medical pre-solo.
From experience some foreign carriers who operate into LGW seem to have some real problems with standard radio calls.
...Have to say though it must be difficult to work in a foreign language. Many Brits, myself included speak only English and an amount of Double Dutch dependent on the amount of alchol consumed!
A few years ago Mrs Ghenghis and I had a Spanish (male, sadly) Au Pair, who held a Spanish CPL. He'd been told that he wasn't going to get any kind of flying job until his English was far better, so he elected to come over for 6 months. Pure luck he ended up with us, and interesting that we could talk aviation quite happily by the time he left, but we never did quite sort out the language for the kids food preferences.
But, I'm not at-all sure this is universal. Certainly the fact that France and Russia allow domestic traffic to talk the domestic language has been raised in a few BOI reports; I certainly find is annoying that in France one only understands part of what is on the same frequency.
I'd suggest that an ICAO English test should be an optional rating, then individual countries can decide whether to require it or not of overflying crews - which will have the same effect but save a few national egos.
G
N.B. Just for the record, from an experience of 1, CPLs make jolly good Au Pairs.
But, I'm not at-all sure this is universal. Certainly the fact that France and Russia allow domestic traffic to talk the domestic language has been raised in a few BOI reports; I certainly find is annoying that in France one only understands part of what is on the same frequency.
I'd suggest that an ICAO English test should be an optional rating, then individual countries can decide whether to require it or not of overflying crews - which will have the same effect but save a few national egos.
G
N.B. Just for the record, from an experience of 1, CPLs make jolly good Au Pairs.
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The French?
I've heard that French ATCOs are determined to speak French, to the exclusion of every other language. The way it was explained to me, they figure that they'll lose their national identity if they are compelled to speak English. It is also my understanding that Air France made a valiant attempt to get the ATCOs to change their ways, but it was an abject failure.
If all the above is really true, what we're really seeing is safety being jeopardised by arrogance. As ICAO has a heavy French representation in its halls of power, I don't see any change in the situation in the short, medium or long term.
Perhaps this might explain all the horror stories I've heard from ferry pilots flying into and out of Port Vila...
If all the above is really true, what we're really seeing is safety being jeopardised by arrogance. As ICAO has a heavy French representation in its halls of power, I don't see any change in the situation in the short, medium or long term.
Perhaps this might explain all the horror stories I've heard from ferry pilots flying into and out of Port Vila...
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Re: Time for an ICAO mandated English test?
GIN,
This isn't a bad idea, dealing with limited english speaking pilots is hazardous and dramatically adds to a controllers workload.
Mike
This isn't a bad idea, dealing with limited english speaking pilots is hazardous and dramatically adds to a controllers workload.
Mike
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The reason I posted this is that even though I am just a PPL holder, and I haven't flown in anywhere except the UK and US, I know I'd feel seriously disadvantaged if I couldn't understand every radio communication made in my locale, example, I'm on a long final, did he just tell that guy to return left base? Did he just tell the guy he's cleared to take off on the runway I'm crossing?
Potentially takes the non-fluent speakers out of the loop regarding situational awareness.
Surely if everyone is speaking a language I only had a shaky grasp of, I simply couldn't be safe.
Potentially takes the non-fluent speakers out of the loop regarding situational awareness.
Surely if everyone is speaking a language I only had a shaky grasp of, I simply couldn't be safe.
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English test? No, first install the English language worldwide as common ATC-language.
BTW it is not only the pilots who have difficulties speaking English; just a few weeks ago the tower controller on a large international airport in Spain had difficulties even understanding my readback or the simplest question over the frequency:
We: Tower, what is the reason for the delay?
Tower: Yes
We: Why do we wait?
Tower: Yes
etc.
Time to send some people to school, and to get things standardized.
P77
BTW it is not only the pilots who have difficulties speaking English; just a few weeks ago the tower controller on a large international airport in Spain had difficulties even understanding my readback or the simplest question over the frequency:
We: Tower, what is the reason for the delay?
Tower: Yes
We: Why do we wait?
Tower: Yes
etc.
Time to send some people to school, and to get things standardized.
P77
Last edited by Pegasus77; 4th Jul 2002 at 01:10.
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I understand that ICAO are already considering the introduction of a language proficiency standard into Annex 1, to take effect in 1/1/2008. They are also considering strenghtening the Annex 10 provision on the language from a recommended practice to standard. However, the requirement will still be the use of the language normally used by the ground, or English.
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P77 ... many years ago, I did some flying out of an airport in the USA, that shall remain nameless here. There was one particular ATCO in the tower who would say it as : "Ayyyyyyyyyy-firm"...
