What to do,if flying with an uncomfortable captain?
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What to do,if flying with an uncomfortable captain?
Hi there
I'm currently Junior FO on the 737 NG and there's particular captain i really hate flying with(not only me feels that about the same guy),he makes the atmosphere uncomfortable for me,cabin crew,dispatch,ground,keeps shouting at everyone,his lack of CRM is beyond my explanation and he always interferes with my controls on landing.I've asked the rostering guy to slot me with him on a scarce basis on only two sectors flying so that i get to spend minimum times with him,however it seems impossible as we're a small operations.Anybody can advice on how i can solve this issue? Thanks in advance
I'm currently Junior FO on the 737 NG and there's particular captain i really hate flying with(not only me feels that about the same guy),he makes the atmosphere uncomfortable for me,cabin crew,dispatch,ground,keeps shouting at everyone,his lack of CRM is beyond my explanation and he always interferes with my controls on landing.I've asked the rostering guy to slot me with him on a scarce basis on only two sectors flying so that i get to spend minimum times with him,however it seems impossible as we're a small operations.Anybody can advice on how i can solve this issue? Thanks in advance
Está servira para distraerle.
It baffles the imagination that young buckaroo first officers should be complaining because they fly with experienced captains who are not to their liking. You should be grateful to even get a leg let alone be allowed to try to land the aircraft. We never used to let the Italians land at London City! CRM is often used as an excuse by F/Os in order to hide their own mediocrity of talent.
You should treat this experience as a learning curve and approach each facet of the captain's character with an analytical mind so that you may best learn in the future how not to conduct yourself at the same time as deriving benefit from his ability to tolerate others of lesser experience in his cockpit.
You should treat this experience as a learning curve and approach each facet of the captain's character with an analytical mind so that you may best learn in the future how not to conduct yourself at the same time as deriving benefit from his ability to tolerate others of lesser experience in his cockpit.
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It's was attitudes like yours that we were warned about on an MCC course.
It's one thing taking over controls because the FO isn't the dogs
when he thinks it is. It's completely different when the whole crew dislike him. Think of the team work hindrances when everybody dislikes the captain.
It's one thing taking over controls because the FO isn't the dogs
when he thinks it is. It's completely different when the whole crew dislike him. Think of the team work hindrances when everybody dislikes the captain.
Está servira para distraerle.
And another thing, if the captain's uncomfortable, it's the job and duty of the rest of the crew to make him comfortable and that's because only he is the Commander!
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@cavortingcheetah it's got nothing to do with being less-skilled,it's been almost 2 years i've been checked out on the plane,this captain i'm complaining about just recently got his commands and we've flown couple of times and his attitudes worsen by the days,i heard dispatchers complaining,ground ops many in the chain as well as few colleagues of mine complaining about him.What i'm just asking is how i should handle this case that's all.Many thanks to other contributors
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Based on very little info about this specific situation, I'd say, "Good luck." I can only say do your best to get along with him- whatever it takes. Everybody has something that you can do to make them happy. If he is as bad as you say, he'll be dealt with in some way. It may take several years, or so. In the mean time, don't let him "ruin your day". Don't lose your job, or mess up your life, because of a temporary situation. I was flying F/O for a small company and they hired a DEC who not only did every dislike immensely, he was unsafe and incompetent. Stories about him were constanly going to the bosses. He was hired as a Capt, he was considered a Capt, he was treated as a Capt- all by the company. Not by any of the pilots- Capts or F/Os. Ground/dispatch personnel ridiculed him regularly. It took about 5 years for him to finally be moved out. And it was done in a way to make him look good. You don't think the company is actually going to admit they made a mistake, do you?
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does your company allow you to call in sick?
have you asked other copilots about this guy (unclear).
you could go to the chief pilot and ask him to investigate.
I imagine you aren't a union airline? Union airlines sometimes offer intervention.
The only way to deal with some pilots is to be so absolutely on top of things (american slang for being nothing short of excellent in your duties)....that he can't find fault with anything you do.
have you asked other copilots about this guy (unclear).
you could go to the chief pilot and ask him to investigate.
I imagine you aren't a union airline? Union airlines sometimes offer intervention.
The only way to deal with some pilots is to be so absolutely on top of things (american slang for being nothing short of excellent in your duties)....that he can't find fault with anything you do.
Está servira para distraerle.
Why don't you ask him what he thinks of you as a first officer and as someone with whom to share a cockpit? That might surprise you and could prompt a similar question to you from him your answer to which might give him something to think about. He might also, of course, just smack you on the back of the head and tell you to get on with it.
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this captain i'm complaining about just recently got his commands and we've flown couple of times and his attitudes worsen by the days
I have seen that before with new captains, ironically with some guys who complained a lot about their captains when they were F/Os...
I would try to talk to him and see how far you get. Never easy for an F/O.
Good luck !
I would try to talk to him and see how far you get. Never easy for an F/O.
Last edited by Centaurus; 24th Feb 2013 at 10:55.
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Been there....
This is always a difficult one. Its a long time since I sat on that side of the pointy end but I do remember that I had one particular Captain that I had difficulties with.
Can I offer this: You MUST take responsibilities for yourself, too. A little experience has taught me that the best time to breach the subject is after the day is done. Be direct and be succinct. Somewhere during the day, without him being around, make some notes and put them away some place.
Try and make it through the day and after the engines have been shut down and passengers are off the aircraft, turn to him and say: 'We've GOT to talk'..don't be afraid to 'lay it on the line'. Don't make any threats, but be diplomatic about things and try and get him to understand.
If that doesn't work and he goes ballistic...then, its time to get management involved. If that doesn't work....this will: Contact an inspector at your CAA and ask to talk to someone in the air safety department. Civil Aviation Authorities are under increased pressure to support air safety concerns, especially from ICAO and its oversite programs and the airline's IATA and its IOSA audit program.
I understand what you might be going through.
Can I offer this: You MUST take responsibilities for yourself, too. A little experience has taught me that the best time to breach the subject is after the day is done. Be direct and be succinct. Somewhere during the day, without him being around, make some notes and put them away some place.
Try and make it through the day and after the engines have been shut down and passengers are off the aircraft, turn to him and say: 'We've GOT to talk'..don't be afraid to 'lay it on the line'. Don't make any threats, but be diplomatic about things and try and get him to understand.
If that doesn't work and he goes ballistic...then, its time to get management involved. If that doesn't work....this will: Contact an inspector at your CAA and ask to talk to someone in the air safety department. Civil Aviation Authorities are under increased pressure to support air safety concerns, especially from ICAO and its oversite programs and the airline's IATA and its IOSA audit program.
I understand what you might be going through.
Until you have the courage to rip into him for his behaviour then you will continue to suffer. Just make sure your facts are right before you jump him. Preferably wait until you have landed then launch into the idiot
and then, once you're sure of your ground, I'd agree with what 80-87 said.
Last edited by wiggy; 24th Feb 2013 at 20:44.
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More on CRM
...and, dare I say it, be honest with yourself and make sure your own behaviour is beyond criticism before "launching into the idiot".
Been there, done that!
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There are two seats up front for a good reason and it is not a master/slave relationship. Some of the comments above hark back to the bad old days where two-crew aircraft were run as single pilot ops. Remember, plenty of meek, obedient FOs have sat there in silence and allowed the Captain to fly them into a smoking crater. You have a responsibility to speak up to ensure a safe and satisfactory working environment. You have a responsibility for your ass, your life and the safety of the operation.
Despite what some may think, just like Popes, captains are not infallible, and the spectrum spreads from likeable, competent operators, to guys who are a bit difficult to work alongside, to those who are a downright threat to the operation. In the latter case if you as FO do not challenge such threats you become culpable, practically and legally.
As FO you have a veto in that the flight isn't going without your cooperation. You better be damn sure before you use it or even threaten to use it, but it is there. Only once have I ever had cause to challenge the guy in the left-hand seat, and that was after he caused two separate reportable events, one with potential for injury or death, before we even started taxying. I was genuinely concerned about the prospect of getting airborne with this captain. The only negative feedback I got from management was that I should have stopped him sooner (although in reality that was not practical). If I had allowed this pilot to continue the flight the way he was going anything could have happened and I would have been blameworthy for facilitating it. In these cases the CVR is your friend. Make sure you are squeaky clean and that it's all on record.
Incidentally, although I am an FO in my current job I have been Captain on multicrew aircraft elsewhere. You are both there to look out for each other and that doesn't mean always saying yes to the other bloke.
Despite what some may think, just like Popes, captains are not infallible, and the spectrum spreads from likeable, competent operators, to guys who are a bit difficult to work alongside, to those who are a downright threat to the operation. In the latter case if you as FO do not challenge such threats you become culpable, practically and legally.
As FO you have a veto in that the flight isn't going without your cooperation. You better be damn sure before you use it or even threaten to use it, but it is there. Only once have I ever had cause to challenge the guy in the left-hand seat, and that was after he caused two separate reportable events, one with potential for injury or death, before we even started taxying. I was genuinely concerned about the prospect of getting airborne with this captain. The only negative feedback I got from management was that I should have stopped him sooner (although in reality that was not practical). If I had allowed this pilot to continue the flight the way he was going anything could have happened and I would have been blameworthy for facilitating it. In these cases the CVR is your friend. Make sure you are squeaky clean and that it's all on record.
Incidentally, although I am an FO in my current job I have been Captain on multicrew aircraft elsewhere. You are both there to look out for each other and that doesn't mean always saying yes to the other bloke.
Last edited by Torque Tonight; 26th Feb 2013 at 11:38.