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Old 27th Jan 2012, 08:00   #1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2000
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CRM up and down

I'm just curious as to what various organisations regard as appropriate in integrating CRM across the operation?

I know one organisation where everybody from the boss (who doesn't fly) to the admin girl does CRM training together, and people have joked (probably accurately) that if there was an office cat, it would have to do CRM as well.

I know another which regards it as absolutely only for flight crew, and everybody else is kept well away from it.

I've seen a couple of organisations where flight crew do CRM, ground crew do CRM, but they never train together.

I read a discussion in a CHIRP newsletter recently where some people suggested strongly that HR people should be trained in Human Factors (or in other words CRM) because they often get these things badly wrong and muck people around interfering with their ability to do a good safe job.

I know what I think - but I wonder what other people think - and equally importantly, what their organisations practice?

Genghis the Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jan 2012, 11:03   #2 (permalink)
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Well, many of the skills in CRM are equally applicable to all role (and other industries). Its actually something aviation is exporting to other industries (e.g. medicine).
Capt Pit Bull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jan 2012, 13:31   #3 (permalink)
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Captain Pit Bull. I wonder if you should change your user name to something less evocative of a dangerous animal known for attacking children. Even First Officer Pitbull is better than your current usage. It may even be that readers unconsciously resent your often excellent posts simply because of the faintly seemingly arrogant user-name. I know I do. Just a thought.
sheppey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jan 2012, 15:55   #4 (permalink)

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Your quite right Pit Bull - even the gambling industry. Look at
2 or 3 guys acting as a team to wash a roulette table and see
the principles of CRM in action without them even knowing it,
especially when they're on a losing streak.

PS - keep your name!
Slasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jan 2012, 17:25   #5 (permalink)
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I couldn't care less about Cap'n Put Bull's name, and I agree that CRM has many excellent points usefully exported to other communities.

But what really interests me is what profile of the organisation, different companies/operators include in their mandatory and periodic CRM training.

Genghis the Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jan 2012, 19:05   #6 (permalink)
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G, a problem with this subject, as with most other CRM issues, depends on what definition is used. I like the connotation with HF – CRM is the application of HF.

The originating question could allow drift to the social, team training aspects of CRM, - why don’t several different disciplines participate in joint training. This wasn’t the crux of the question, but if considered, the dominant issues are with the application of HF knowledge and likely differing context. Many of these are encountered by individuals before considering team/crew integration.

Should everyone have HF training; yes.
In addition to the specifics of HF in the working task, good HF knowledge is the basis of a better life. It enables ability to see and understand in more relevant ways, to be considerate and choose appropriate action. This benefits the individual and organization, safety and economics.

In many respects CRM is a ‘relatively’ small part of the requirement to have a SMS. SMS has been aimed at senior / middle management, but without the associated support of HF knowledge.
The industry has good guidance for SMS (ICAO Manual), but less so for CRM (ICAO HF Training Manual – who’s heard of it or even seen a copy).
The information which may be supplied (e.g.CAP737) outlines subject content and considers assessment, but falls short of the ‘how to’ aspects of practical application.

As for other industries, The Energy Institute appear to be taking a broad approach Hearts and Minds - Home, Oil and Gas, and also HSE, Human factors/ergonomics, health and safety in the workplace
Follow the side links and look at the resources.

The US DoE has a good reference – aspects of CRM and SMS combined:
`Human performance improvement handbook'; `volume 1: Concepts and Principles'.

`Volume 2: Human performance tools for individuals, work teams, and management'.
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