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Polish LOT 767 wheels up landing

Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:14
  #81 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 483
so they had to wait 5 hours standing in the corridor just in front of immigration because border guard won't let them in without papers - as one of them reported.
Complete rubbish.

They were waiting in the VIP lounge, with catering and psychological
assistance. They were waiting for their belongings, hand luggage,
also some of them had their passports in the hand luggage.

Also they were asked some questions by the investigation commission.

Yes, it was long, but in most cases, the psychologists insisted on
checking carefully on all of them, for post traumatic shock.
Ptkay is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:21
  #82 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I am pretty sure that congratulations to flightdeck and cabin for nice belly-landing and good evacuation are in order . Aeroplane is in one piece so there won't be long before preliminary tech details leak out. I'd guestimate it will be a day or two at least and week at most so some small amount of patience will be required.

this pilots will have a big sallary boost or an open door in every other airline- the copilot included :-)
Well, in the most of them. Not in Korean.

can a qualified B767 pilot explain how you can have all 3 gears locked up ?!?
It happens on about every flight but usually not on landing.
Clandestino is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:21
  #83 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by skit_uk View Post
Looks like no spoilers were deployed. I guess that would be to prevent too much weight at higher speeds?
Perhaps due to the hydraulic problems that have been mentioned.
JammedStab is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:21
  #84 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Thumbs up B767 Alt Gear deploy

This is a very curious incident,
AFAIK Alt. deploy just releases the uplocks (Elect) and allows gravity to allow the gear to deploy, and I believe the Airbus uses a similar type of system.
So even with NO Hydraulics, gear should still deploy. The use of Flaps and spoilers shown in the pictures would indicate that not All Hyd. went out, nor explain why uplocks would not release ...

Kudos to the Flight crew on averting a potential disaster!!!
Knoman is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:22
  #85 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
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PtKay: I dream to be wrong on that one, yet it's hard to distinguish what is PR and what is firsthand report. We'll definitely see testimonials in the press starting tomorrow morning.
mnez is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:26
  #86 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Starbear View Post
Found it, I had posted this some time ago in another thread. It is for B757 not 767.

737-200 has a procedure as well for Gear Lever Jammed in The UP Position. It involves turning off the controlling hydraulic system pumps and then cycling the Speedbrake Handle to reduce hydraulic pressure below 500 psi, pull the manual gear extension handles and then cycle the speedbrakes until 3 green which could take up to 4 minutes.
JammedStab is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:30
  #87 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Unfortunately, tomorrow we will see the typical jurno hunt for stories,
no matter, true or false, main thing, they sell...

We, Polish, are the specialists, also, in turning any of our glories
into a mud slinging battle against each other, and eventually into disaster.

Lets, for a moment, at least, celebrate the great outcome
of this potentially critical situation and the skills and perfection
of the cockpit and cabin crew.
Ptkay is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:52
  #88 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Lot 767

I wondered how long it would be before Danair came up.

According to my recollection the Stansted wheels up was an Ambassador
There was a Comet wheelsup at NCL off a training flt

Anyone remember more details

Having said that the Lot 767 looks like a very classy landing and I dont really care about the technicalities of whether all three bits of gear malfunctioned
salope is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:57
  #89 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2009
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It has been reported that the C hyd system failure happened about 30 min after departure. Having just had a look at my B763 QRH to referesh my memory. Is the C system loss is not a fairly significant failure to continue to WAW 8 some hours away?
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 20:57
  #90 (permalink)  
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Tiny bit of thread drift, but well, here we go. . . .

To echo what Clandestino has said, doors may well have closed, rather than opened for this crew.
If you check the requirements, for many many companies worldwide, the requirements are " NO ACCIDENT/INCIDENT " record, not, "no screw-ups & I heroically saved everyones @ss so this doesn't count record" , but "NO accident/incident".

Read about BA038 and you will see the significance of this on someones career prospects if he ventures forth subsequent to his "impeccable performance of duties" day.
Jobsworths who have no comprehension of the difference between saving the day for all concerned, vs fouling up royally, came perilously close to destroying the career/life of someone whose only fault was to be rostered as Capt for the wrong flight on the wrong day.
These LOT guys are similarly blighted in the blinkered eyes of the [email protected] who decide whether or not they are good employment prospects.
What Joe Public should be told at any subsequent press conference, is that these crew,simply because they were called upon to complete their jobs , in extremis, to the highest standards possible, have rendered themselves virtually unemployable , by the likes of Emirates/Korean & many others.
SCANDALOUS, & should be publicised as such by IFALPA whilst the iron is hot. If only a Union had the imagination & [email protected] to seize on the opportunity,to attempt to right this, Oh so obvious, wrong, but of course they have far more important issues to ignore than this.
OK, rant over, back to the subject.
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 21:07
  #91 (permalink)  
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747JJ, I do indeed know,really know, where you are coming from with this. 20yrs Capt on 767,no doubt very senior in the company, no doubt mindful of what LOT would like. . . . but, as a previous poster has posted, the same thing in the dark,in the US, would have been a whole lot more difficult for all concerned,it would have been a good idea anyhow to burn off/dump fuel, so time would have been needed before any attempted landing.

I will leave it to those familiar with the 767 to state whether the loss of that system alone would have given them any qualms before setting off over the pond. Outside my type-specific knowledge, so cannot really comment.
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 21:22
  #92 (permalink)  
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In my experience of aviation which is very long, I've always found that it pays to wait until the Court of Enquiry finishes its work before handing out the medals.
skol is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 21:37
  #93 (permalink)  
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I donīt get the hero point of this crew, you have a complete hidraulic failure 1 hour after T/O and you fly all the atlantic to Warsaw? Either someone got the wrong information or these guys are suicidal!!!
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 21:52
  #94 (permalink)  
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Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
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Reading the observations, questions and responses on this thread, I'm astonished at how few contributors to this site are "PROFESSIONAL PILOTS".
Cpt. Underpants is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 21:57
  #95 (permalink)  
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Ignition temperature for aluminum is 2000 degrees F, but less than 600 degrees F for epoxies used on 787, 580 degrees F to be precise, thus less than 1/3rd that of aluminum. Even with foaming which greatly helped in this LOT incident, epoxy based fires ignited on both composite nacelles which defines the low auto-igntion temperatures hazard. A lot of runways do not employ foam which only worsens the situation regarding skin friction heating and auto-ignition. This is why the FAA was urgently requested to perform a belly up skin friction heating test as part of a Special Condition, but they refused claiming "simulations were sufficient". In case of of 787 one can anticipate both nacelle and fuselage skin friction fires with consequent much more severe results re fire and resultant FST. They can't say they have not been warned.
. . . .well, that REALLY increases my comfort level when considering flying on the 787 . . . I realize that landings such as this are rare, but still . . .
crHedBngr is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 22:03
  #96 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
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Don't think it was mentioned anywhere COMPLETE hydraulic failure, merely 1 (of 3 ), systems. Oh, and I think it was 30min after dep, not 1hr.

As I have said ( & you should also respect, I would humbly suggest) without a detailed knowledge of the 767 systems , it would be foolish to publicly applaud/nor castigate the crew at this stage, other than saying, damned fine landing ! !
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 22:06
  #97 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
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I really can't believe the hype about a straight forward wheels up landing. There's nothing extraordinary about it. Any commercial pilot is capable of it. It's not that unusual an event. It might be text book and all that but come on folks let's not get too carried away now.
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 22:09
  #98 (permalink)  
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I donīt get the hero point of this crew, you have a complete hidraulic failure 1 hour after T/O and you fly all the atlantic to Warsaw? Either someone got the wrong information or these guys are suicidal!!!
They did not have a complete hydraulic failure. They lost one of THREE "separate and independent" hydraulic systems. Not a very big deal and certainly not suicidal. In the very unlikely event that another hyd system were to fail on the same flight a landing could have been made on the one remaining system. And consider this: it doesn't make any difference at all whether you try your luck at alternate gear extention (which is supposed to work anyway) in New York, or eight hours later in Warsaw.
In my opinion, a perfectly logical decision. You just can't beat Murphy if he decides to fail the alternate system as well. Looks to me the crew played the hand they were dealt perfectly.
MoodyBlue is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 22:12
  #99 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
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What would you do? The C system has already done its job and raised the gear and flap. Not long later it quits. It does very little in the cruise apart from power the centre autopilot. You run the QRH and it eventually tells you to turn the system pumps off and prepare for an ALTN flap and ALTN gear landing. It specifically does not tell you to land and the nearest suitable airport.

I'm interested in why you think it is "suicidal" to continue.
763 jock is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 22:21
  #100 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Sad how a "professional pilot" is so keen to castigate other "professional pilots", without A - knowing the facts & B- having any specific type knowledge.

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