Results of Air France Safety Inquiry?
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Results of Air France Safety Inquiry?
Moin,
does anyone have the text of the report available? The report was published Monday (24 Jan 2011) by an Independent Safety Review Team launched in the aftermath of the 2009 Airbus A330-200 crash in the Atlantic Ocean.
Up to now only articles about the report and its recommendations, but not the actual text.
Thanks for any information,
Chris
does anyone have the text of the report available? The report was published Monday (24 Jan 2011) by an Independent Safety Review Team launched in the aftermath of the 2009 Airbus A330-200 crash in the Atlantic Ocean.
Up to now only articles about the report and its recommendations, but not the actual text.
Thanks for any information,
Chris
I don't suppose Air France is too keen to let that info out in to the public domain, so don't expect anything soon CE-HAM!
Safety review makes 35 recommendations to Air France
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news – Jan 25th, 2011
An independent review of Air France's safety culture has provided the carrier
with a set of 35 recommendations, which the carrier is studying but has not
publicly disclosed.
The review was launched in the wake of the 2009 crash of an Air France
A330-200 into the South Atlantic. The aircraft has yet to be recovered.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news – Jan 25th, 2011
An independent review of Air France's safety culture has provided the carrier
with a set of 35 recommendations, which the carrier is studying but has not
publicly disclosed.
The review was launched in the wake of the 2009 crash of an Air France
A330-200 into the South Atlantic. The aircraft has yet to be recovered.
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SM
That’s patently not correct.
I don’t know the full backgrounds of all members of the team but I do happen to know one of them quite well.
Roger Whitefield's career to date includes:
BOAC/BA:
FL
the team patently had no real heavyweight experts in actual practical safety management, risk or cultural assesment.
I don’t know the full backgrounds of all members of the team but I do happen to know one of them quite well.
Roger Whitefield's career to date includes:
BOAC/BA:
Captain VC10
Training Captain Tristar and B747
Training Manager B747 fleet
Technical Manager
Chief Pilot
General Manager Flight Ops
Chief Air Safety Investigator
Head of Corporate Safety
After retiring from BA:Training Captain Tristar and B747
Training Manager B747 fleet
Technical Manager
Chief Pilot
General Manager Flight Ops
Chief Air Safety Investigator
Head of Corporate Safety
Safety Advisor to the Qantas Board. (Retired Dec 2010)
Non-Exec Member of the UK CAA Board, incl serving on the Safety Regulation Committee. (Current)
Chairman of Air Safety Support International since 2006. (Member from 2005) ASSI was set up by the UK Department for Transport to help provide a more cohesive system of civil aviation safety regulation in the UK Overseas Territories. (Current)
Sensibly, and IMHO to their credit, AF deliberately chose experts from other cultures in order "to combine French and Anglo-Saxon mindsets." Only one member of the team is French.Non-Exec Member of the UK CAA Board, incl serving on the Safety Regulation Committee. (Current)
Chairman of Air Safety Support International since 2006. (Member from 2005) ASSI was set up by the UK Department for Transport to help provide a more cohesive system of civil aviation safety regulation in the UK Overseas Territories. (Current)
FL
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In answer to the thread originator, I think it a fair bet that not many details of the Air France report will become public unless, for example, someone posts a copy on Wikileaks.
Further on, SM deprecates the investigative committee, because it apparently didn't contain anyone heshe thinks is appropriately qualified. And then SM deprecates the qualifications of FL's acquaintance.
There are a number of possible reasons for this, some of them intellectual.
Amongst the intellectual ones may be that the management of Air France may have had different goals in mind than SM. For example, since they operate a large Airbus fleet, they might have wanted to have on their advisory committee someone who performed the seminal research work on pilot interaction with Airbus cockpit interfaces. And they did!
Another may be that Air France and SM have different ideas of who is expert. Given that SM's judgement has justifiably been questioned on who is expert in safety cases, it is thinkable that hisher judgement may be questioned on who is expert on other aspects of safety in which Air France is concerned.
So maybe SM could propose to us a committee which heshe considers more suitable?
I think the committee is distinguished. I am much more willing to imagine that they got to the core of important safety-related phenomena at the airline than I am willing to imagine that they missed the boat.
PBL
Further on, SM deprecates the investigative committee, because it apparently didn't contain anyone heshe thinks is appropriately qualified. And then SM deprecates the qualifications of FL's acquaintance.
There are a number of possible reasons for this, some of them intellectual.
Amongst the intellectual ones may be that the management of Air France may have had different goals in mind than SM. For example, since they operate a large Airbus fleet, they might have wanted to have on their advisory committee someone who performed the seminal research work on pilot interaction with Airbus cockpit interfaces. And they did!
Another may be that Air France and SM have different ideas of who is expert. Given that SM's judgement has justifiably been questioned on who is expert in safety cases, it is thinkable that hisher judgement may be questioned on who is expert on other aspects of safety in which Air France is concerned.
So maybe SM could propose to us a committee which heshe considers more suitable?
I think the committee is distinguished. I am much more willing to imagine that they got to the core of important safety-related phenomena at the airline than I am willing to imagine that they missed the boat.
PBL
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SM
Qantas, the UK CAA and AF clearly don't share your view of his expertise, experience and suitability. They may, of course, all be wrong.
Having read your (usually extreme) views on a wide variety of topics in various PPRuNe forums, I can't help but admire your chutzpah in suggesting that someone else (PBL) might have a closed mind.
Qantas, the UK CAA and AF clearly don't share your view of his expertise, experience and suitability. They may, of course, all be wrong.
Having read your (usually extreme) views on a wide variety of topics in various PPRuNe forums, I can't help but admire your chutzpah in suggesting that someone else (PBL) might have a closed mind.
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Having read your (usually extreme) views on a wide variety of topics in various PPRuNe forums, I can't help but admire your chutzpah in suggesting that someone else (PBL) might have a closed mind.
A personal message to SM. Nobody here takes you seriously, not even the Mods. In fact you have a caricature dedicated to your good self elsewhere on the board.
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Abbey Road
Nice location you're in :-)
Composition of the review team aside, I thought I had read that AFR wanted to publish the whole report. And while I can understand that they retreat now that it is printed, I still remember other cases where good journalists got a copy of similar reprts and wrote a story about it. The raw data would be more interesting of course, but a good article including details is a start.
Well, I guess you're right. I'll have to wait.
Composition of the review team aside, I thought I had read that AFR wanted to publish the whole report. And while I can understand that they retreat now that it is printed, I still remember other cases where good journalists got a copy of similar reprts and wrote a story about it. The raw data would be more interesting of course, but a good article including details is a start.
Well, I guess you're right. I'll have to wait.
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I find that if you take any suggestion put up SM and do exactly the opposite you are well on the way down a fruitful path
I recently agreed with you on something. What does that say!
The Air France Review Team
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Members of the Independent Safety Review Team
Members of the Independent Safety Review Team:
Curt Graeber, PhD, chairs the Independent Safety Review Team. As a former Senior Technical Fellow and Chief Engineer at Boeing with responsibility for Human Factors who was also previously Chief of Flight Human Factors research for NASA, he was a member of the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger accident. He has also headed numerous international scientific initiatives devoted to flight safety and the development of international standards.
Erik Hollnagel, PhD, is a professor at Mines ParisTech (Ecole des Mines de Paris), where he occupies the Chair of Industrial Safety. He works as an expert on safety management, resilience engineering, and human factors in many countries, covering a broad range of activities in the aerospace, nuclear and medical fields.
John Marshall, served as a fighter pilot and senior officer with the US Air Force before joining Delta Air Lines as Vice President, Corporate Safety and Compliance. On the strength of his long experience of flight operations, aircraft maintenance, safety and airports he now serves as an independent aviation consultant.
Jean Pariès, is a Civil Aviation Engineer. A former member of the ICAO Human Factors and Flight Safety Study Group, he currently acts as a safety consultant in numerous fields, from nuclear to aviation, hospitals, and ground and maritime transport.
Nick Sabatini is a professional pilot and a former FAA administrative officer responsible for certification and oversight of United States airlines. A consultant in a wide range of mainly safety-related fields, he is a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society and a member of the Flight Safety Foundation Board of Governors.
Geoff Sartori, B767 flight captain, recently retired from business after acting as Head of Safety and Principal Safety Consultant for the Qantas group. His career at Qantas took him to several senior management positions in the airline’s Flight Operations division.
Roger Whitefield, flight captain, is a former chief pilot of the Concorde and B747 divisions and former Head of Safety and Quality at British Airways. He is currently an advisor to the Qantas Safety and Security Executive Committee and a non-executive Board member of the British Civil Aviation Authority.
David Woods, PhD, is a professor at Ohio State University (Columbus) with 30 years’ experience in research into decision-making, human factors and resilience in high-risk industries such as healthcare, nuclear, and aviation. He was an advisor in the investigation into the accident to Space Shuttle Columbia.
Briefing on this video:
Air France - Corporate : Independent Safety Review
Curt Graeber, PhD, chairs the Independent Safety Review Team. As a former Senior Technical Fellow and Chief Engineer at Boeing with responsibility for Human Factors who was also previously Chief of Flight Human Factors research for NASA, he was a member of the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger accident. He has also headed numerous international scientific initiatives devoted to flight safety and the development of international standards.
Erik Hollnagel, PhD, is a professor at Mines ParisTech (Ecole des Mines de Paris), where he occupies the Chair of Industrial Safety. He works as an expert on safety management, resilience engineering, and human factors in many countries, covering a broad range of activities in the aerospace, nuclear and medical fields.
John Marshall, served as a fighter pilot and senior officer with the US Air Force before joining Delta Air Lines as Vice President, Corporate Safety and Compliance. On the strength of his long experience of flight operations, aircraft maintenance, safety and airports he now serves as an independent aviation consultant.
Jean Pariès, is a Civil Aviation Engineer. A former member of the ICAO Human Factors and Flight Safety Study Group, he currently acts as a safety consultant in numerous fields, from nuclear to aviation, hospitals, and ground and maritime transport.
Nick Sabatini is a professional pilot and a former FAA administrative officer responsible for certification and oversight of United States airlines. A consultant in a wide range of mainly safety-related fields, he is a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society and a member of the Flight Safety Foundation Board of Governors.
Geoff Sartori, B767 flight captain, recently retired from business after acting as Head of Safety and Principal Safety Consultant for the Qantas group. His career at Qantas took him to several senior management positions in the airline’s Flight Operations division.
Roger Whitefield, flight captain, is a former chief pilot of the Concorde and B747 divisions and former Head of Safety and Quality at British Airways. He is currently an advisor to the Qantas Safety and Security Executive Committee and a non-executive Board member of the British Civil Aviation Authority.
David Woods, PhD, is a professor at Ohio State University (Columbus) with 30 years’ experience in research into decision-making, human factors and resilience in high-risk industries such as healthcare, nuclear, and aviation. He was an advisor in the investigation into the accident to Space Shuttle Columbia.
Briefing on this video:
Air France - Corporate : Independent Safety Review
SM
'it probably means the team was hampered rather than enhanced! '
'I'm sure most of this review was done in a board room looking at PowerPoint charts'
Thank you very much for providing conclusive evidence that you don't actually know. I'm sure many of us will find that the most valuable contribution you've made since joining this board.
'it probably means the team was hampered rather than enhanced! '
'I'm sure most of this review was done in a board room looking at PowerPoint charts'
Thank you very much for providing conclusive evidence that you don't actually know. I'm sure many of us will find that the most valuable contribution you've made since joining this board.
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That wouldn't be the same Roger O Whitefield who is listed as a Freeman of the Guild of Pilots and Air Navigators.......
He has enormous experience in aviation (see post #4 of this thread) and is someone whose ability I respect.