Numbskull Notams
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: L.A.
Age: 56
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Numbskull Notams
.
Here is another gripe.
several decades ago, as a PPL, I suggested to both the NATS and the CAA that the Notams they issued were useless - unusable. Why? Because the wad of Notams (50 pages) we had would actually take 4 hours to decipher, so everyone ignored them.
The main gripe was that there was no map, detailing where each Notam was, so you could skip to the ones that were off your route. The second gripe was that new danger areas and purple routes comprised a huge list of coordinates, which would take another 4 hours to decipher. Why no simple map, with the areas deliniated? Why allow hundreds of individual pilots to plot incorrect points, instead of presenting a simple map?
Moving on several decades, as a commander of a shiny (if rather old) jet, I still have the same problem. Only the other week, I was presented with 50 pages of Notams. XXX airport had 3 pages alone, and after noting cranes, fireworks, birds and several new telephone numbers - there, right at the bottom, we find that the ILS is u/s. What the !@!*!*! Then, there was a NATO execise or similar, with 22 coordinates, plus some ash clouds with another 38 coordinates. Luckily with the latter, opps had pulled a map off the web somewhere.
Why are NATS so behind the drag curve? Why are they not able to implement a good suggestion, after 3 decades?
.
Here is another gripe.
several decades ago, as a PPL, I suggested to both the NATS and the CAA that the Notams they issued were useless - unusable. Why? Because the wad of Notams (50 pages) we had would actually take 4 hours to decipher, so everyone ignored them.
The main gripe was that there was no map, detailing where each Notam was, so you could skip to the ones that were off your route. The second gripe was that new danger areas and purple routes comprised a huge list of coordinates, which would take another 4 hours to decipher. Why no simple map, with the areas deliniated? Why allow hundreds of individual pilots to plot incorrect points, instead of presenting a simple map?
Moving on several decades, as a commander of a shiny (if rather old) jet, I still have the same problem. Only the other week, I was presented with 50 pages of Notams. XXX airport had 3 pages alone, and after noting cranes, fireworks, birds and several new telephone numbers - there, right at the bottom, we find that the ILS is u/s. What the !@!*!*! Then, there was a NATO execise or similar, with 22 coordinates, plus some ash clouds with another 38 coordinates. Luckily with the latter, opps had pulled a map off the web somewhere.
Why are NATS so behind the drag curve? Why are they not able to implement a good suggestion, after 3 decades?
.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: On the move
Posts: 940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree flying a private biz jet I am the ops , catering , cleaning, pilot and anything else thats required . NOtams are the dentist of my day . What I try and do is get a narrow route briefing that still generates many pages but not as many a normal NOTAM print
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: L.A.
Age: 56
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Darn:
Have you looked at NotamPlot - it plots all the latest notams on a map just like you suggest and is excellent (may only work in the UK though?).
Have you looked at NotamPlot - it plots all the latest notams on a map just like you suggest and is excellent (may only work in the UK though?).
Actually, no I have not. But I have to say:
Why does it take a private individual to do what NATS should have been doing decades ago?
Why do none of the European handling agents we use have such a system? It does not sound like it will break the bank.
Why is such an obvious solution to the NOTAMS fiasco swathed in darkness and obscurity? Why does NATS not promote it? Embarrassed by their own inaction and inadequacy, perhaps?
If you have not seen it yourselves, here is NotamPlot. Downloadable free to private pilots - very generous of the designer:
NotamPlot.
.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: L.A.
Age: 56
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Merlin:
Do you not have a Flt Ops/Dispatch operation or a Flt Svcs supplier
Do you not have a Flt Ops/Dispatch operation or a Flt Svcs supplier
And still the u/s ILS is the last item for each airport. Are we supposed to read them backwards?
.
silverstrata, I think that you have a valid point about communications – a safety / HF issue which should be presented to the authorities.
I suggest that you send a copy of your post to CHIRP, and another to ASRS who should contact the relevant authorities.
CHIRP
ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System
I suggest that you send a copy of your post to CHIRP, and another to ASRS who should contact the relevant authorities.
CHIRP
ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: It wasn't me, I wasn't there, wrong country ;-)
Age: 79
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
silverstrata
Tis the point of having a provider of a service, that they filter and prioritise all notams etc for your planned route, POD, POD Alts, Enroute, enroute alts, POA & alts etc., and dump the rest. If they don't
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: L.A.
Age: 56
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
merlin:
Tis the point of having a provider of a service, that they filter and prioritise all notams etc for your planned route, POD, POD Alts, Enroute, enroute alts, POA & alts etc., and dump the rest. If they don't
Tis the point of having a provider of a service, that they filter and prioritise all notams etc for your planned route, POD, POD Alts, Enroute, enroute alts, POA & alts etc., and dump the rest. If they don't
But the individual airfield Notams will still have the really important entry right at the bottom somewhere - after all the telephone number changes and firework displays.
And it is still typed out using the WWII Enigma cypher machine, just to make sure you cannot read it. I have seen some of our Eastern European colleagues look at these hieroglyphics and just shrug their shoulders. They should get the ghost of Alan Turing to decipher it all for us.
User friendly, they are not.
.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: L.A.
Age: 56
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Safety:
I suggest that you send a copy of your post to CHIRP, and another to ASRS who should contact the relevant authorities
I suggest that you send a copy of your post to CHIRP, and another to ASRS who should contact the relevant authorities
.
Last edited by silverstrata; 10th Jun 2010 at 08:42.
… they obviously failed with this one …, resilience, resolve; try again !
Safety issues are much more likely to gain attention in the current ‘legal’ culture; and people and organisations do not like – “I told you so”.
Safety issues are much more likely to gain attention in the current ‘legal’ culture; and people and organisations do not like – “I told you so”.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: L.A.
Age: 56
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RTO:
Unfortunately its hard to blame an accident on missing a notam.
Unfortunately its hard to blame an accident on missing a notam.
It is like the previous government's 3,000 new laws. There is no Mastermind winner in the country that can honestly know of all these laws, but still they say that not knowing the law is not an excuse in law.
The lunatics have been running the asylum for long enough...
.
