Polish Presidential Flight Crash Thread
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Brookmans Park
"Large jets do not "fly above the runway and make a last minute decision"
True, but that's what the PIC of JAK did. He received GA from ATC the moment he saw the approach lights and he just landed. He was even praised by ATC commander. What I am just saying is that PIC of TU could be tempted to "just level at 100m" and the chart of N1 could be a proof of that... and if he did not relay on the radio altitude, he would be fine ...
"Large jets do not "fly above the runway and make a last minute decision"
True, but that's what the PIC of JAK did. He received GA from ATC the moment he saw the approach lights and he just landed. He was even praised by ATC commander. What I am just saying is that PIC of TU could be tempted to "just level at 100m" and the chart of N1 could be a proof of that... and if he did not relay on the radio altitude, he would be fine ...
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I guess they set the ascend/descend rate to 0m/s in the autopilot
Why do you think that it "not cleared"?
First question that comes to my mind and that wasn't answered (or even asked) in the report is if 101 crew had a similar procedure requiring them to use RA instead of the barometric altimeter, just like Yak's crew had?
Arrakis
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The next question is what did Protasiuk read when he was the FO on the 7 April flight? The PIC of that flight may answer that (may already has). Or was it the FE's duty, and if so, what did he read?
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criss
Jak 40 is a jet. Three engine jet. Up to 32 passengers. And they could try this dangerous and weird maneuver because it is STOL.
I'm not a pilot and I was very reluctant to write here but when I read such an "info" I could not bear it...
Jak 40 is a jet. Three engine jet. Up to 32 passengers. And they could try this dangerous and weird maneuver because it is STOL.
I'm not a pilot and I was very reluctant to write here but when I read such an "info" I could not bear it...
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According to latest news, Miller's comitee will publish ATC tapes in about 30 mins.
Stay tuned!
BTW. Please remeber that Jak40 crew landed in better conditions! Also breaking minimas!
Stay tuned!
BTW. Please remeber that Jak40 crew landed in better conditions! Also breaking minimas!
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ARRAKIS, it is quite clear from MAK report and it's what makes Poles politician mad 
There was NO procedure at all and crew MUST have fly by TU's FCOM (РЛЭ) (Page 21-22).
PS the question is if they know that.
What I'm wondering still is:
if 101 crew had a similar procedure requiring them to use RA instead of the barometric altimeter
PS the question is if they know that.
What I'm wondering still is:
if this crew flew this (or other 154) plane in this same team before?
Last edited by Kulverstukas; 18th Jan 2011 at 12:39.
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Seen a video where Protasiuk was the PIC, and read that Blasik commended the crew. Were the FO and FE the same?
Edit to say: Yes, the FO was the same. And the navigator, was in Haiti, too.
Edit to say: Yes, the FO was the same. And the navigator, was in Haiti, too.
Last edited by RegDep; 18th Jan 2011 at 13:35. Reason: Looked at data
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ATC tapes on air now. Want to see them without polish comments. 
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ATC tapes will not be available in internet after press conf !
They revealed that ATC didn't reacted properly when Tu was below (100m) and 100-80 m on left from the final.
Polish commission is not questioning MAK statements, but they just revealed how it was from ATC ´side´.
They revealed that ATC didn't reacted properly when Tu was below (100m) and 100-80 m on left from the final.
Polish commission is not questioning MAK statements, but they just revealed how it was from ATC ´side´.
Last edited by mirogster; 18th Jan 2011 at 13:58.
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criss
Jak 40 is a jet. Three engine jet. Up to 32 passengers. And they could try this dangerous and weird maneuver because it is STOL.
I'm not a pilot and I was very reluctant to write here but when I read such an "info" I could not bear it...
Jak 40 is a jet. Three engine jet. Up to 32 passengers. And they could try this dangerous and weird maneuver because it is STOL.
I'm not a pilot and I was very reluctant to write here but when I read such an "info" I could not bear it...
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18/01/11 RIAN Moscow - IAC decided to publish full transcript of ATC tapes, Alexei Morozov, the head of the technical commission of Russia's Interstate Aviation Committee.
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Case now closed. Unfortunately politicians histerically took over, experts (real ones) not listened to. Someone said here that "maybe they'll learn this time". I don't think so.
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Well, it's not as bad as I was afraid it would be. Now they actually announced that PIC was formally stripped of command by (allegedly drunk) Blasik:
Link
So, they are no longer trying to throw the crew and ATC under the bus. Thank GOD!!!! It could poison the relations between Poles and Russians forever.
Too bad we don't have a recording of what was being said between Kaczynski and his protégé Blasik. And with this official revelation and announcement, anything Kaczynski says is now just noise by a lunatic.
Blasik and Kaczynski connection is critical because the experts have blamed previous screw-ups on Blasik's incompetence but by intervention of Kaczynski he kept his position of the Air Force Chief. One way or another – the blame falls 100% on Kaczynski.
Therefore, no matter what other screwups with the buttons and such they made, problem was the drunk political puppet took over command and would not order goaround in time in spite of, what is also now being revealed, the crew querying him by saying they could not see ANYTHING. By the time Protasiuk dared to reclaim the command was way too late.
CASE CLOSED!!!!
But Mr. Andrzej Seremet, the Attorney General confirmed the news about the blood alcohol of Gen. Błasik. It is so important because General Błasik was not an ordinary passenger, but the actual commander of the Tu-154. He took over the command and documented that fact by reporting to President Kaczynski the crew as ready for the job/departure at the airport in Warsaw. In this unprecedented way he stripped the powers away from the commander of the machine and at the decisive phase of the flight he sat in the cockpit. Gen. Błasik probably wanted to be, in the eyes of the president Lech Kaczynski, the one who will take him to Katyn regardless of bad weather.
So, they are no longer trying to throw the crew and ATC under the bus. Thank GOD!!!! It could poison the relations between Poles and Russians forever.
Too bad we don't have a recording of what was being said between Kaczynski and his protégé Blasik. And with this official revelation and announcement, anything Kaczynski says is now just noise by a lunatic.
Blasik and Kaczynski connection is critical because the experts have blamed previous screw-ups on Blasik's incompetence but by intervention of Kaczynski he kept his position of the Air Force Chief. One way or another – the blame falls 100% on Kaczynski.
Therefore, no matter what other screwups with the buttons and such they made, problem was the drunk political puppet took over command and would not order goaround in time in spite of, what is also now being revealed, the crew querying him by saying they could not see ANYTHING. By the time Protasiuk dared to reclaim the command was way too late.
CASE CLOSED!!!!
Last edited by SadPole; 18th Jan 2011 at 18:47.
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SadPole,
I am also a Pole, probably even more sad than you are...
Embarrassed, ashamed, humiliated...
For me also: CASE CLOSED.
How far are we from the fame of the Polish pilots of the Battle of Britain.
Unfortunately sometimes the virtues of the wartime
are the biggest sins in the peacetime.
I am also a Pole, probably even more sad than you are...
Embarrassed, ashamed, humiliated...
For me also: CASE CLOSED.
How far are we from the fame of the Polish pilots of the Battle of Britain.
Unfortunately sometimes the virtues of the wartime
are the biggest sins in the peacetime.
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Last edited by Kulverstukas; 18th Jan 2011 at 19:12.