What makes a good (and bad) FO ?
Thread Starter
What makes a good (and bad) FO ?
I am trying my best to be a good FO.
What qualities make a good FO ?
Also what makes a bad FO (so I know what not to do) ?
Thanks.
Yes, I know about :
1 - Good landing captain (always)
2- I'll take the chicken
3 - I'll take the fat/ugly one
Anything else ?
What qualities make a good FO ?
Also what makes a bad FO (so I know what not to do) ?
Thanks.
Yes, I know about :
1 - Good landing captain (always)
2- I'll take the chicken
3 - I'll take the fat/ugly one
Anything else ?
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Hey John,
in another thread VONKLUFFEN gave an excellent post - for me a MUST read especially for young FOs.
Here is the link (first page, post #8)
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ml#post5428022
Cheers Flexi
in another thread VONKLUFFEN gave an excellent post - for me a MUST read especially for young FOs.
Here is the link (first page, post #8)
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ml#post5428022
Cheers Flexi
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1) FO in the seat 10-15 minutes befor the Capt; Capt arrives, "Sir, our clearance is SID... and I've set :::in you HSI."
2) Things are a little hectice, Capt very busy, "How can I help?"
Bob.
2) Things are a little hectice, Capt very busy, "How can I help?"
Bob.
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Not agree
I am not sure "everything ready" FO work is a best one. I think the most important for any pilot in any position is TO BE AWARE AND KEEP THE OTHER ONE BE AWARE. Even in case you loose your awareness, it is safer to tell it to the cpt than pretending everything is all right.
Captains instruments setting beffore the flight IS DEFINITELY NOT the FO´s responsability, sorry guys, but who says this should have a look into any FOM. How can one be aware when the setting was done by someone else (not to mention someone less experienced..).
Or imagine low hour FO making mistake in the preflight performancecomputation. CPT only comming to the seat and not even interrested in the V speeds, just copying them to the FMC (which I have experienced by myself!) is the safety risk. Such a crew then represents "two single pilot operations", but this is deffinitely not what the airline pilots are drilled for.
You may not agree, but this is my experience.
Captains instruments setting beffore the flight IS DEFINITELY NOT the FO´s responsability, sorry guys, but who says this should have a look into any FOM. How can one be aware when the setting was done by someone else (not to mention someone less experienced..).
Or imagine low hour FO making mistake in the preflight performancecomputation. CPT only comming to the seat and not even interrested in the V speeds, just copying them to the FMC (which I have experienced by myself!) is the safety risk. Such a crew then represents "two single pilot operations", but this is deffinitely not what the airline pilots are drilled for.
You may not agree, but this is my experience.
A good F/O goes about his job quietly and efficiently and observes carefully. Before "suggesting" courses of action to the captain, he listens to his own conscience and then decides if his "suggestion" is based upon personal opinion and ego. Most times it is because he thinks the captain will appreciate his fast mind. In real life, "suggestions" which are actually prompts, are irritating and often counter-productive. Avoid getting a reputation of being a "fly by mouth" individual.
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If the FO is there before me he can set my instruments anytime he wants- it's not expected, but he can do it. Apparently you think I'd blindly accept it, which is not the case. V speeds? If you have experience flying the plane, you should pretty well know if the Vspeeds you been given are close enough to being accurate. Same with with most the other stuff- like fuel loads.
Bob.
Bob.
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Assuming you are at an airline, no need to stroke the captain, follow your SOP's and do the job you were trained, don't assume that the captain has looked at everything properly, you need to check NOTAMs, WX and also the tech log, even though you may be familiar with the a/c defect, always recheck MEL procedures. Read the checklist, don't memorize it.
We all make mistakes, you are the second set of eyes. Brief EVERYTHING that you are going to do that is not SOP.
We all make mistakes, you are the second set of eyes. Brief EVERYTHING that you are going to do that is not SOP.
Keep your hands and feet off the controls when you are not flying the aircraft!
i.e. - you don't "backup" the Captain on the rudder pedal/brakes for take-off or approach to stand. (Unless it's in your Operations Manual, of course.)
i.e. - you don't "backup" the Captain on the rudder pedal/brakes for take-off or approach to stand. (Unless it's in your Operations Manual, of course.)
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Keep your hands and feet off the controls when you are not flying the aircraft!
Our cadets are trained to back up during the Landing and Takeoff phase, but why in the world do they have their feet on the rudders any other time, that's what the footrest is for!
If you like this thread ....
.... . I believe that you might really quite enjoy reading the thread Centaurus has started on D&G Reporting Points entitled http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...-man-apia.html 
Jack
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Don't decide to prematurely start using your pedals bringing the aeroplane to a halt on the runway as the Captain is steering and lining up, until he says "you have control...." I have had countless smooth line ups ruined by feet-happy FOs "itching" to have control for their take off. Calm down!
Also, don't be so rude as to grab the paperwork from the dispatcher and start barking orders at him when your Captain is sitting three feet away
Don't start shuffling uncomfortably in your seat, nervously pointing and then predictably exclaiming "ALTIMETER CHECK!" five feet after we have passed the level when it wasn't your challenge to make in the first place. Relax, give the Captain a chance, then intervene a few hundred feet later if he's completely forgotten. It's not a bl**dy race for something so non-urgent so don't point score.
Don't wear your stripes in the breakfast hall at the night stop hotel. Don't mention to other passengers you're a pilot when on dead heading flights. It's boring.
You must be a good guy to fly with anyway if you've got the guts to ask the question in the first place, so that's why I've only mentioned some of the "don'ts" !!
......and GET YOUR BL**DY HAND AWAY FROM THE BACK OF THE THRUST LEVERS DURING MY TAKE-OFF!!!! When I want your help fine tuning the thrust setting I will ask for it!
Bah!
Also, don't be so rude as to grab the paperwork from the dispatcher and start barking orders at him when your Captain is sitting three feet away
Don't start shuffling uncomfortably in your seat, nervously pointing and then predictably exclaiming "ALTIMETER CHECK!" five feet after we have passed the level when it wasn't your challenge to make in the first place. Relax, give the Captain a chance, then intervene a few hundred feet later if he's completely forgotten. It's not a bl**dy race for something so non-urgent so don't point score.
Don't wear your stripes in the breakfast hall at the night stop hotel. Don't mention to other passengers you're a pilot when on dead heading flights. It's boring.
You must be a good guy to fly with anyway if you've got the guts to ask the question in the first place, so that's why I've only mentioned some of the "don'ts" !!
......and GET YOUR BL**DY HAND AWAY FROM THE BACK OF THE THRUST LEVERS DURING MY TAKE-OFF!!!! When I want your help fine tuning the thrust setting I will ask for it!
Bah!
Last edited by Kiltie; 23rd Feb 2010 at 15:53.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Don't be afraid to (tactfully) query a captain's decision if you think he may be wrong. The captain has all sorts of pressures on him to keep schedule, accept defects etc; you are the failsafe. I've made the wrong decision before and been corrected ( and appreciated it).
It all depends on culture, age, training and experience as to what a Captain will expect of an FO. And this is really what you are asking - what is expected of you. The question is so airline and region specific, I don't think you will get a good generic answer on this forum. What you will get is opinions (can't wait for 411A's inevitable input) and you can pick out of them what you will. So here's mine:
I fly in a company with lots of expat pilots with lots of nationalities and many who don't speak English as a first language. Therefore, my company requires and expects strict observance of SOPs to avoid possible confusion. You as an FO should be hot on the SOPs, perhaps better than the Captain.
I fly with FOs who range in experience from being older than me and with more hours to 250 hour cadets. I expect similar standards of operating throughout the range but obviously I have to make allowances for the newer guys. But my company treats the pilots the same regardless of seat. If you as the FO is PF , you do everything the commander would (with the exception of having your hand on the Thrust Levers on the take off roll and making any reject decision, and Low Weather Minimum Operations which are both seat specific). Therefore, the FO should try to become as knowledgeable as possible and be confident. But you will find in most cases, knowledge leads to confidence.
If you analyse the above, you will see that what I'm talking more about how a Captain relates to his colleauge on the flight deck rather than what the FO percieves as what he's doing in relation to being a 'good FO". Flight Deck CRM is a two (three with a FE) way thing and no crew member should have to adapt their techniques to suit another in any major way. Unfortunately, it's often the FO who is more SOP compliant and has to adapt to the guy in the other seat which shouldn't happen, but is frequently the case.
So, know your SOPs, know the aeroplane but be prepared to be flexible.
Oh, and don't scew up!
I fly in a company with lots of expat pilots with lots of nationalities and many who don't speak English as a first language. Therefore, my company requires and expects strict observance of SOPs to avoid possible confusion. You as an FO should be hot on the SOPs, perhaps better than the Captain.
I fly with FOs who range in experience from being older than me and with more hours to 250 hour cadets. I expect similar standards of operating throughout the range but obviously I have to make allowances for the newer guys. But my company treats the pilots the same regardless of seat. If you as the FO is PF , you do everything the commander would (with the exception of having your hand on the Thrust Levers on the take off roll and making any reject decision, and Low Weather Minimum Operations which are both seat specific). Therefore, the FO should try to become as knowledgeable as possible and be confident. But you will find in most cases, knowledge leads to confidence.
If you analyse the above, you will see that what I'm talking more about how a Captain relates to his colleauge on the flight deck rather than what the FO percieves as what he's doing in relation to being a 'good FO". Flight Deck CRM is a two (three with a FE) way thing and no crew member should have to adapt their techniques to suit another in any major way. Unfortunately, it's often the FO who is more SOP compliant and has to adapt to the guy in the other seat which shouldn't happen, but is frequently the case.
So, know your SOPs, know the aeroplane but be prepared to be flexible.
Oh, and don't scew up!
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I am a copilot, I sit on the right
I'm quick and courageous; I'm wonderfully bright
My job is remembering what the captain forgets
And I never talk back, so I have no regrets.
chorus: I'm a lousy copilot and a long way from home.
I make out the flight plan and study the weather,
Pull up the gear, drop it, and stand by to feather
I make out his mail forms, I hire his whores,
And I fly his old crate to the tune of his snores.
I make out the flight plan according to Hoyle
I take all the readings, I check on the oil,
I hustle him out for the midnight alarm
I fly through the fog while he sleeps on my arm.
I treat him to coffee, I keep him in cokes
I laugh at his corn and his horrible jokes
And once in a while, when his landings are rusty,
I come through with, "Yessiree captain,it's gusty!"
All in all, I'm commissioned a general stooge
I sit on the right of this high-flying Scrooge
Some day I'll make captain, and then I'll be blest,
I'll give my poor tongue one long hell of a rest.
From The Wild Blue Yonder, Oscar Brand
(A much treasured old and battle-scarred LP now transferred to CD)
I'm quick and courageous; I'm wonderfully bright
My job is remembering what the captain forgets
And I never talk back, so I have no regrets.
chorus: I'm a lousy copilot and a long way from home.
I make out the flight plan and study the weather,
Pull up the gear, drop it, and stand by to feather
I make out his mail forms, I hire his whores,
And I fly his old crate to the tune of his snores.
I make out the flight plan according to Hoyle
I take all the readings, I check on the oil,
I hustle him out for the midnight alarm
I fly through the fog while he sleeps on my arm.
I treat him to coffee, I keep him in cokes
I laugh at his corn and his horrible jokes
And once in a while, when his landings are rusty,
I come through with, "Yessiree captain,it's gusty!"
All in all, I'm commissioned a general stooge
I sit on the right of this high-flying Scrooge
Some day I'll make captain, and then I'll be blest,
I'll give my poor tongue one long hell of a rest.
From The Wild Blue Yonder, Oscar Brand
(A much treasured old and battle-scarred LP now transferred to CD)