Pre-Departure Flight Deck Chaos
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Pre-Departure Flight Deck Chaos
A discussion topic / question for pilots, technicians and other airline staff...
Getting to the aircraft, we often find technical personnel in the flight-deck, frantically working on the aircraft to facilitate dispatch. This kind of work (increasingly in modern aircraft) sees them re-setting computers, selecting switches, and dashing in and out of the E&E-bay.
Fair enough so-far... The guys are doing exactly what they're paid to do.
What I'm concerned about is that we so often end up trying to set the aircraft up while these guys are still working. I feel that we should stay out the way until they're done... and then go in to the flight-deck, and get things sorted out. As for the delay... put it down to "Aircraft Snag"... Not necessarily "Technical" (as in... who is to blame for the delay). My point here is that we should take the schedule seriously, but not as seriously as safety.
If however, we're already up front, and a techie comes into the FD, I feel that he should't just start doing his work (chatting on a blaring two-way radio, moving switches, calling for, or just leaning over and selecting ECAM / EICAS pages, etc) without due concern for what is taking place in the two front seats (briefings, checklists, radio, nav' way-point insertions, etc). This of course, all happens while trim-clerks, ramp agents, and cabin-crew are also moving in and out of the FD to get things done.
Is this a common problem, or is the culture unique to our airline?
My big issue is that this is a huge distraction, and in an information rich environment, things can easily get buggered-up.
Just interested...
Cheers,
Pitch&Fan
Getting to the aircraft, we often find technical personnel in the flight-deck, frantically working on the aircraft to facilitate dispatch. This kind of work (increasingly in modern aircraft) sees them re-setting computers, selecting switches, and dashing in and out of the E&E-bay.
Fair enough so-far... The guys are doing exactly what they're paid to do.
What I'm concerned about is that we so often end up trying to set the aircraft up while these guys are still working. I feel that we should stay out the way until they're done... and then go in to the flight-deck, and get things sorted out. As for the delay... put it down to "Aircraft Snag"... Not necessarily "Technical" (as in... who is to blame for the delay). My point here is that we should take the schedule seriously, but not as seriously as safety.
If however, we're already up front, and a techie comes into the FD, I feel that he should't just start doing his work (chatting on a blaring two-way radio, moving switches, calling for, or just leaning over and selecting ECAM / EICAS pages, etc) without due concern for what is taking place in the two front seats (briefings, checklists, radio, nav' way-point insertions, etc). This of course, all happens while trim-clerks, ramp agents, and cabin-crew are also moving in and out of the FD to get things done.
Is this a common problem, or is the culture unique to our airline?
My big issue is that this is a huge distraction, and in an information rich environment, things can easily get buggered-up.
Just interested...
Cheers,
Pitch&Fan
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It is a big issue...years ago the airline I worked for at the time taught a really good course called Time Management and it involved the how to juggle the constantly changing population of preflight visitors to the flight deck. Some guys chased them all out until they were in the seat and squared away and then let the issues become important by priority. In other words the biggest problem got first attention. Still works, and one has to be able to differentiate what gets ones attention first and so on. Schedule does play an important role, but safety must never be sacrificed for schedule...at least not on my deck...Setting the tone early by understanding that in the minds of all those with jobs to do (in order to get you launched) and who expect and want your undivided attention and by treating them with professional respect is a good way to keep the time management issue on the front burner. Although when some guy barges into your office and doesnt even say hello or ask to work on whatever he was asked to do requires a little tactful interruption...like asking who they are and what brings them into your office? It happens once in a while and usually by some guy under a bit of pre departure stress...A simple rule is to try to help him out by dropping a quick intro on him... (Hi Im so and so...can we help you with anything?) Treat em all with a bit of respect and calm professionalism and it should get done on time...If your airline has a blame culture for delays etc maybe a deeper problem exists with the very culture of the company and that should clue a guy into how he wants to run his operation...in many cases CYA and think about how any decision you might make will look at the inquest. Good luck...
LC
LC
Last edited by Left Coaster; 8th Sep 2008 at 09:56. Reason: spelling
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What I'm concerned about is that we so often end up trying to set the aircraft up while these guys are still working. I feel that we should stay out the way until they're done... and then go in to the flight-deck, and get things sorted out. As for the delay... put it down to "Aircraft Snag"... Not necessarily "Technical" (as in... who is to blame for the delay). My point here is that we should take the schedule seriously, but not as seriously as safety.
I was working on a light turboprop several years ago when a crewmember felt it necessary to enter the cockpit and begin doing something. My work required entry from a panel directly in front of the left propeller, and imagine my surprise when I heard the power starter and saw the prop begin to turn. I was fortunate...and so was the idiot who climbed into the cockpit while I was working. I could have been killed, and failing that, so could he, when I got hold of him.
If maintenance still has things to do when you're in the cockpit, perhaps it's a little early for you to be there.
With personnel working on the aircraft, people having access to electrical controls, pneumatic controls, hydraulic controls, flight controls, etc...is a dangerous thing. Especially if they're not working closely with the maintenance personnel, and in constant communication.
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Well put Guppy. Exactly how we did it in the military...... either maintenance has the aircraft or the aircrew but never both!!! We stayed out til they finished fixing it THEN we signed for it.
My pet peeve is the numerous interruptions from customer service agents asking permission to close the doors as soon as boarding is completed- albeit with a light pax load and it being 15-20 mins before sked departure. They seem ignorant of the fact that it takes us about the same time to prepare the aircraft prior to each departure, no matter what the pax load.
I do enjoy working with captains who brief the In Charge F/A NOT to let these people into the cockpit.
My pet peeve is the numerous interruptions from customer service agents asking permission to close the doors as soon as boarding is completed- albeit with a light pax load and it being 15-20 mins before sked departure. They seem ignorant of the fact that it takes us about the same time to prepare the aircraft prior to each departure, no matter what the pax load.
I do enjoy working with captains who brief the In Charge F/A NOT to let these people into the cockpit.
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Two things:
1. "...how we did it in the military..." - You aren't in the military any longer and therefore a slightly different skill set and understanding is required
2. It is possible to close doors 20 mins before departure (assuming all parperwork is aboard) and still finish prepping the FD.
BS
1. "...how we did it in the military..." - You aren't in the military any longer and therefore a slightly different skill set and understanding is required
2. It is possible to close doors 20 mins before departure (assuming all parperwork is aboard) and still finish prepping the FD.
BS
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I stay out until they are finished. I dont know on what they are working on exactly and therefore i wont turn a switch til they have released the aircraft or i got permission from them to start my stuff, punctuality is nice but it wont help anyone if safety is compromised. Unfortunately some people are more obsessed about punctuality than anything else. Just a question of time until they get a wakeup call...
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My pet bug-bear is the numerous disruptions for trivial reasons while doing pre-departure checks. Recently, while setting up the FMC, I noted six interuptions and most of them were to sign some unimportant piece of paper to keep the bureaucrats happy. After each interruption, you turn back to the FMC and say "Now where was I again?" It's a right pain in the back-side.
I find the whole pre-departure thing the most stressful part of the whole operation. You are talking to dispatchers, agents, cabin crew, engineers, ATC, the FO, head set operatives, etc......and some times all at the same time! And trying to get the checks done. And signing bits of paper. And keeping an eye on the slot. And welcoming pax on board. And doing several other things.
I reckon that it's only when you have finally pushed back with the engines started and the tow bar disconnected that you can finally relax and get on with enjoyable bit of the job, ie. flying the aeroplane.
OK, rant over.
I find the whole pre-departure thing the most stressful part of the whole operation. You are talking to dispatchers, agents, cabin crew, engineers, ATC, the FO, head set operatives, etc......and some times all at the same time! And trying to get the checks done. And signing bits of paper. And keeping an eye on the slot. And welcoming pax on board. And doing several other things.
I reckon that it's only when you have finally pushed back with the engines started and the tow bar disconnected that you can finally relax and get on with enjoyable bit of the job, ie. flying the aeroplane.
OK, rant over.
Last edited by amber 1; 16th Sep 2008 at 23:15.
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How we did it in the military
Bug Speed
You are critical of Tuskegee Airmans reply. Is that because you disagree with the philosophy he supports, ie separating maintenance from operations? Or is it just because he was in the military? Would someone who said exactly like in my last airline face the same criticism? Different skills and understanding are required between any differing types or operators. The objective should be to gain best practice from all. That may even mean from the military.
I wonder if Tuskegee Airman flies with a red tail.
You are critical of Tuskegee Airmans reply. Is that because you disagree with the philosophy he supports, ie separating maintenance from operations? Or is it just because he was in the military? Would someone who said exactly like in my last airline face the same criticism? Different skills and understanding are required between any differing types or operators. The objective should be to gain best practice from all. That may even mean from the military.
I wonder if Tuskegee Airman flies with a red tail.
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No red tail..... yet Artificial Horizon!!
BUGSPEED, TWO THINGS
1) SEE POST IMMEDIATELY ABOVE
2) RE YOUR 2ND POINT, I FULLY APPRECIATE THE DOORS CAN BE CLOSED EARLY. MY PROBLEM IS- WHY INTERRUPT MY DUTIES JUST BECAUSE YOURS ARE DONE? WHEN ALL PAX ARE ABOARD SIMPLY HAND-OVER TO THE IN-CHARGE F/A THEN STAY OUT OF THE WAY TIL THE AIRCRAFT HAS BEEN PREPPED.
BUGSPEED, TWO THINGS
1) SEE POST IMMEDIATELY ABOVE
2) RE YOUR 2ND POINT, I FULLY APPRECIATE THE DOORS CAN BE CLOSED EARLY. MY PROBLEM IS- WHY INTERRUPT MY DUTIES JUST BECAUSE YOURS ARE DONE? WHEN ALL PAX ARE ABOARD SIMPLY HAND-OVER TO THE IN-CHARGE F/A THEN STAY OUT OF THE WAY TIL THE AIRCRAFT HAS BEEN PREPPED.
