First Officer "assertiveness" versus Captain's "authority"???
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
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Its a fine line for an F/O but the bottom line for me is that if what the bloke in the LHS is doing is not going to kill me then use tact in the way you bring it to his attention. Also have in the back of your mind what your model for a successful outcome for a particular situation is and if what the Captain is doing is close too it then no problem. As with most things in aviation it is a dynamic situation and in the end commonsense and experience will determine your best course of action.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: SV Marie Celeste
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The gerona accident due to an inexperienced FO? you must have read a different accident report to everybody else. Without iducing thread creep here the basics where: A stormy night in the med, arrived with insuficient fuel (about 15minutes extra) change of wind direction forced a non precision app, captain takes over from FO, speed brake left deployed burns the excess fuel they had, G/a and rnwy changes again, very short of fuel now they do an ILS, airport lights fail at about 100' and spatial disorientation ensues. Add a good mix of poor ATC and bad luck and there for the grace of God go all of us.
I can't remember how many hours the FO had but it was 2000 plus. I seem to remember that he makes consistent good calls all they way except he does not call GO AROUND at the crucial point (ie when they lost the lights).
When I think of it you could not have chosen a worst example
Calling go around is in no way comparable to calling stop, most SOP's reflect this. A go around is an inherently safe maneuvre, an RTO performed at the wrong time can be prety devastating.
I wonder if your confidence extends to also ignoring a GA call from ATC. After all once you have all the facts and your situational awareness reaches such enlighted levels you can also allow for the inexperience, the nationality and the poor training of the controler?
I wonder what was going through the KLM captain's head in Tenerife when the FO was objecting. Probably something like the musings you have given us
I can't remember how many hours the FO had but it was 2000 plus. I seem to remember that he makes consistent good calls all they way except he does not call GO AROUND at the crucial point (ie when they lost the lights).
When I think of it you could not have chosen a worst example
Calling go around is in no way comparable to calling stop, most SOP's reflect this. A go around is an inherently safe maneuvre, an RTO performed at the wrong time can be prety devastating.
I wonder if your confidence extends to also ignoring a GA call from ATC. After all once you have all the facts and your situational awareness reaches such enlighted levels you can also allow for the inexperience, the nationality and the poor training of the controler?
I wonder what was going through the KLM captain's head in Tenerife when the FO was objecting. Probably something like the musings you have given us
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Poland
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Don't you think that cultural matters may also interfere with the first officer's decision to call another g/a? For example people from Asia are known to be paying more attention and have greater respect for the authority of their superiors. I think this was one of the reasons of the Korean Airlines 801 crash on Guam in 1997, wasn't it?
Democracy in the cockpit:
If perchance the chappie in the left chair is seemingly intent with pressing on regardless with an unstable and potentially highly dangerous final approach - and he disregards the second-in-command's exhortations to go around. In this situation the danger is made worse if the 2ic attempts to wrestle with the controls in an attempt to save the day by taking over.
A painless and very effective action is for the second-in-command to simply reach over and select the landing gear selector to UP. Few captains faced with this outrageous action by his minion in the RH seat, will then deliberately land wheels up. And voila! - a go around is performed with no one hurt apart from the captain's pride. Sort it later...
A painless and very effective action is for the second-in-command to simply reach over and select the landing gear selector to UP. Few captains faced with this outrageous action by his minion in the RH seat, will then deliberately land wheels up. And voila! - a go around is performed with no one hurt apart from the captain's pride. Sort it later...
