BA 747 off the RW in MIA
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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Slight thread creep. I wonder if the Bliars had to go through all the nausea of airport security in London and then the usual welcoming performance from the Department of Homeland Security in the States.
I'd hate to think that having been largely responsible for the mess we are in that he missed having his shoes x-rayed or his pile ointment confiscated
I'd hate to think that having been largely responsible for the mess we are in that he missed having his shoes x-rayed or his pile ointment confiscated
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TheOddOne
You are completely wrong on both counts. The a/c never left any paved surface.
The BA 747 was the third a/c to do this within a short period, MIA ground know all about it and maintenance on the TWY is scheduled. But a shame to let the facts get in the way of a good story, eh?
VFR - yes I do know the reg but I can't imagine why you'd need to know so I'm not telling you!
You are completely wrong on both counts. The a/c never left any paved surface.
The BA 747 was the third a/c to do this within a short period, MIA ground know all about it and maintenance on the TWY is scheduled. But a shame to let the facts get in the way of a good story, eh?
VFR - yes I do know the reg but I can't imagine why you'd need to know so I'm not telling you!
There's no 'good' story here. We all need the 'facts' so that we can prevent a recurrence, whether we're pilots or airport operators.
I'm pleased to see that my aspiration that the NTSB investigate is happening.
TOO
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I don't think we can call this an "overshoot". not even an "overrun". instead it is a taxi incident.
my earlier post indicating the colors of the lights on the runway etc. were meant to allow us all to consider being darn slow once the centerline lights are all red.
as to centerline lights leading off the runway to the taxiway, that quite possibly could have helped avoid the whole incident.
my earlier post indicating the colors of the lights on the runway etc. were meant to allow us all to consider being darn slow once the centerline lights are all red.
as to centerline lights leading off the runway to the taxiway, that quite possibly could have helped avoid the whole incident.
Controversial, moi?
From my understanding what looked like a taxiway wasn't and once they realised they may have hit a light they elected to stop and ask for assistance rather than risk exacerbating the damage.
I also understand that the light they hit was not illuminated either.
Hands up anybody who has never become confused at night at an unfamiliar airfield.
Sounds to me like the aircrew made an honest mistake and demonstrated intelligent airmanship by seeking assistance rather than blunder around trying to recover from a confusing situation.
The fact the aircraft was undamaged would indicate that only pride was hurt and the fact that they were the third aircraft in recent times to do the same would indicate that something more than an error of judgement was at work.
I also understand that the light they hit was not illuminated either.
Hands up anybody who has never become confused at night at an unfamiliar airfield.
Sounds to me like the aircrew made an honest mistake and demonstrated intelligent airmanship by seeking assistance rather than blunder around trying to recover from a confusing situation.
The fact the aircraft was undamaged would indicate that only pride was hurt and the fact that they were the third aircraft in recent times to do the same would indicate that something more than an error of judgement was at work.
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M. Mouse:
I've even been confused at my home airfield at night, even in daylight.
I recall a tragic crash in DTW where confusion caused a collision on the ground.
apparently there are not ''taxiway lead off lights'', but as I haven't been to Miami in about 5 years, I will wait for someone who has recently been there.
I think if all airports were bulldozed and rebuilt with new standards on lights, signage and configuration, we would see very different looking airports.
I've even been confused at my home airfield at night, even in daylight.
I recall a tragic crash in DTW where confusion caused a collision on the ground.
apparently there are not ''taxiway lead off lights'', but as I haven't been to Miami in about 5 years, I will wait for someone who has recently been there.
I think if all airports were bulldozed and rebuilt with new standards on lights, signage and configuration, we would see very different looking airports.
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I quote the AIS that was available to the crew (I assume from the posts that they landed on 30)..
"Exercise extreme caution when taxing clear of RWY 30 via exit at end of RWY due to unusual lighting characteristic".
What is that exactly? Fifth of July fireworks? A laser show? You work it out.
At the end of the day the crew went for the safe option. No-one hurt. An excellent result despite poor briefing availability. This is a small demonstration of the lack of information that is available on a world-wide basis to professional crews who have to make the best of someone else's poor collation of airfield unserviceabilities.
The fact that is doesn't happen more often is testament to the experienced instinct and perceptive appraisal of the information that is made available to them, often at short notice.
"Exercise extreme caution when taxing clear of RWY 30 via exit at end of RWY due to unusual lighting characteristic".
What is that exactly? Fifth of July fireworks? A laser show? You work it out.
At the end of the day the crew went for the safe option. No-one hurt. An excellent result despite poor briefing availability. This is a small demonstration of the lack of information that is available on a world-wide basis to professional crews who have to make the best of someone else's poor collation of airfield unserviceabilities.
The fact that is doesn't happen more often is testament to the experienced instinct and perceptive appraisal of the information that is made available to them, often at short notice.
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Looks like the Crew were 100% right in my book: They exercised extreme caution and decided it was not safe to taxi clear if they did not know where they were due to the lighting. The took the aircraft safely out of danger and in the runway run off area, rather than stop on the runway itself.
In my view if there are issues with the runway exit, the airport are at fault for not having a follow me van out there to cover all situations.
PPRuNe Person
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This kind of thing happens reularly at JFK as well. The area near the BA terminal is very difficult to operate a 747 in especially in heavy rain with standing water. There are very few taxyway lights and is is almost impossible to distinguish the taxyway centreline especially with sodium lighting in the background. You try to taxy safely whilst GMC is bellowing 'hurry up' at you. Armchair pilots, flightsim experts and Monday morning quarterbacks are welcome to have a go!
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Lawyers for Tony Blair, BA, and the UK Government have commenced action for unspecified damages, against the designers, manufacturers and installers of the ... runway lighting. 
They are citing a clear precedent.
They are citing a clear precedent.
try to taxy safely whilst GMC is bellowing 'hurry up' at you
Needless to say we ignored the lot of them and continued when the FO and I were satisfied that we could get through safely
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Tony Blair 'recovering' . . .
I just loved the Sun this morning . . .
"PM Tony Blair was recovering last night at Bee Gee Robin Gibb’s £5million home after his jet was caught in a landing scare in the US.
The BA 747 overshot the runway and smashed into lights in Miami, Florida."
and so on ad nauseam
"PM Tony Blair was recovering last night at Bee Gee Robin Gibb’s £5million home after his jet was caught in a landing scare in the US.
The BA 747 overshot the runway and smashed into lights in Miami, Florida."
and so on ad nauseam
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his jet was caught in a landing scare
It wasn't caught in anything - do they mean like in a net or something?
No-one was scared
It wasn't landing, it was taxying clear of the runway
So the accurate words in the above quote are 'jet' and err.. that's it
And journos wonder why we get frustrated with them printing any old inaccurate rubbish in order to sell newspapers which we then buy and read and get frustrated at etc etc
I'm off to lie on the sofa....
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I was the pilot on the 209. This is a highly public forum and it is quite sad that this is no longer a professional pilots forum. However i can say that the lighting is completely unacceptable and non standard. The NTSB has verified this. More details later.
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pedropedro
it is good that you are speaking out...instead of publishing in the jepps or posting on the ATIS that taxiway exiting can be confusing on RW30, that non standard lighting exists and that caution should be used...WE ALL HAD TO FIND OUT THE HARD WAY thanks to BA.
Warning to all pilots : be careful always at all airports at all times.
on the NOS plates there is a special inset at the taxiway in question.
it is good that you are speaking out...instead of publishing in the jepps or posting on the ATIS that taxiway exiting can be confusing on RW30, that non standard lighting exists and that caution should be used...WE ALL HAD TO FIND OUT THE HARD WAY thanks to BA.
Warning to all pilots : be careful always at all airports at all times.
on the NOS plates there is a special inset at the taxiway in question.
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Strictly speaking, it wasn't a jet. It was an aircraft. (The jet is the air that comes out of the engines.)
So the only accurate word in the headline was the word "was."
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regarding "continue the approach" vs. landing clearance.
In the US, we see this happen and work with it. But, once you are in the vicinity of the approach lights, one does start to demand a landing clearance.
to ATC people, most airlines now demand some sort of written report if a go around is initiated below 1000' AFE. So, if we are going to play the "continue the approach " game, fine...but don't forget about us on short final.
In the US, we see this happen and work with it. But, once you are in the vicinity of the approach lights, one does start to demand a landing clearance.
to ATC people, most airlines now demand some sort of written report if a go around is initiated below 1000' AFE. So, if we are going to play the "continue the approach " game, fine...but don't forget about us on short final.
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regarding "continue the approach" vs. landing clearance.
In the US, we see this happen and work with it. But, once you are in the vicinity of the approach lights, one does start to demand a landing clearance.
to ATC people, most airlines now demand some sort of written report if a go around is initiated below 1000' AFE. So, if we are going to play the "continue the approach " game, fine...but don't forget about us on short final.
In the US, we see this happen and work with it. But, once you are in the vicinity of the approach lights, one does start to demand a landing clearance.
to ATC people, most airlines now demand some sort of written report if a go around is initiated below 1000' AFE. So, if we are going to play the "continue the approach " game, fine...but don't forget about us on short final.