Single Engine (Piston) IFR

[Arctic_Aviator]

Hi All!

I am currently nearing the end of my instrument rating and have been having some discussions with fellow students regarding the safety (or lack thereof) regarding flying SEP IFR trips in IMC conditions.

What exactly would you do, when flying IMC and you experience an engine failure? (Assuming prevailing conditions pertain to difficulty reaching VMC)

The thought of flying some sort of non precision approach, at night time with weather near minima and high surrounding terrain seems rather daunting!

I would sincerely appreciate any feedback anyone has regarding this.

Food for thought and healthy discussion nonetheless?!

Cheers

Arctic

[saudipc-9]

Arctic,
Well there is not much that you could do. Assuming that you have a battery you might have instruments depending on what type they are so I would maintain my x-check and attempt an engine restart. If that does not work the best thing would be to transmit a mayday, maintain your best glide speed, tighten your harness and hope to not run into something big! Have a good look at what the ground elevation is so you will have a good idea as to when to expect the ground. Basically single engine IFR in IMC you're screwed with an engine failure.
cheers
SPC-9

[Approaching Minimums]

That is a very good question, Arctic... An engine failure in conditions which are close to your operating IMC minimums is definitely very difficult situation. There isn't anything special which you can do, just fly the plane using best glide speed, try to start engine again and send a mayday call... You could also try to plot your position to VFR chart using nav aids which would give you a better picture of the ground below. Surely it helps too if you are already familiar with the scenery and you have been flying in the area in VMC conditions before.

Of course the MSA will give you good information as well. I would try to look outside more intensively perhaps when gliding below MSA... if you are only 300-400ft feet above the estimated terrain altitude (location plotted from VFR-chart for example) but without visual contact, I would perhaps select the flaps fully down, slow down near the stalling speed and prepare for the impact without the contact but still trying to look outside for visual clues. This would at least give you a smaller speed at the time when you hit the ground.

The same difficult situation applies for night VFR flights as well... Think about the situation where there is overcast layer, not many lights visible on the ground and a very dark night...

Ahh, the wonderful world of flying single engine pistons...


Happy landings,
-AM-

[Malcolm G O Payne]

Single-engine IFR

Admittedly this was some years ago, but our CAA Flight Ops Inspector insisted that we had to have a minimum 1000feet AGL
forecast for the route.. If not, we didn't go. At least the company agreed to using twins on the routes

[backofthedrag]

I recall on my single engine IFR test with the CAA that they required a cloud base of 1500' agl over 50% of the test route.

[BigEndBob]

At our flying school we were always flogging off into imc in Cessna's and Piper's, only way you could make any money during English winter (and summers!).

Think most of the time you just keep your fingers crossed.
Even if the forecast is supposed to be 1000' cloud base it can very quickly lower in rain.

I had a partial engine failure whilst above cloud and deep haze. You find yourself not only trying to keep engine going but also trying to fix exactly where you are ....not good. I learnt that you should get someone else to do the nav., call for a QDM or get radar fix so that you can concentrate on the main problem. Also keep ontop of your position, bit tricky when constantly turning back and fourth doing upper air work, but at least you know the terrain below.

[skyviews]

Having flown C172's for the last three years in IMC almost weekly I can say the best thing to do is not think about it!

No seriously with 2000 hours on type about 600 of those IFR never had a problem, thats not to say I never will.

I think the thing that stands out here is that your position should be crystal in your mind relative to vfr map, I never fly without a VFR map tracking my position continuously and always use a RIS, RAS if available, NEVER NEVER scud run.


Another point to consider is what assures you that two engines will make it any easier, at all up weight some twins, regardless of what that magic book says will not give you a climb to clear obstacles in flight path. or maintain level flight.

"sometimes 2nd engine takes you to the crash site " to quote a CAA examiner.

[AerocatS2A]

Declare mayday, assume best glide, request radar assistance if available, look at chart and try to dead reckon yourself to flat land.

[fireflybob]

I am surprised that nobody yet has suggested that you point the aircraft towards the nearest suitable aerodrome! And when I say this you need to point yourself direct to the OVERHEAD (ie not final approach) since at least if you can make the overhead you can spiral down and you will (hopefully) be breaking cloud over a runway where there may be lights and fire cover etc. Also if its a partial failure I would advise the same technique using, if possible, any available power to gain height.

Also if you choose to fly IMC in this situation a slight alteration of the route can reap big safety benefits by avoiding higher terrain and/or routing close to suitable airports for diversion.

[White Bear]

Gentlemen I’m not trying to be clever, second guess, suggest anything anyone would be uncomfortable with, but what is wrong with flying with a moving map GPS?

My 295 does not show terrain, (the new 296/395? does) but it does give position, and will at the press of a button tell you in what direction and how far away is the nearest airport. I’m not suggesting you rely upon it as a primary navigation tool, but when the devil is driving, anything that reduces the workload and keeps your head out of the cockpit, must help to increase your chances of surviving.

Imagine when in IMC, the engine stops, and your not exactly sure of where you are, or where the nearest airport is, or is there any flat terrain nearby, and suddenly a guardian angel appears in the cockpit and says “Write me a cheque for $2500.00, and I’ll show you which way to go.” Only a fool would refuse, the wise man would consider it money well spent. What would be wrong in spending the money now and saving your self the worry?
Regards,
White Bear.

[zerozero]

Simple math

I answered a similiar question in a similiar forum in a similiar way: Forget about the stupid button.

The only thing that button does is calculate the closest airport.

What you really want to know (and should have already calculated in your head) is: Where is the high terrain and what direction should I turn when the engine stop turning?

I flew single engine airplanes IFR over mountains and large bodies of water in Alaska. I constantly asked myself: If the engine stopped turning right now which direction would I turn?

It's a constant process.

You cannot simply drive along unconscious of your environment and then when everything heads south, just punch a button that magically saves the day.

It's just not that simple.
Fly the airplane.
Good luck.

[Wrongstuff]

I was told a long time ago, SE IFR at night engine failure, all the checks done, at 200ft agl turn on the landing light....if you don't like what you see, turn it off!