Technical need for verification?
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Technical need for verification?
Technical need for verbal verification?
Some airlines have mandatory standard verbal callouts to confirm that the landing gear is up. For example:
“Positive rate” by Pilot Monitoring (PM) - used by most airlines
“Gear up” by Pilot Flying (PF) - used by most airlines
“Gear up selected” (PM) - only used by a few airlines
“Gear is up” (PM) - only used by a few airlines
Is there a technical need to have a mandatory call for "gear up selected" and "gear is up"?
Will it improve safety?
Too much talking?
How do you do it at your airline?
What does the manufacturers say Boeing, Airbus, Beech, Dash, EMB and others please?
Some airlines have mandatory standard verbal callouts to confirm that the landing gear is up. For example:
“Positive rate” by Pilot Monitoring (PM) - used by most airlines
“Gear up” by Pilot Flying (PF) - used by most airlines
“Gear up selected” (PM) - only used by a few airlines
“Gear is up” (PM) - only used by a few airlines
Is there a technical need to have a mandatory call for "gear up selected" and "gear is up"?
Will it improve safety?
Too much talking?
How do you do it at your airline?
What does the manufacturers say Boeing, Airbus, Beech, Dash, EMB and others please?
Join Date: May 2002
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What I like to see, personally, is:-
PNF:- "Positive climb" (or "Positive rate")
PF:- "Gear up"
PNF:- "Gear up selected"
Later, in the after takeoff checks:-
PNF:- "Gear is up (and off), lights out"
The need for the verbal verification is (partly) so the CVR has a record of what is done on the Flight Deck, but mainly so the PF has confirmation of what is being done over the other side, is "in trhe loop" if his attention is all on the instruments. For the same reason, I place strong emphasis on PNF confirming "After Takeoff Checks complete" or "Approach Checks complete, Finals Checks next" or similar.
PNF:- "Positive climb" (or "Positive rate")
PF:- "Gear up"
PNF:- "Gear up selected"
Later, in the after takeoff checks:-
PNF:- "Gear is up (and off), lights out"
The need for the verbal verification is (partly) so the CVR has a record of what is done on the Flight Deck, but mainly so the PF has confirmation of what is being done over the other side, is "in trhe loop" if his attention is all on the instruments. For the same reason, I place strong emphasis on PNF confirming "After Takeoff Checks complete" or "Approach Checks complete, Finals Checks next" or similar.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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If the gear isn't up then you'd get a gear warning light, or gear door warning light on most transport category jets.
Best procedures are simplified: Limited to callouts only when something is incorrect, or otherwise abnormal.
Best procedures are simplified: Limited to callouts only when something is incorrect, or otherwise abnormal.
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In general I agree with you, Glueball, with a couple of exceptions. One is that a request or instruction from one pilot to the other needs to be acknowledged, and checks need to be called aloud. Hence my phraseology above.
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Captain Stable, why do you want to hear NHP say "Gear Up Selected"?
If he does it you will know all about it (noise, lever in up position, indicators changing etc....), if he doesn't do it you will also know all about it............(none of the above). Why is there a requirement for needless mouth music?
If he does it you will know all about it (noise, lever in up position, indicators changing etc....), if he doesn't do it you will also know all about it............(none of the above). Why is there a requirement for needless mouth music?
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No, you won't necessarily know about it.
Firstly, different aircraft behave differently and have different noise characteristics. Secondly, if the gear for some reason is misbehaving, it's at least comforting to know (before you have to ask him politely) that he selected it up, but nothing is moving. In the third place, as I say above, acknowledgement of instructions to provide feedback to the guy with his eyes glued to the instruments is helpful. It's not helpful to insist that the guy has to peer around the flightdeck just to find out if you've followed his request when it takes no trouble at all just to acknowledge him, and to confirm that you're still awake and taking notice. So, in the fourth place you confirm that you are not incapacitated at a rather vital stage of flight. And finally, so you can tell the CVR that it's done and the survivors or the relatives of the victims don't sue you or your widow.
So it's rather more than your dismissive term "mouth music".
Firstly, different aircraft behave differently and have different noise characteristics. Secondly, if the gear for some reason is misbehaving, it's at least comforting to know (before you have to ask him politely) that he selected it up, but nothing is moving. In the third place, as I say above, acknowledgement of instructions to provide feedback to the guy with his eyes glued to the instruments is helpful. It's not helpful to insist that the guy has to peer around the flightdeck just to find out if you've followed his request when it takes no trouble at all just to acknowledge him, and to confirm that you're still awake and taking notice. So, in the fourth place you confirm that you are not incapacitated at a rather vital stage of flight. And finally, so you can tell the CVR that it's done and the survivors or the relatives of the victims don't sue you or your widow.
So it's rather more than your dismissive term "mouth music".
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LDg up sequence
It forces the PNF (pilot non flying) to monitor in which sequence the landing gear/doors go up/close just in case the gear is stuck (red light, indeed). That will help in taking a decision on whhat to do next: which checklist to go through. I flew A320 and BAe 146: not both a/c are the same in terms of landing gear management...
