Aborted T/O
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: somewhere in europe
Aborted T/O
Hello,
what is the procedure for an aborted T/O when the F/O see that something is unusual! Shall he say "STOP" or shall he descripe the fault, so that the comander can decide to abort or to continue?
what is the procedure for an aborted T/O when the F/O see that something is unusual! Shall he say "STOP" or shall he descripe the fault, so that the comander can decide to abort or to continue?
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 57
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From: Land of the midnight sun
Hi 738,
In our company the SOP states that only the captain can make the reject command! However the F/O is expected to bring any malfunction to the attention of the Captain. The F/O is also expected to be ready to perform the reject if the CAPT. is incapacitated!
Hope this helps
Cheers
In our company the SOP states that only the captain can make the reject command! However the F/O is expected to bring any malfunction to the attention of the Captain. The F/O is also expected to be ready to perform the reject if the CAPT. is incapacitated!
Hope this helps
Cheers
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 83
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From: Haywards Heath
You must check your individual company's Standard Operating Procedures in your Operations Manual which should define the extent of responsibilities of each crew member.
Some companies allow FOs to reject take offs; with others the FO can raise a concern but the Captain has the ultimate decision whether to reject or not.
Generally speaking (and check that this does not contradict your own company's rules) you would stop for any malfunction (within reason) up to a nominated speed, eg 80kts, and then only stop for major problems up until V1, such as fire, control jam, runway incursion etc. One of the reasons for this is that a high speed rejection has implications for brake overheat and/or tyre bursts.
You will have a standard brief to perform prior to a right seat PF take off, and within this you should discuss who calls "STOP", who controls the aircraft during the stop, and the duties of each crew member during and after the stop.
If your company does not allow FOs to call "STOP" then I would suggest you keep any malfunction calls as short as possible during this critical stage of flight. Eg call "YELLOW GEN FAIL CAPTION" rather than "There seems to be a problem with one of the generators, what shall we do?"
Some companies allow FOs to reject take offs; with others the FO can raise a concern but the Captain has the ultimate decision whether to reject or not.
Generally speaking (and check that this does not contradict your own company's rules) you would stop for any malfunction (within reason) up to a nominated speed, eg 80kts, and then only stop for major problems up until V1, such as fire, control jam, runway incursion etc. One of the reasons for this is that a high speed rejection has implications for brake overheat and/or tyre bursts.
You will have a standard brief to perform prior to a right seat PF take off, and within this you should discuss who calls "STOP", who controls the aircraft during the stop, and the duties of each crew member during and after the stop.
If your company does not allow FOs to call "STOP" then I would suggest you keep any malfunction calls as short as possible during this critical stage of flight. Eg call "YELLOW GEN FAIL CAPTION" rather than "There seems to be a problem with one of the generators, what shall we do?"
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 40
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From: Gatwick
I agree with all above.
For info in our company an FO can decide to abort the take-off in specific circumstances.
There are 5 mandatory stop reasons during T/O:
Any Fire Warning;
an engine failure confirmed with at least 2 parameters;
a take-off Config warning;
"Windshear Ahead" warning or a
"Monitor Radar Display" caution (which is also windshear detected in the initial take-off path).
Any of those pop up and either pilot will call "stop"
Plus, if the FO is the handling pilot he may also call, and perform, the RTO if he/she has serious control difficulties or there is an obviously blocked runway.
Anything else happens and the FO will clearly state the problem and the Captain will respond with "Stop" or "Continue".
If the FO is handling they will perform the RTO down to a slow speed (or to a stop if the capt prefers) at which point the captain will take control.
I hope that's of help / interest.
For info in our company an FO can decide to abort the take-off in specific circumstances.
There are 5 mandatory stop reasons during T/O:
Any Fire Warning;
an engine failure confirmed with at least 2 parameters;
a take-off Config warning;
"Windshear Ahead" warning or a
"Monitor Radar Display" caution (which is also windshear detected in the initial take-off path).
Any of those pop up and either pilot will call "stop"
Plus, if the FO is the handling pilot he may also call, and perform, the RTO if he/she has serious control difficulties or there is an obviously blocked runway.
Anything else happens and the FO will clearly state the problem and the Captain will respond with "Stop" or "Continue".
If the FO is handling they will perform the RTO down to a slow speed (or to a stop if the capt prefers) at which point the captain will take control.
I hope that's of help / interest.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,598
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From: Down south, USA.
Must the plane be aborted much above 80 knots for an engine fire light (possibly a bleed air leak or malfunctioning sensor), if the plane could slide off a wet or snowy runway, especially with a strong crosswind or tailwind?
If both engines are putting out takeoff power, a loud fire bell is hard to ignore, but (at higher speeds) and with two good engines, etc, the non-flying pilot can cancel the fire bell, especially if briefed on it. Unless an engine then has another serious problem, the plane will fly and we should probably continue under most conditions, should we not? The EPR gauge is the least reliable, but with normal stable readings on all N1, EGT and N2 gauges, you have full or flex power.
This idea was not common years ago, especially in the military, but nowadays, many very experienced Instructors and Check Airmen suggest only aborting at high speed for an engine (or reversor) thrust problem. Even if you lose i.e. an Emer AC bus (Captain's horizon), you should have the standby AND the FO's horizon. Even a loud bang from a tire should not make the plane uncontrollable, unless you feel it pull to one side (now sure that it is both tires), but if you abort due to a loud bang, with max braking you might blow out some other tires.
If both engines are putting out takeoff power, a loud fire bell is hard to ignore, but (at higher speeds) and with two good engines, etc, the non-flying pilot can cancel the fire bell, especially if briefed on it. Unless an engine then has another serious problem, the plane will fly and we should probably continue under most conditions, should we not? The EPR gauge is the least reliable, but with normal stable readings on all N1, EGT and N2 gauges, you have full or flex power.
This idea was not common years ago, especially in the military, but nowadays, many very experienced Instructors and Check Airmen suggest only aborting at high speed for an engine (or reversor) thrust problem. Even if you lose i.e. an Emer AC bus (Captain's horizon), you should have the standby AND the FO's horizon. Even a loud bang from a tire should not make the plane uncontrollable, unless you feel it pull to one side (now sure that it is both tires), but if you abort due to a loud bang, with max braking you might blow out some other tires.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 42
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From: Far away from civilisation
Hey Ignition Override,
The speeds take wet and snowy conditions (if you use the correct tables) into account. Your QRH will tell you how much crosswind you should be able to handle with the actual friction coefficient. Before V1 it should be an abort in case of a fire warning. Maybe not if you have time enough and good knowledge of your aircraft and are 100% sure it's an indicator fault.
The speeds take wet and snowy conditions (if you use the correct tables) into account. Your QRH will tell you how much crosswind you should be able to handle with the actual friction coefficient. Before V1 it should be an abort in case of a fire warning. Maybe not if you have time enough and good knowledge of your aircraft and are 100% sure it's an indicator fault.
