marshaller move ahead signal
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marshaller move ahead signal
Hi,
Recently a colleague and me had a small discussion about the meaning of the "MOVE AHEAD" signal of a marshaller.
Does it mean A: follow the yellow line in,
or does it mean: B: tiller straight and proceed straight ahead.
I know what most people think, I am just trying to find the exact meaning on paper. So please no personal opinions unless paper proof!
Gr.
Spuis
Recently a colleague and me had a small discussion about the meaning of the "MOVE AHEAD" signal of a marshaller.
Does it mean A: follow the yellow line in,
or does it mean: B: tiller straight and proceed straight ahead.
I know what most people think, I am just trying to find the exact meaning on paper. So please no personal opinions unless paper proof!
Gr.
Spuis
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It must mean 'move ahead'.
On stands with no yellow line, that is the only option.
The procedure would obviously have to apply to all types of stands, not just 'yellow liners' <---- good terminology
On stands with no yellow line, that is the only option.
The procedure would obviously have to apply to all types of stands, not just 'yellow liners' <---- good terminology
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It means "proceed staight ahead" (US AIM 4-3-25) with the tiller centered, nothing about any yellow lines. Marshalling planes into the gate was part of my job for some years and a good 50% of pilots did not follow this and many other signals regularly which annoyed the sh!t out of us guiding them in. The problem with this one is that in some cases (if the pilot didn't properly turn onto the centerline as to center the mains on the line, not just the nose) if the guideman does not overshoot you thru the centerline and then turn you back onto it the main gears will not be centered by the time you reach the blocks and the mains must be centered as well for the aircraft to be on the right spot so the wings don't stick out of the gate envelope, this is most pronounced with long aircraft and short gate taxi combo. If you were to follow the centerline with the nose gear if he/she gives the "proceed straight ahead" then how would the guideman center the aircraft onto the centerline?! as there's no other signal left to accomplich this.
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tomcat69
Absolutely spot on! Exactly why it can't mean follow the line.
One of our marshallers (guidemen, I like that!) once threw his marshallling bats at the cockpit of an a'c in frustration because the driver wasn't doing what he was clearly indicating. Incidentally we have a number of lady marshallers, guidewomen sounds a bit PC gone mad, doesn't it? Perhaps marshall in the States has a different meaning, Matt Dillon & all that...
The sad truth is that pilots generally don't get any formal training in how to interpret marshalling signals during their initial training and you do get all sorts of weird & wonderful responses to the ICAO approved signals that we use.
You do get some interesting variations in signals, too. Personally I prefer the arms extended to the side, bring the fingertips up to your shoulders instead of the fore-and-aft that ICAO ask for. However, we do make our staff give the proper ICAO signals, though they are less distinct at night, even with our high-tech wands, in my personal view. One of our guys, once he'd made eye contact with the pilot, used to tap his nose with a finger, then point to the ground between his feet, leaving the pilot to get there as best he could. (Not any more, of course!)
I've seen UK forces using dayglo gloves instead of bats, very effective.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
Absolutely spot on! Exactly why it can't mean follow the line.
One of our marshallers (guidemen, I like that!) once threw his marshallling bats at the cockpit of an a'c in frustration because the driver wasn't doing what he was clearly indicating. Incidentally we have a number of lady marshallers, guidewomen sounds a bit PC gone mad, doesn't it? Perhaps marshall in the States has a different meaning, Matt Dillon & all that...
The sad truth is that pilots generally don't get any formal training in how to interpret marshalling signals during their initial training and you do get all sorts of weird & wonderful responses to the ICAO approved signals that we use.
You do get some interesting variations in signals, too. Personally I prefer the arms extended to the side, bring the fingertips up to your shoulders instead of the fore-and-aft that ICAO ask for. However, we do make our staff give the proper ICAO signals, though they are less distinct at night, even with our high-tech wands, in my personal view. One of our guys, once he'd made eye contact with the pilot, used to tap his nose with a finger, then point to the ground between his feet, leaving the pilot to get there as best he could. (Not any more, of course!)
I've seen UK forces using dayglo gloves instead of bats, very effective.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
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The sad truth is that pilots generally don't get any formal training in how to interpret marshalling signals during their initial training
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Just to add, as it has already been correctly defined........it means continue straight ahead, whatever your position in relation to the marshaller. I add this because I once experienced a (not very popular) training captain who insisted it meant 'come to me'! Where he got this from I don't know. When I challenged him as he kept turning towards the marshaller he informed me of my lack of knowledge of the marshalling signals and continued his incorrect action. Having checked for obstacles to make sure he wasn't going to hit anything my side I again tried to point out why the marshaller was asking him to go straight ahead (ie desist with his right turn) to no avail. We ended up with the nose wheel on the yellow line, the right main gear to the right of the yellow line and, you guessed it, the left main gear to the right of the yellow line too! The german marshaller (it was Koln) chucked his batons in his car, threw his hands in the air and drove off with his wheels spinning.......the training captain then proceded to announce how crap the marshaller was at his job too!
It should be noted that in many parts of the world the marshallers seem unaware of the signals and what they mean. We regularly experience marshallers who just keep giving the straight ahead signal when what they actually want you to do IS to follow the yellow line onto stand. It seems that only experience and knowledge of where these particular types exist is the only way to tell if they actually want you to follow ICAO standards or not.................!!
PP
It should be noted that in many parts of the world the marshallers seem unaware of the signals and what they mean. We regularly experience marshallers who just keep giving the straight ahead signal when what they actually want you to do IS to follow the yellow line onto stand. It seems that only experience and knowledge of where these particular types exist is the only way to tell if they actually want you to follow ICAO standards or not.................!!
PP
The Cooler King
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I saw a Falcon being marshalled in at Bron a few weeks back with the marshaller at 90 degrees to the aircraft. The pilot followed that track until the marshaller signalled to taxy to the right, so I can only assume, and having read the ATPL notes on the subject that it means move forward from your present position and nothing other than that.
