CRM vs SOP
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CRM vs SOP
I am an amateur but I am fascinated by the principles of CRM. Yesterday I was talking to a C-130 FO (his background includes time on the F-4E so he is used to a let's say multi-crew aircraft).
He said that if you follow SOP's CRM becomes less important? It seems rational since you can incorporate communication in the SOP's.
Then again I feel CRM is more than communication and SOP can not cover everything thus CRM my help you in such a case (my second thoughts).
What do you think in the question CRM and SOP? Which areas they complete each other, which areas one take precedence (sp?)?
Many thanks for your time and answers!
He said that if you follow SOP's CRM becomes less important? It seems rational since you can incorporate communication in the SOP's.
Then again I feel CRM is more than communication and SOP can not cover everything thus CRM my help you in such a case (my second thoughts).
What do you think in the question CRM and SOP? Which areas they complete each other, which areas one take precedence (sp?)?
Many thanks for your time and answers!
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Although you do state your fascination and lack of experience, I have to say that I believe the title of the thread shows a basic flaw in your understanding.
CRM Vs SOP ("versus" is defined as against).
Crew resource management is not something that acts or operates against Standard operating procedures. They are two different subjects that have a degree of overlap. Where they do overlap or indeed in the application of either, the intention is to provide for the safest and most efficient operation that can best be achieved for a given situation.
Standard operating procedures lay down the procedures to be followed for all normal operations. They establish the sequence of activities for each crewmember and designate the crewmember who will normally carry them out. In other words they co-ordinate the crewmembers individual actions into a team effort. Having said this Captains do have the authority to vary these procedures if they believe it is warranted and when unusual situations require that variance.
These procedures are a large part of a pilots operating armoury, but they are certainly not the be all and end all. Many situations can develop that fall outside the definition of "standard operation", and these need addressing often with equal or greater imperative than those events that fall into either the category of "routine" or "emergency procedure". Often it may be because of a complex of more than one situation or event or occurence. Even at its most basic level any professional pilot with more than a few months experience will tell you that SOP's do not cover every routine situation. They are a framework of best standard practice that should normally and routinely be operated within. They are not a cage to be absolutely bound by.
Crew resource Management is more about dealing with the human situation within the flightdeck and cabin. You will not find it mentioned in any checklists or QRH handbooks. It is about the interaction of the crewmembers such that each individuals strength and weakness can best be adapted into any normal, emergency or extraordinary situation to achieve the safest and most efficient operation. There are plenty of threads on this forum on this subject, so I will defer from going into any greater depth. However CRM at its best application will enable a crew to operate as a team by understanding and application of those things that are sometimes difficult to define. An understanding of individual personality traits. Communication skills at differing levels. Trust /respect/honesty. Application of an individuals strengths to a given situation or set of circumstances. These are just a few of the things that consitute crew resource and the management thereof. Worth also pointing out that CRM doesn't stop at the flight deck door.
With respect to your friend, he is quite wrong if he suggested that "if you follow SOP's, CRM becomes less important". I think it is more likely that was how you interpreted his comment. Certainly in any normal flight conducted within SOP's as indeed most are, CRM in its proper application is less noticable. Many people translate CRM into a different word "airmanship". In either case its application is always important....always !
In summary, I believe that CRM is vital in the ability to operate as the most effective part of a team. In the case of a crewmember its effective application should enhance the safety and efficiency of the flight and make for a comfortable and well managed working environment. In extraordinary situations it resources a team of people who have some understanding of each other and a respect for individual strengths as part of a team effort.
SOP's are a tool. They should always be used for normal and defined situations as they enable each crewmember to operate to a known, established and practiced set of operating procedures. They are not the 10 commandments, nor do they cover every eventuality. As such they will on occaisions ( albeit rarely) be subject to the captains variation.
Therefore I do not believe they compete with each other at all . Indeed they ought to complement each other if anything. Which one should take precedence is also fairly redundant. If you have poor CRM skills but know your Standard operating procedures (which is taken as a basic requirement in any event ) You are not likely to be a great strength within the team as either manager or team player.
CRM Vs SOP ("versus" is defined as against).
Crew resource management is not something that acts or operates against Standard operating procedures. They are two different subjects that have a degree of overlap. Where they do overlap or indeed in the application of either, the intention is to provide for the safest and most efficient operation that can best be achieved for a given situation.
Standard operating procedures lay down the procedures to be followed for all normal operations. They establish the sequence of activities for each crewmember and designate the crewmember who will normally carry them out. In other words they co-ordinate the crewmembers individual actions into a team effort. Having said this Captains do have the authority to vary these procedures if they believe it is warranted and when unusual situations require that variance.
These procedures are a large part of a pilots operating armoury, but they are certainly not the be all and end all. Many situations can develop that fall outside the definition of "standard operation", and these need addressing often with equal or greater imperative than those events that fall into either the category of "routine" or "emergency procedure". Often it may be because of a complex of more than one situation or event or occurence. Even at its most basic level any professional pilot with more than a few months experience will tell you that SOP's do not cover every routine situation. They are a framework of best standard practice that should normally and routinely be operated within. They are not a cage to be absolutely bound by.
Crew resource Management is more about dealing with the human situation within the flightdeck and cabin. You will not find it mentioned in any checklists or QRH handbooks. It is about the interaction of the crewmembers such that each individuals strength and weakness can best be adapted into any normal, emergency or extraordinary situation to achieve the safest and most efficient operation. There are plenty of threads on this forum on this subject, so I will defer from going into any greater depth. However CRM at its best application will enable a crew to operate as a team by understanding and application of those things that are sometimes difficult to define. An understanding of individual personality traits. Communication skills at differing levels. Trust /respect/honesty. Application of an individuals strengths to a given situation or set of circumstances. These are just a few of the things that consitute crew resource and the management thereof. Worth also pointing out that CRM doesn't stop at the flight deck door.
With respect to your friend, he is quite wrong if he suggested that "if you follow SOP's, CRM becomes less important". I think it is more likely that was how you interpreted his comment. Certainly in any normal flight conducted within SOP's as indeed most are, CRM in its proper application is less noticable. Many people translate CRM into a different word "airmanship". In either case its application is always important....always !
In summary, I believe that CRM is vital in the ability to operate as the most effective part of a team. In the case of a crewmember its effective application should enhance the safety and efficiency of the flight and make for a comfortable and well managed working environment. In extraordinary situations it resources a team of people who have some understanding of each other and a respect for individual strengths as part of a team effort.
SOP's are a tool. They should always be used for normal and defined situations as they enable each crewmember to operate to a known, established and practiced set of operating procedures. They are not the 10 commandments, nor do they cover every eventuality. As such they will on occaisions ( albeit rarely) be subject to the captains variation.
Therefore I do not believe they compete with each other at all . Indeed they ought to complement each other if anything. Which one should take precedence is also fairly redundant. If you have poor CRM skills but know your Standard operating procedures (which is taken as a basic requirement in any event ) You are not likely to be a great strength within the team as either manager or team player.
Last edited by Bealzebub; 10th Oct 2004 at 01:37.
Thread Starter
Bealzebub
The title came after the conversation with my friend and the impression he gave me that I got that SOP's could cover everything. He mentionned that if you are at the minima you don't have the runway in sight you do around - no need for the PACE routine... his words.
Thanks for breaking my illusion about all including SOP's.
Rwy in Sight
The title came after the conversation with my friend and the impression he gave me that I got that SOP's could cover everything. He mentionned that if you are at the minima you don't have the runway in sight you do around - no need for the PACE routine... his words.
Thanks for breaking my illusion about all including SOP's.
Rwy in Sight
Rw in Sight
Quite. An SOP situation like that rarely, if ever, requires the application of CRM. Bealzebub has explained the thing more fully than I intend to, but will it help if I say that CRM is what you use in non-SOP situations?
For example, due to bad forecasting you arrive at your alternate to find the minima below limits (real example). No fuel to go anywhere else -NOW you need CRM, PACE and all the rest of it.
He mentionned that if you are at the minima you don't have the runway in sight you do around - no need for the PACE routine
For example, due to bad forecasting you arrive at your alternate to find the minima below limits (real example). No fuel to go anywhere else -NOW you need CRM, PACE and all the rest of it.
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I have just completed my MCC course. I would venture an opinion the SOP's are the first building block of CRM.
Our MCC instructor started out as an FO on the 707 with BOAC. On his first day on line he arrived at the aircraft with another FO and a Captain. Both had been with company for over 10 years but had never flown together before. What enabled them to fly together safely and efficiently was the SOP's.
CRM is essentially about teamwork, and what the SOP's give you is a starting point for what jobs each member of the team should be carrying out. CRM builds on that starting point.
The proof as they say is in the pudding. We had 5 sim sessions on my MCC course. We flew the first four with the same 'partner', alternating between PF and PNF. On the last day we swapped partners and flew the most complex detail of the course with someone we had not flown with before. And we could do that because by then we were fully au fait with the SOP's.
Remember CRM does not start and end in the cockpit. Don't forget the cabin crew and all those who help you on the ground, and of course ATC.
Our MCC instructor started out as an FO on the 707 with BOAC. On his first day on line he arrived at the aircraft with another FO and a Captain. Both had been with company for over 10 years but had never flown together before. What enabled them to fly together safely and efficiently was the SOP's.
CRM is essentially about teamwork, and what the SOP's give you is a starting point for what jobs each member of the team should be carrying out. CRM builds on that starting point.
The proof as they say is in the pudding. We had 5 sim sessions on my MCC course. We flew the first four with the same 'partner', alternating between PF and PNF. On the last day we swapped partners and flew the most complex detail of the course with someone we had not flown with before. And we could do that because by then we were fully au fait with the SOP's.
Remember CRM does not start and end in the cockpit. Don't forget the cabin crew and all those who help you on the ground, and of course ATC.
Bealzebub has written one of the best descriptions of CRM and SOPs I have seen. SOPs used to be thought of as a separate subject before the advent on the modern CRM. Now days it is sensible to use CRM to enhance the application of SOPs and CRM is most important when the SOPs run out.
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A good CRM course that addresses Human error management and the problems of harzardous attitudes on descision making, should improve the likelyhood that the crew will follow SOP's in the first place.
I think this is one of the more important aspects of CRM. That is WHY we should follow the rules and SOP's, and what things to keep in mind in situations outside the SOP's.
So following the SOP's is actually a part of good CRM.
I think this is one of the more important aspects of CRM. That is WHY we should follow the rules and SOP's, and what things to keep in mind in situations outside the SOP's.
So following the SOP's is actually a part of good CRM.
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SOPs serve to establish a minimum of communication between crew members, and provide a basic outline of how to operate the equipment. It is a foundation. CRM builds further on this, and involves culture, leadership, psychology etc; things that are hard/impossible to describe in SOPs.
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Bealzebub
Excellent wordage that manages to cut through a lot of the misunderstanding that exists out there. Any objection of a little plagerism in the interests of Flight safety?
Cheers
Excellent wordage that manages to cut through a lot of the misunderstanding that exists out there. Any objection of a little plagerism in the interests of Flight safety?
Cheers
