Miserable Pilots
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Miserable Pilots
Now I know it takes two to tango, as they say, and that it takes all sorts but how do we deal with "miserable pilots"?
I am not talking about the ones who grouse about the company and/or the management but those that seem to show little reaction to anything or when they do react only do so in a negative or miserable manner.
These individuals may be technically very able and competent and whilst I agree there is an optimum amount of "chat" especially on the long sectors, I do feel that there is a minority with whom it is impossible to feel any rapport with - does this not pose a potential flight safety issue?
I am, quite franky, thinking of one individual who never seems to smile or laugh at anything and I really wonder how it would be to be this persons copilot, especially for a few days!
I am not talking about the ones who grouse about the company and/or the management but those that seem to show little reaction to anything or when they do react only do so in a negative or miserable manner.
These individuals may be technically very able and competent and whilst I agree there is an optimum amount of "chat" especially on the long sectors, I do feel that there is a minority with whom it is impossible to feel any rapport with - does this not pose a potential flight safety issue?
I am, quite franky, thinking of one individual who never seems to smile or laugh at anything and I really wonder how it would be to be this persons copilot, especially for a few days!
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I can recall one in particular.
Altho I never operated with him (we were both Captains), and served in three companies together.
He was fired from all three, simply because he just could not get along...with anyone, it seemed.
He returned to the UK where he flew light turboprops for awhile, where i'm sure he was not liked either.
Born under a dark cloud perhaps?
Altho I never operated with him (we were both Captains), and served in three companies together.
He was fired from all three, simply because he just could not get along...with anyone, it seemed.
He returned to the UK where he flew light turboprops for awhile, where i'm sure he was not liked either.
Born under a dark cloud perhaps?
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Where is it said that you have to laugh and smile just because everyone else is? maybe he's perfectly happy inside himself and doesn't need other people? I meet people like this all the time - doesn't bother me
Phil
Phil
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There's miserable buggers in every walk of life. If the level of conversation or interaction is not sufficiently stimulating on the long sectors, take a good book (or reset box 2 to the BBC World Service).
As to posing a flight safety risk, those who continually grouse and whinge can be as much of a hazard as those who never open their gobs.
As to posing a flight safety risk, those who continually grouse and whinge can be as much of a hazard as those who never open their gobs.
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Yes, Big Tudor, there's miserable buggers in every walk of life, but sometimes you find on the opposire side of the coin, jocular people where you least expect it. I've met funeral directors who were real party starters, and even an executioner with a funny story for every occasion. I couldn't get away from him fast enough, he made my skin crawl. He could never work out why people didn't like him. (You meet some strange people in this business).
On the topic of quiet pilots, I once did a 2 hours each way flight with a known silent type, solid as a rock, good operator, but incapable of conversation. On the way out I commented, "Jeeez, look at that huge bush fire out there". He nodded. 2 hours or so later, on the way back, he broke silence - "The fire's going out". Truly the strong silent type. I'd prefer him a million times over others who might have a single gripe to make, a pox on the whiners!
On the topic of quiet pilots, I once did a 2 hours each way flight with a known silent type, solid as a rock, good operator, but incapable of conversation. On the way out I commented, "Jeeez, look at that huge bush fire out there". He nodded. 2 hours or so later, on the way back, he broke silence - "The fire's going out". Truly the strong silent type. I'd prefer him a million times over others who might have a single gripe to make, a pox on the whiners!
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Captain has to set the tone of the cockpit
One of the major roles of a Captain of a multi-crew operation is to "set the tone" - and the best way he can do that is in the flight planning area, when he first meets his crew. He must encourage participation in the entire flight process. If he is normally a miserable downbeat so and so then he probably should not be on duty, and needs to talk to a professional. Depression is a mounting factor in pilot medical issues - huge number I heard in a professional briefing last month. To be dour and non-communicative will discourage others from speaking up on anything, perhaps to their detriment - plenty of accidents on record where the crew atmosphere was a factor. This doesn't mean you have to be on some sort of manic high with a motor mouth - just set a quiet professional tone and openly state your goals for the operation. Let your fellow pilots know that you value their opinions. If you don't want too much BS'ing - let them know that up front too. i..e save the bitching and moaning for the bar. Upbeat converstaions only in the cockpit!
It's up to Mr. P1 - if he/she has the communication skills of a dog turd, that will roll over to the rest of the crew - and then you are in big trouble.
It's up to Mr. P1 - if he/she has the communication skills of a dog turd, that will roll over to the rest of the crew - and then you are in big trouble.
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Does this person follows SOP's, assert their authority whilst maintaing an open and diplomatic enviroenment? Do they inspire team work and treat others with professional dignity and respect?
If 'yes' is the answer to the above then sharing the same sense of humour, cracking funnies, being Mr Smiley and popular are less important.
I have had bosses who I have never seen laugh, tell a joke and rarely smile but I have still had the upmost respect and confidence in their ability and on this basis would definitely work with them again.
If 'yes' is the answer to the above then sharing the same sense of humour, cracking funnies, being Mr Smiley and popular are less important.
I have had bosses who I have never seen laugh, tell a joke and rarely smile but I have still had the upmost respect and confidence in their ability and on this basis would definitely work with them again.
at the behest of starting an argument, But just because this person doesnt talk alot or smile does not make him miserable. Important points allready summed up.
SOP,
Good Operational Communication,
Team leadership, etc.
Might be worth remembering before cracking a funny joke that he might not find it amusing.
Example: My Father passed away last year and enroute back to my home an acquaintance of mine (who I think is a D@@K) cracks "who let you back into the country then". I'll leave the rest up to your imagination.
Regards.
SOP,
Good Operational Communication,
Team leadership, etc.
Might be worth remembering before cracking a funny joke that he might not find it amusing.
Example: My Father passed away last year and enroute back to my home an acquaintance of mine (who I think is a D@@K) cracks "who let you back into the country then". I'll leave the rest up to your imagination.
Regards.
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if you really get bored and its quiet, we always like a bit of banter in the ATC centers (Scottish anyway). Your not going to get it everytime or when its busy but try. It may be little more than a Hockey score (go lightninig) or an update to whats going on but if I are able I will.
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Second Officer Silence(SOS)
Having a beer with a group of the lads in LAX awhile ago and a Captain made a comment that he hadn`t spoken to an S/O for 8 sectors.A few thought he was joking..he wasn`t and was proud of his achievement
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I think they're everywhere...and every walk of life has it's fair share of miserable gits to be honest.
You have only to browse thru some of the posting especially those around the various airlines out there and in particular Britain's favourite airline and you'll see loads of them ranting on ..
Infact my BF whos along haul pilot for the very same airline is a prime candidate today..better be careful what I say as he posts here! You know I love you really hunni!!
x
You have only to browse thru some of the posting especially those around the various airlines out there and in particular Britain's favourite airline and you'll see loads of them ranting on ..
Infact my BF whos along haul pilot for the very same airline is a prime candidate today..better be careful what I say as he posts here! You know I love you really hunni!!
x
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Oilhead, excellent post and just what I needed to read after my last couple of flights. On the whole the Captains I fly with are superb, and smashing chaps to boot but there are the odd exceptions.
Last flight for instance I did the flight planning while cpt read his newspaper and conversed with everyone in preflight except for myself.
For the entirety of the flight all my attempts to start conversation were shot dead with curt one word replies or simply ignored. His body language was hostile and he only addressed me directly to tear appart my approach brief. I won't reapeat the tirade I received on the ground for fear of sounding like I'm having a whinge but I really felt this brings rise to some serious safety issues.
At no point on this sector did I feel we were a team, or more importantly COULD work as a team should we have a problem.
Most situations would require open and frank discussion between both pilots to diagnose the problem, formate and then action a plan. This certainly wouldn't have happened on my flight and the problem was only compounded by his perceived authority gradient.
From a personal point of view it left me feeling angry and somewhat humiliated, not emotions that are at home in a flight deck and certainly don't enable you to carry out your job with confidence and alacrity. I shrugged it off, stapled a smile to my face and got on with it because you have no choice, but inside I wanted to throttle him.
With the number of CRM courses Captain Bastard must have taken it is breathtaking to find such blatant disregard their principles....in a modern airline.
Last flight for instance I did the flight planning while cpt read his newspaper and conversed with everyone in preflight except for myself.
For the entirety of the flight all my attempts to start conversation were shot dead with curt one word replies or simply ignored. His body language was hostile and he only addressed me directly to tear appart my approach brief. I won't reapeat the tirade I received on the ground for fear of sounding like I'm having a whinge but I really felt this brings rise to some serious safety issues.
At no point on this sector did I feel we were a team, or more importantly COULD work as a team should we have a problem.
Most situations would require open and frank discussion between both pilots to diagnose the problem, formate and then action a plan. This certainly wouldn't have happened on my flight and the problem was only compounded by his perceived authority gradient.
From a personal point of view it left me feeling angry and somewhat humiliated, not emotions that are at home in a flight deck and certainly don't enable you to carry out your job with confidence and alacrity. I shrugged it off, stapled a smile to my face and got on with it because you have no choice, but inside I wanted to throttle him.
With the number of CRM courses Captain Bastard must have taken it is breathtaking to find such blatant disregard their principles....in a modern airline.
Grandpa Aerotart
arresterhook with a loser like that in the LHS you would not need to worry about input during an abnormal...idiots like him are almost always 'one man bands' when things go pear shaped....you'd have become a passenger at worst or a radio operator at best.
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Hey Arrestahook,
Sounds familiar. I also fly every now and then with captains who show the same behaviour.
Their problem is mostly lack of authority, poor flying skills (they don`t want you to fly better than they do), depressed or stupidity
The funny thing is that at the CRM courses the very often pretend that they know it all.
Sounds familiar. I also fly every now and then with captains who show the same behaviour.
Their problem is mostly lack of authority, poor flying skills (they don`t want you to fly better than they do), depressed or stupidity
The funny thing is that at the CRM courses the very often pretend that they know it all.
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The worst case scenario of personality clash between pilots has to be the Korean Air 2033 incident.
Landing in the rain, the copilot wanted to go-around. The pilot said no. The copilot advanced throttle anyway, then the pilot started swearing and for a moment they were actually fighting over the throttle levers.
The plane ended up touching down, sliding off the runway and was completely destroyed. By amazing good luck, everyone on board survived.
As a pax, I sure as hell want the guys up front to be a 100% operational team.
Landing in the rain, the copilot wanted to go-around. The pilot said no. The copilot advanced throttle anyway, then the pilot started swearing and for a moment they were actually fighting over the throttle levers.
The plane ended up touching down, sliding off the runway and was completely destroyed. By amazing good luck, everyone on board survived.
As a pax, I sure as hell want the guys up front to be a 100% operational team.
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Alasken Timber. Right on old chum - which is why many pilots privately consider that CRM is a hugely blown up very expensive cottage industry that fails to get through to the idiots it is supposed to convert. Of course, few will state this openly because of the mores of political correctness. But it's true, ain't it?
Replace the term CRM with the words "Good manners, good airmanship, and commonsense" because that is all it really is.
Replace the term CRM with the words "Good manners, good airmanship, and commonsense" because that is all it really is.
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Replace the term CRM with the words "Good manners, good airmanship, and commonsense" because that is all it really is.
CRM is about far more. It is about communication (which includes ENABLING others to speak out without fear and LISTENING). It is about encouraging others to THINK. It is about knowing where your limitations (and those of others) begin and end, therefore considerable self-knowledge. It is about ensuring others are always in the loop (good airmanship is all very well, unless you are doing it all on your own).
I could go on for a long time. But you will be pleased to hear that I won't.