just in - just in - just in - just in
 

back to the topic please
just confirmed two more BHD one-four-six effo's resigned and are leaving destination Orange (their base will be rotated the next few weeks at random however)

When he says the fleet acquisition plans stretch to 2005, I thought he ment 20th of May. I just wasn't sure which year? :D

For FlyBE read CitiExpress.

Just give it time!!:eek:

a very 2002 way of doing things
 

quote:
"The way it is supposed to work, is that each Base Captain is invited to attend the Kickstart, and they then cascade the information down to the pilots and cabin crew at their base. It is actually a very 2002 way of doing things, but it relies on managers (ie base captains etc), to cascade the information."

well. to me, it more looks like a very 1950 way of doing things
we have the internet these days, you know, and a proper intranet accessible from home (or the South China Sea internet café) with up to date info is a 2002 way of doing things if you ask me, including rosters and proper 2-way communication

Commiserations to all of You CitiExpress guys and girls!

If anybody finds the switch of the tumble dryer down south, don’t hesitate to switch it off!
I order to see light at the end of the tunnel, not only need we switch on the light, but install the damn switch first!
:D :D :D

Ace Rimmer

I reckon you need to get a grip on reality... haven't laughed so much for years...!!! :cool:

Wrong...

oic

In pure money terms, maybe. I'd miss the variety of all the Cat C places we go though, and I'm not interested in flying my backside off. I prefer to see my wife grow old, and my kids grow up. For me, it isn't primarily about money. I'm quite possibly fairly unusual in that regard.

Also, I was a line trainer within 7 months of joining JEA as it was then- I very much doubt that would happen with Easy, too many people now for that to be likely. If I stay with Flybe, after 8-10 years service I can expect to be a senior IRE/TRE or whatever its called now, not a LTC. The money wouldn't be that different.

Smokie

You didn't actually answer the question (not that I expected you to), but, seriously old chap, you need to leave... you obviously hate it here. I have no idea why you stay (well, perhaps a small idea...)

puddle-jumper

Your reasoning is a stretch... however, there are plenty of experienced people out there who would be more than happy to join us. Don't take my word for it, ask Don how many CVs are currently in the pile. If we don't gain or lose money either way, and the person concerned needs a new type rating, the only experience they bring to the table is general flying experience. Valuable, yes, but there are many others who have that, who are looking for jobs (at the moment).

BTW calculating costs on the basis of salary alone is misleading as it doesn't take into account pensions and other social costs.

And of course you have seen the plan... well, pity you weren't at the kickstart... :rolleyes:

Nav Armed

More chance of flybe buying Air France than that happening...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What ever turns You on ???
 

RD,
As soon as mine hits 40yrs, I'll trade her in for two 20yr olds:D

RD,

It's the type experience I was referring to. The amount of recent 146 rated pilots to choose from outside of this company is declining. Don might have allot of C.V.'s from experienced pilots but how many know the 146 well. Encouraging pilots, with years of experience on type, to leave only to replace them with pilots of no type experience in 6 months time for little financial gain doesn't make sense to me. Then again as I was working during the last Kick-butt meeting so I guess I don't have the big picture.:D

future fleet plans
 

RD, would you be so kind to enlighten us about these far stretching company fleet development plans?

Raw Data!!

I think you misunderstood me.
Mass exodus was my point.:confused:

Looks like the majority are singing from the same song sheet here, with the very odd exception ! ;)

Sensible Garage

That only works if everybody has a PC. However, it is exactly what we are working towards, much of this information is already on the Intranet, and the recent NOTAC regarding email addresses should give you a clear hint as to where we are going.

Regardless of all that, Base Captains are intended to be more than amenders of manuals and orderers of fax paper. We are supposed to be managers- it is intended to progressively widen the role of the Base Captain.

Some would argue that the appropriate way of briefing staff is in person. I agree with that, which is why I rode a lot of jumpseats explaining Kickstart to various crews after the meeting.

2 BE or not 2 BE

I tried that, but she has quite a left hook... ;)

puddle-jumper

I hear what you are saying, however most of the pilots who are leaving are relatively new to type (ie a year or so). As in all things, it's a trade-off. I'm not sure there is a simple, 100% correct answer.

Sensible Garage

Happy to, but not on a public forum... :rolleyes:

Nav Armed

No, I understood you (more or less). My response caters for both interpretations... :D :D

Let them leave... let them all leave.

It opens up fantastic opportunities for those like me who want to stay.

I can't think of many places where I could get a jet command in so short a time. RD is spot-on, stay and you progress a whole lot quicker.

At the end of the day I'd rather be a known individual, a name to the management down in EXT rather than a staff number in Heathrow, Castle Donn or Luton.

That's actually a very good point- we do have a very fair and equitable culture in the company. One of the weaknesses of the Easy approach to its staff is that it is much more open to abuse.

It is also worth noting that the future plan for the airline does not include rolling over and playing dead while the lo-cos take all our pax.

Strolling through the terminal in EDI last night, I was struck by the way Ezy pax all line up at the gate 20 mins before it opens, all getting ready for the mad dash to get the best seats. I must admit that I have a lot of time for the current BA advertising- I have a feeling that the love affair with no-frills might be starting to wear off- and when it does, we stand to do very well indeed.

Raw Data wrote




thought you lot WERE a low cost airline these days ?

Back to the future
 

It was a looong time since BE threads did not appear in public forums ... it took me "back" to few years ago now, sad to see things haven't either changed or improved :( Same things ... different years :rolleyes:
Regards to all my ex collegues, who must say, made my time there one of the most enjoyable flying experiences of my life http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/acclaim.gif
Ciao :D

Raw Data:
I base my assertion on the following:
FlyBE's announcement that it will base it fleet on D8s and 146's (ie bye bye CRJs) and a conversation with a person who is in a position to influence the course of the company.

Tip off that as mentioned earlier big Jim and co are in discussions with Bomb about trading in the CRJs for more Q400s since confirmed through another source BTW

JE Engineering is pretty focused on being a quadrapuff and D8 centre

According to the latest data I have BE has 12 D8s and 15 puffs if a deal is done on the CRJs then you could assume they'd be getting more Q4s than CRJs lets be reasonable and say five so that's hmmm 17 D8s and 15 puffs and that's assumeming that more D8s over and above are not aquired by lease or purchase

Net result, it appears reasonable does it not to assume therefore that the airline will have more T/Ps than jets in the future and that further for those flying for the airline there will be more T/P slots than jets?

Dosent seem too big a flight of fancy to me...but there you go my reality might be a little different yours.
:D :eek:

Eastern Wiseguy....

Not true. We've never claimed to be all low cost.

If you read the charter and look at the website you'll see we're aiming for the middle ground. Low fares but service of some sort on all our flights.

Hmmmmm. service of some sort ! Well yes if you are on an
Air France flight its excellent but then Air France are paying for it.

I hardly think that a cup of tea or coffee qualifies as a "Service" do you ? Seems pretty low cost to me.

Before anyone mentions the "Business pax" well their corporate departments are paying for it also.

Thought the latest strategy was to bin most of the Business fares except for a few choice routes and concentrate on the "Lower fares" for Joe public.

This appears to be doing quite well, now that we've been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st centuary, with the on line web site up and running.

If the D8-400 is to be a success then we really need another C/A to make the cabin more efficient, don't we ?

To whom it may concern
 

Well I guess the reason why some of the 146 crews aren’t leaving their 146 is that the 146 is like their Misses.

She antique, slow, a bit short for her width, leaks in different places and making a hell of a noise in the process.
Is tech when you wanna do it, needs lots booze to keep her going and you can’t take her everywhere you want to go to.

But you can’t F*#%*NG leave her!!!:D :D :D

Ace Rimmer

Correct (more or less).

Incorrect. Not even close.

No... sorry. That isn't what is happening at all.

That assumption is based on incorrect information, and is wrong.

Well, the difference there is that my reality is based on the facts, and yours is based on assumptions and second-hand info from dubious sources.

Nice try though... :D

Smokie

What do we provide as "service" that lo-cos don't? Well, for a start they get to select a seat (rather than join the scrum at the gate), they get basic drinks for free (nothing is free on lo-cos), they get access to special passenger handling at no cost (what does Ryanair charge for a wheelchair lift-off..???), they get access to customer service that consists of more than one person reading from their only "service" from a card: "nothing is our fault, you aren't entitled to anything, read the fine print"... etc. We also have lounges for those who want them, the ability to provide free drinks via a voucher, etc.

I see Flybe is still being managed in the very same way as ever, -the out of touch,smug down shifters from the far end of the M5 will never make a go of FlyBe and it is time the trustees blew away the whole managment team from cabin services right upto and including the CEO.

This whole thread is almost a repeat of the City Express saga that I was reading about in Pprune a few weeks back. But for J41 insert DHC-8 !!!
The two Companies seem to have a lot in common.

except citiexpress get paid 56k plus flt pay for drivin 146s and pencils.

???RD???
 

RD You seem to have your head buried very deep in a beach on some desrt island!!!

You're saying you'd prefer to get paid 14000 less plus all that sector pay to fly a jurassic jet on short sectors, and get no/very little feedback from management???!!!

Maybe you're just bitter as you "declined an offer of employment from easyJet"???

I may be mad but I'm sure flying a 737 throughout Europe with very few nightstops and much more money is much better for your family and career?

Ohbehave...

What you mean you can't take the puff everywhere..give us 1300m of tarmac,mate.

Makes a hell of alot of noise.............only when the flaps go down !


puddlejumper..
146 rated crews from BMC, one year on about 25 of the 60 odd have jobs so still plenty of ratings to go around...

If me Julie looked like a one four six, I wouldn’t take her to the pub with me!
Which is a bad idea anyway. ;)

Noise? Sorry can’t hear what you’re saying, the flaps just went UP again.
BTW those leaking door seals aren’t helping either. (ask your cabin crew).

Raw Data,
If you're stayin in Flybe, you might want to take your cv off webwings.co.nz. :D :D :D :D

RD,

You may thing that FlyBe is a much better place than easyJet. I have been in both(146), and I make £1000 more every month, for 40 sectors/70hrs, 2 nightstop. We're not using any Cat C airport at the moment but ABZ, INV and even LTN are sort of shortfield for the the 737. Nice (NCE) is always an exciting approach to fly. Please, the easy network is not fantastic but don't tell me that the FlyBe network is much better.
I don't want to criticize a former employer here, but I think you're not in position to criticize the working condition of an airline you never fly with. There is lot of details (roster, training, maintenance, 737NG, people, ...) about easyJet you are missing.
In my opinion, FlyBe was not a bad place, but easyjet is better.
Regards

RD,

Looks like you're gettin longdicked here matey, surely you can't be the only one that's right ?

Oh ! and by the way, we have another one on early release to the big "O" starts end of Jan, handed in their notice a couple of days ago aswell ! Not to mention the Birmingham 7 !!!
( Now where have I heard that before)

Just a thought , I notice none of our newly painted have
"Be.Special " on them yet, can't think why !


Whisperbrick,

You mean to say that you've not had the 1199 privilege yet ?:D


Jacksman,

Like your style mate.


So off 't Pub fur last orders to reflect on all the carnage .....

YES, THERE'S GOING TO BE CARNAGE MATEY !! :eek: :eek:

Lay off me 146!!!!
 

Oh Behave!

Hey up lad! Lay off me beloved 146. It's a reet good first jet, and as I said on t'previous forum that were scrubbed, it's not about what you fly, it's all about where you fly into. By eck, yon moderator chap needs to lighten up a bit and let folks express themselves. Only time I went to a kickstart meeting, when I was there, the chief pilots size nine imprint was on me backside for weeks afterwards!
Before anyone says anything, I think 0-5 away to Villa was quite acceptable!

Jacksman

Well, you may think that going from deep in the crapper to break-even, in a year when many other carriers have either gone to the wall, or at the very least shed a bunch of pilots and aircraft, is bad management. I disagree. The fact is, that if our management were anything less than very good indeed, we would all be unemployed by now. I think you need to get out more.

carlos vandango

Somebody emailed me anonymously and objected to your statement. I have no idea why. Anyway, they claim that "BA CitiExpress pilots don't get any thing like 56k 'for drivin 146's & pencils' without 10 years of service at any rate. Try base jet pay of £49905 + £1 hr flt pay."

So there you go...

DIAMOND2000

Actually I get a lot of feedback from management. I guess I have become adept at using a telephone keypad.

I think the point you need to take on board, is that I did the declining. And for good reason- at the time, Easy crews were doing a lot of night-stopping and generally working their butts off. No thanks.

How do I know this? I know 7 pilots who work for them. It gives me a good picture.

Actually the money is virtually the same, as I have three "extra" jobs with Flybe (ie training and some other stuff). If I went in as an F/O (which apparently you have to now if you have been tainted by the evil 146), I would take a major pay cut. No thanks.

dik dastardly

Gee, you must think you are really clever, however the very fact that it is there should tell you it isn't a secret... doh! :rolleyes: Nice of you to try though, I only hope I can do the same for you one day.

acm

Actually, no, I don't think that at all. I went through the process with them and was offered a job. I declined. It is perfect for some, not for others. I prefer the stability of knowing my base is secure, flying into the fun airports I mentioned, and being involved in training and other "extra-curricular" activities with flybe that I wouldn't have the opportunity to do in Easyjet.


Not really. As mentioned above, I know a few people in Easy and got a pretty clear picture about how the airline works in practice. It's not for me- if you enjoy it, well, great.

Fine. My roster has about 50 hours on it this month. Money similar if you factor the duty pay for less hours. Whatever.

Raw Data...gee doesn't take much to rattle your cage. Still at least you're consistent.:rolleyes:

Ah Carlos ! and I thought the complaint would have been about EZYs New "Large Flight Deck" sim !..... Never mind .

As for drawing straws, well apparently if you can pull off a negatively, vertically, parallel track towards a nav aid of the examiners choice, then you also get another free go at the ILS !

The mind really does boggle though considering the very,very, high quality of candidates that were Royaly Shafted last summer in the "Orange Box" that supposedly represented a "SIM" down at CTC.

I wonder if the EZY management will be sent Xmas prezzies this year ?
Yep ! there's going to be Carnage Matey, and not just at FlyBe.xxxxxx. !!

Raw Data:

As a good journo I can't of course reveal my sources :D

But (and here's the thing) If you are, as your profile suggests a line pilot, then I suspect that my source is better placed to know what's going on in the minds of Fly BE management's than you are. ;)

For Info
 

Just to add my twopenny's worth,
From what i've heard the plan is to dispose of the CRJ's to a foreign operator, in return for this we will get the last 8 Dash8-400's from the production line at Bombardier and from next year the Dash8-300's and 200's will be diposed off leaving us with a fleet off Dash8-400's (12 in total) and 146's. Yes some of the 146's are being disposed of - but these are all the lightweight a/c and we possible might be gaining a additional 146 to to replace one of the one's that are being disposed off.
Personally i enjoy working at flybe i know off several of my collegues from a previous airline that i worked for who now work for the orange mob and they are regretting it and can't wait to move on from there - So perhap's the grass is not greener on the other side - every airline has it's faults and we are NO different.

dik dastardly

I guess you could say I have no time for dik-heads. :rolleyes: :D

Ace Rimmer

Apart from the fact that I actually talk to said management, and you don't, of course... :rolleyes:

Whispering Giant

Well, that's a bit closer to the truth. Except you have under-estimated the final 146 count...

Raw Data
I wouldn't bet on that if I were you

146 Fleet.
 

From the information i've seen - i believe the company are looking at a fleet of between 10-12 146's but this is to be confirmed - so that we would have a equal fleet of 146's and Dash8-400's. But i agree that the company for it's long term development should look at comanly produced a/c type instead of what is being re-ported in one of the magazine's that we are considering the Embraer190-195, nice that these a/c maybe on paper but they will in the long run be more expensive and not as cost effetive as a Boeing or Airbus product...

Whispering Giant & Raw Data!
 

.....I can offer you a couple of Boeing 737-800 (189 config) CAT3a LVP, A Boeing 767-200 (290 Config) CAT1a.
Oh I'm sorry we're a charter company, I totally forgot FlyBE don't do those do they........?! - CMF/SZG etc, etc.
Hey take your pick Guys!;)
What ever the company does as it's main bread & butter, you'll ALWAYS get someone who isn't happy. If it's not roster stability, it's who's sitting next to them!
I would have thought that RD would have a more information than most as he is on the Employee Forum (aren't you?). FlyBE would be great if there weren't so many Empire builders and if EVERYONE sang from the same hymn sheet!
"You can please some of the people some of the time, but never all the people all of the time!"
.....Mind you I left over two years ago! :D :D