Supposed Pilot refuses Security and gets arrested.
 

Usual caveats apply ok.

Video is from June 2023.
Just wondering if anyone knows more about this situation?
Keen to know as (with You Tube), comments, would he be psychologically ok to be a pilot - or was he a real pilot...?

He’s either a Walter Mitty type/mentally unwell or he’s a pilot who’s having a breakdown/mentally unwell. My money is on the former as he’s not acting/talking like a pilot who’s having a bad day.

Also I can’t help but observe at 1:30ish the full, open palmed hand on the guys a$$. An area that had been repeatedly frisked by both hands using the back of the hand.

I understand back of hand and can just about put up with being frisked this way every now and then for ‘security’ but the open handed a$$ grope is not appropriate.

BD

It looks like he was a real pilot who was traveling personally. By tossing on a partial uniform he can travel with liquids. There is mention of someone already in the airport waiting for him. He used the KCM entrance and was picked for a random full inspection that sends you to the normal security. It appears that there he was picked out for some reason for a secondary inspection and he lost it. He mentioned being constantly randomed. TSA hates the KCM program because it was forced down their throats by Congress. Starting about 3 years ago they upped the random rate to pretty absurd levels. They are trying to kill the program.

You know I’m inclined to agree with you Salivi. And now I’m thinking he’ll be taking the police to court and winning - handcuffed and charged with disorderly conduct & resisting arrest? The guy didn’t raise his voice or lift a finger and complied with almost everything the they asked for except for reproducing ID repeatedly.

It sounds like the short, bald cop handcuffed him for “being arrogant”. Would be interesting to see the final outcome.

BD

He would not want me as his Chief Pilot.

The Jerk had numerous opportunities to just STFU and go through the screening process and get on with his travels.

There comes a time to just shut up and endure the aggravation in silence and go on about your business.

He did not avail himself of several chances to do just that.

He got handcuffed as standard procedure upon being placed under arrest.

Being disruptive and un-cooperative in a security screening area is legitimate grounds for arrest.

Were I to be the one determining his fate....he would be on the street looking for a job simply for bringing my airline into disrepute in public and having demonstrated a very inappropriate behavior.

Another failed sky god.

Normally, if a pilot is on duty, his priority number 1 is to get out to his aircraft, be it to operate it or to travel on it to/from active duty. While security searches differ between airports with the experience being less pleasant at some than at others, the following is general knowledge too:

- Security staff is acting under their rules and orders. They are not allowed to bend them for individuals, however strongly they may demand this. Discussing with those at the coal face is pointless.

- Not submitting to the security search will cause major issues up to and including disciplinary ones from ones company, see SASlesses post.

- A delay caused at, not by security will draw curiosity from ones company as well.

If one feels inappropriately treated at security or wherever else, there are reporting channels that can be used and that every pilot knows. Such reports will in my experience be investigated and resolved one way or another. But initially, being polite and complying with the lawful requests of security personnel is the quickest and least troublesome way across their checkpoint. The freedom to roll ones eyes when airside is not infringed upon.

And - an ID is generally quickly pulled out and shown. Once, twice, thrice, You name it.

That is, if one has it at hand.

In my day the ID had to be visually displayed. They even gave us nice looking lanyards to accompany easy wearing.

Don't mess and argue with the US TSA are the key words here.
Right after 9/11 a, AF French captain ( and the Airline) learned it the hard way . while being screened and patted a bit too close, the captain made this remark : "common guys , I'm the captain , do you think I am going to hijack my own plane ? " he was immediately taken aside in a room , the duration of which meant the flight had to be cancelled, If my memory serves me well. AF pilots are now extremely polite when screened ..

He can’t be a real pilot as he’s not wearing a big fancy watch.

I can certainly understand his frustration, TSA random rates are much higher now and certainly can slow you down a bit particularly bad if catching a tight jumpseat.
KCM will be replaced by CMAP later this year. Appears to be a privately run company.

Indeed. There are people whose job it is to handle these issues, why not let them do their job?

Could it be that this was a test of the system?

Odd that this staged video has been made publicly available.

Not really, there's a huge ecosystem of youtube content centred around fomenting agitation against the police, first amendment 'auditors' etc. If you're familiar with the 'theme' you can recognise it for what it is almost immediately. A certain crowd eat it up.

Just move on, mark uninteresting, etc. Or read the comments if you're really in the mood for bottomfeeding.

The fact he’s reluctant to show his ID makes me think he’s prob a Walt

He needs to sort that tie and collar out.

No clip on tie , not a pilot :)

I was selected for additional screening while wearing my clip on tie and security pass . Sorry about this it’s random said the CATSA guy . No worries just as long as you warm your hands first as the last search I had their hands were really cold . “ My hands are still warm from the last thirty passengers said the agent . Who says they have no sense of humour ? There is only one rule in comedy it has to be funny and we both had a good laugh .

He's got a blue hard sided suitcase LOL, no crew luggage tags, no streamers, no union stickers, no lanyard around his neck with the crew ID, the most generic pilot uniform bought online...
This guy just reeks of being a fake pilot. At most he is a flight instructor that just got his first fractional job.
They talk about his company ID and his passport. Did anyone ever ask to see his pilot certificate or did he offer to show it to clear things up?
I have been randomed 5 times in a row. You smile and bear it. Only takes a few minutes extra to throw your bags on the belt and go through the scanner in the fast lane. No big deal and certainly not worth jeopardizing your KCM, your job, your career and possibly screwing over your fellow KCM badge holders over.

I am sure we have all had our moment with security, although in the end there should be a "memory item" that alerts you to just put your ego aside, and let them get on with their job.
But for sure at some airports in the UK a bit more friendly approach would go a long way to make the day better for everyone.

Beware the young or embittered security person who starts off impolitely. They can make an unpleasant start to your whole day. Silence and compliance are the order of the day. No jokes, minimal eye contact, and a gentle complaint to their manager once they have finished running the rule over you. This nastiness can often apply in the UK, USA, and especially in Canada. These people seem to want to prove themselves, or they clearly have an axe to grind about pilots. (In any event, no jests about fire axes).

My very favourite security screening was at the resort Dominican Republic airports; Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, and La Romana. Great mutual respect, smooth process.

Very worst was at Manchester Airport (MAN). Absolutely no surprises there.

MissChief wote
"(In any event, no jests about fire axes)."
you must know the Fire axe story?
A certain Captain, working a flight, for my Airline, had his nail clipper taken away by a zealous Security Screener in YYZ.
He returned to the Rapidair Lounge, with the Fire Axe from the cockpit. And told the Screening Agent,
"You may have my nail clipper, but I have this !"
Think Jack Nicholson in The Shinning..
I wasn't there, but knowing the Captain I believe it.
Later I was passing through YOW airport, in uniform working a flight waiting on the gate. The security screener wanted to take away a pair of tiny
needle nosed pliers I had just bought. I asked for the Supervisor, and explained to her , quietly, I had a 5 foot fire axe in the cockpit, so taking away my pliers was a bit extreme.
I offered to get the Fire axe and show it to her.
She let me go with the pliers.

Haha yeah as MAN based crew I totally get this, I hate going through there. I swear that damn metal detector hates me, f***** thing more often than not lets me go through then beeps like 5 seconds later. I swear when I leave I'm going to take a sledgehammer to the bastard thing. As for the staff, it really depends as sometimes they are quite nice but on other occasions they can be absolute c***s. One morning (around 4.15) the metal detector flags me or a full random, fair enough, the pat down is fine but the swab sets the other machine off making all sorts of noises. I ended up being stuck there for 25 minutes waiting for their duty manager to come and ask me some questions. Meanwhile I was unable to contact crewing to advise them that I was going to be late (and unusually there was no other crew from my airline passing through, normally there'd be dozens). By the time I was released I was so stressed out, I told the captain about it and he did offer to send me home but I operated anyway, filed a complaint with MAG but nothing came of it (all I wanted was to be able to use my phone to call crewing but I was not allowed to touch my stuff).

As for the tales of overzealous security, back in 2006 when they had a knee-jerk reaction to ban liquids they tried to take the ink cartridge off one of our captains, he politely explained that he didn't need the ink cartridge to do any damage given he is the one flying the bloody plane.

Oh Gods... that reminds me of an experience I had, paxing through... JFK I think it was, a year or two after 9/11.

My carry on contained a tiny (3" long) adjustable spanner; the security screener saw it and wanted to confiscate it. I asked why... you could see the wheels spinning behind her eyes as she groped for a justification and eventually she blurted out... "you could MAKE something with it!"

A friend who commutes between Saigon and Melbourne several times a year brings all sorts of odd stuff back to Australia with him.
On one occasion they refused to allow him to carry arc welding rods (in his checked luggage) because they insisted they were explosive.

I mean, they do look vaguely like sparklers, but they don't do anything at all until you put at least 50 Amps through them, and then they just melt; they certainly don't ignite...

He flew the next day instead, with no dramas at all over the same welding rods.

I hate going through my Home town airport MAN, so I decided to just live in Asia instead. The reason for Manchester's rude security is because the airport is surrounded by (the projects) the biggest in Europe, full of dodgy people, who's going to get to the airport for 3am to start work, mostly the people that surround the airport. There's some good ones, when I worked there in the shops, one guy used to wink at me a lot and gave me the soft pat down.

So glad I’m retired from all that. Generally polite but minimal communication from me unless they were obviously very friendly or as sometimes, the opposite. Chippy and unpleasant with a bewildering anti pilot vibe. Manchester Airport is an absolute dump populated by some of the latter type.

Honestly the guy in that video looks like someone who snapped way before the camera even started rolling. Real pilots go through security like everyone else, I’ve seen them do it a hundred times. Whatever he was thinking there wasn’t normal procedure for anyone. I’ve dealt with someone getting arrested at an airport before, and the whole thing usually moves fast once security decides you’re not cooperating. They don’t play around in those spots. When it happened to me, the only semi-sane moment of the whole mess was talking to King Stahlman Bail Bonds later on, just trying to figure out what exactly happens after someone gets hauled off. The rest of it felt like chaos. Wouldn’t surprise me if the guy in the video was having a breakdown or had something else going on. That level of entitlement or confusion isn’t how actual crew behave.

Indeed.

I think "we" collectively get the security we create. If we are all pleasant and calm and compliant, then the security people will generally be also - certainly in my experience. I think if they have a stream of people who are difficult, awkward and a bit mouthy; then security will get frustrated and uptight.

Anything security ask me; my reply is , "yep, whatever you need me to do", or " ..do you want me to open that....?". I also smile and say hello as I arrive - especially when in uniform - and crucially; I thank them at each stage as I am allowed through.

I've only ever had two minor problems - both travelling as a pax: One was forgetting that my liquids were still in my carry on bag instead of my hold bag- completely my fault.

The second was not removing a handkerchief from my pocket, (but I had removed everything else). The pat-down guy gave me a bollocking but I apologised and said truthfully that I had not understood what he had said prior to the pat-down, (he had a very strong accent). He must have had problems with his accent before because he just let me go.
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Security: Flight Crew Issues
 

Hi
We’ve had lots of issues here in Australia !

We don’t have seperate Crew Security Lanes here and with the new Scanners they are very (very) sensitive.

Australia has installed advanced Computed Tomography (CT) scanners and 3D body scanners .

Pat downs are common in “sensitive areas” and their was a big (Australian Newspaper) Article recently here in Australia quoting that Qantas Flight Crew often feel that when going through security it’s like being in a “Jail” (there words not mine ) !

I know they (Security) have to do job but sometimes their is “lack of respect “ towards Crew .

Cheers
Buddy

It's not just Crew who suffer from "disrespect" - it affects everyone. The problem is that security is a really boring, badly paid job. Imagine spending 8 hours a day at JFK or LHR telling people who clearly can't read that they have to take things out their pockets for the 1000th time that day. They switch off any empathy, they only see people as identical units. And if someone creates then that's interesting and they're going to get involved, if only because it's different. Makes their day.

I was advised early in my travelling life to ALWAYS treat security, customs and immigration with the utmost personal respect - Sir, Ma'am, Officer, Lt., - never volunteer anything, be as pleasant as you can and whatever you do CONFORM TO INSTRUCTIONS. And if that includes putting my bag through the scanner 5 times, as it did one afternoon at Madrid T4, then that's the luck of the game...............

Yes, exactly.

We have to be careful not to treat security as second class citizens. They probably hate their job as much as we hate the necessity of it.

By being pleasant to security; saying 'morning and thank you, and being generally polite and compliant, maybe a little bit of self-deprecating banter; security will gradually relax and realise that aircrew are nice people (generally).

Even, as you say, on that odd day when your bag has to go through several times.

Had this guy worn his ID around his neck or on his shirt, as we are supposed to do; security wouldn't have had to keep asking to see it and everything kicking off.

Don't get annoyed, don't question them, don't tell them their job or start getting arsey or tutting, sighing or getting an attitude.

Just remember - we are going out to fly a modern multi-million Euro aircraft, they are not, so there is no need to rub their noses in it. Just be nice and respectful.

I had one security agent at Bristol ask me if my son was autistic because he didn’t understand the orders being barked at him in English. I politely informed him, no, he is Spanish. I guess I could have taken it further, but I figure we all have bad days.

Overhere, security personnel is paid quite well. It is often their personal choice whether they set a comfortable scene for their clients - yes, we are clients as we all have to pay money for security checks! - and then receive respectful behaviour in return, or not. Luckily, we can use crew/staff security lanes here when travelling as passengers on duty and that makes life so much easier.

Well, in my opinion, we shouldn’t be treated exactly like normal passengers. We’ve been screened thoroughly to obtain our IDs, and we’re practically daily “customers” of the security staff. And I don’t mean skipping or bypassing any procedures, but simply being treated with a bit more kindness. When I was based in the UK, I’m pretty sure they took some hidden pleasure in messing with a pilot…

There was a young lady working security at Pudong who did very thorough, tactile pat-downs. The eye contact enhanced the experience. Often was the case that one would forget that one's phone was still in one's pocket.

Bear in mind that in the UK at least it's very likely that the security staff are on the minimum wage, once you add the shift pay for 03:00 starts.

You're thinking entirely too logically which gets you nowhere when discussing the Imperial Federal Government. You can bet the grocery money that they enjoy jerking around flight crews and never pass up the opportunity.

It's beyond comprehension why they find the need to screen flight crews when every pilot has a lethal weapon at the end of each arm. And, a federally-mandated crash axe in the cockpit of every airline airplane. In FAA Land, it's an MEL no-go item. The same axe you can't bring through security screening is required onboard by the same people jerking you around at a "security" screening.

FAR 121.309(e)

Logic has no place in this process.

Bafanguy

You and many other miss the point entirely.

Your suggestion that security should not be as restrictive for you because you have a crash axe in the cockpit and could crash the aeroplane if you wanted to therefore you should be allowed to carry stuff through security presupposes that the threat is by you, to your flight.

The actual concern is that aircrew could carry something through and then pass it to someone else for use on a different flight.

Let's imagine for a moment that security was less restrictive for crews. How long do you think it would be before some crew-member gets a text on their phone showing a picture of their family with a gun to their heads and a message saying "you will be given a package. Take it airside and give it to the person that approaches you on the other side"?