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Any more Dash 8 200s?
I’ve heard a rumour that just as the Twin Otter is now being re-manufactured under the Viking name, there is a chance this could happen with the Dash 8 200s.
In Australia, the Sydney to Lord Howe Island service needs a Dash 8 200 because of the short runway. Has anyone got any information on this rumour? |
Sounds highly unlikely.
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It's going to be a 300 derivative. DHC are currently polling customers to see what their requirements are and they are going to configure a "new" variant accordingly. Will need DeHavilland Field construction completed soon though.
FYI, the C6 has been in production by Viking for many years now. |
Is the Dash 8-200 really the only practical aircraft for Sydney–Lord Howe Island? Other short-field aircraft are surely available. I've heard of a STOL variant of the ATR 42-600, for example?
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ATR 42-600S (the STOL version) has same performance as the DHC 8-200 so I don't see why.
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ATR 42-600S (the STOL version) has same performance as the DHC 8-200 so I don't see why. |
I’ve heard a rumour that just as the Twin Otter is now being re-manufactured under the Viking name, there is a chance this could happen with the Dash 8 200s. |
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
(Post 11737006)
ATR website suggests a runway requirement of *800 - 1000m. *800m with a 70% payload over 200nm. Not much return on your capital there for the Lord Howe run.
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It's only 888 m long with a leg of 430 nm from Sydney and then about another 330 nm to the nearest mainland alternate which is mandatory
I have been informed that the ATR has nowhere near the range required! |
Originally Posted by Dick Smith
(Post 11737067)
It's only 888 m long with a leg of 430 nm from Sydney and then about another 330 nm to the nearest mainland alternate which is mandatory
I have been informed that the ATR has nowhere near the range required! So you would also barely have to put in any fuel for the trip to Sydney. |
Originally Posted by procede
(Post 11737118)
So you would also barely have to put in any fuel for the trip to Sydney.
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So you need a 760 nm range out of Sydney plus IFR reserves.
How many airline aircraft can do that with an economic passenger count and still be able to land and takeoff from 2800 feet? That's why there may be a market for the dash 200 hence the rumour. |
Don’t forget to allow for the westerly wind on the return leg, Sydney weather holding and traffic holding/delays.
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Solve the problem with the mighty Dash 7, that can cope with all that. Few about and no market for them sadly.
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I don't think one route to a tiny island in the Pacific is going to convince someone to re open an aircraft production line!
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Including the turnpads, the length is above 1 km. I think an ATR42-600s with some restrictions (fewer seats) should work.
Would it be possible to fit an auxiliary fuel tank? |
TORA / ASDA is 888m
LDA RWY 28 768m there might be 1km of bitumen but those are the numbers. |
Originally Posted by Dick Smith
(Post 11737159)
So you need a 760 nm range out of Sydney plus IFR reserves.
How many airline aircraft can do that with an economic passenger count and still be able to land and takeoff from 2800 feet? That's why there may be a market for the dash 200 hence the rumour. it would be nice for a 30 seat replacement aircraft to come onto the market, both the Q300 and Saab340 are getting a little long in the tooth and the ATR42 is a little too big, but a 1900 is a bit too small. |
Well, there is actually a review underway at the moment in Canada. There is some strong interest globally at both ongoing support of existing 100/200/300 airframes and is looking at the feasibility of restarting production.
The -200 risk is well known and identified in the Lord Howe context. There was also a study into extending Lord Howe. https://www.lhib.nsw.gov.au/sites/de...20Part%206.pdf |
C1300. Thanks for confirming the rumour. Can you advise me the name of the organisation?
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It would warm my heart to see the Dash 8-200 come back into production. It was one of the nicest aeroplanes I have flown and beautifully balanced. If they included some of the STC upgrades from Fields as have companies like Air Greenland it would be even better than the original.
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Deutsche Aircraft is developing a new version of the Dornier 328 turboprop, the slightly stretched D328eco with gravel gear. This might fit your bill?
https://www.deutscheaircraft.com/products/d328eco |
DHC reigniting another line? Good grief - they've hardly enough manpower to continue with their current load. Place is bereft of folk.
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Bring back the Pan Am Clipper?
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Dash-8 200 would be a waste of tooling, a 300 restart would be more likely to attract enough customers. The Dash-8 design is too big/heavy for an economical 30-40 seat airliner vs its competition, bump to its 50-70 seat market and its a much better fit. Very unlikely a 30-40 seat dash would get the 100-200 orders to make a restart viable, especially with economical modern opposition in the market like the Dornier 328 ECO around the corner in the 30-40 seat range.
Bring back the Pan Am Clipper? |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11737744)
Dash-8 200 would be a waste of tooling, a 300 restart would be more likely to attract enough customers. The Dash-8 design is too big/heavy for an economical 30-40 seat airliner vs its competition, bump to its 50-70 seat market and its a much better fit. Very unlikely a 30-40 seat dash would get the 100-200 orders to make a restart viable, especially with economical modern opposition in the market like the Dornier 328 ECO around the corner in the 30-40 seat range.
Get some of those jet powered Russian flying ships. Lun class, Ekranoplan, if on a budget, the recently designed A-050 Ekranoplan might be more economical. |
Originally Posted by artee
(Post 11737750)
And how well does the Ekranoplan work in rough seas?
PS I was joking about the Ekranoplans, there's no chance anyone outside the old communist regimes would touch the things. Although even less chance of a Sunderland or Clipper coming back to do the run. |
Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 11737649)
Deutsche Aircraft is developing a new version of the Dornier 328 turboprop, the slightly stretched D328eco with gravel gear. This might fit your bill?
https://www.deutscheaircraft.com/products/d328eco Looking at the payload range, the fuel tank does seem to have a bit more capacity, which seems to be a limiting factor for the ATR. 760nm should be doable with ~35 pax. https://www.d328.eco/product-features |
No one wants to fly 200nm! Stuff the airport. You can get in a car or train and get there easier and quicker!
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ATR42 600S
Rumours say that ATR 42 600S didn't pass the tests and is kind of history now...
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
(Post 11737852)
No one wants to fly 200nm! Stuff the airport. You can get in a car or train and get there easier and quicker!
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How about a Chinook? Boeing 234LR has sufficient range assuming a helicopter has no need to be able to divert back to its point of departure.. Must admit I am surprised that an LR version of anything stops at 540 miles.
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How about a civilian version of the CN-235? At first glance the specs seem broadly similar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASA/I...cations_(CN235) |
Originally Posted by AnotherFSO
(Post 11738143)
How about a civilian version of the CN-235? At first glance the specs seem broadly similar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASA/I...cations_(CN235) What a POS - perhaps the only time I've been truly scared on a commercial flight. |
Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 11738168)
… perhaps the only time I've been truly scared on a commercial flight.
I used to live in Jakarta and flew on Garuda many times. I was never truly scared, only mildly apprehensive on occasion. However I was in Bali, when a DC-9 overran the 10,000’ runway and ended up in the mangrove swamp beside the road to Nusa Dua! |
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
(Post 11737852)
No one wants to fly 200nm! Stuff the airport. You can get in a car or train and get there easier and quicker!
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Tamarack are investigating their winglets on the Q400.
If we are talking of new engines for a -300, could it be turned into a 340Kt baby 400? https://www.flyingmag.com/tamarack-m...-with-skyalps/ |
I don’t understand why they can’t just keep operating the Dash 8 200? Find the lowest time lowest cycle one out there and buy it as a dedicated airplane for this route. This is massively cheaper than extending the runway.
Heck look at the Basler Turbine DC3. 80 year old airframe and still going strong and more than capable on the existing runway |
Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
(Post 11738647)
I don’t understand why they can’t just keep operating the Dash 8 200? Find the lowest time lowest cycle one out there and buy it as a dedicated airplane for this route. This is massively cheaper than extending the runway.
Heck look at the Basler Turbine DC3. 80 year old airframe and still going strong and more than capable on the existing runway The idea of stocking up on -200s isn’t a bad stop gap measure (if they’re not doing that already ) but it too will have a finite end time, hence this thread. The TCDS shows -200 and -300 have an underlying certification basis of 1965 - almost 60 years old. The -400 is 1995. |
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