Which thereby proves threemiles wrong when he says that this is the first time the ash is 'clearly visible' to the satellite.:ok:

Not true. They have also normalised the pixel spacing. Something that, when you get as far north as Iceland, has a significant effect upon the data. It'd be interesting to know if the London VAAC normalise in a similar way, or whether they increase accuracy by using other sources of information.

Well now I am confused
 

Well looking at the latest London VAAC charts it looks to me as if this morning GLA and EDI should be closed due ash and later today this is likely to affect MAN, BFS and LPL so I don't understand why the associated flights and airports aren't closed?

Can someone explain to me as a pilot why they're still operating within the red zone?

Desk-pilot

Desk Pilot,

you're probably looking at the wrong charts. It's the black areas on these charts that indicate the no-fly zones:

Met Office: Icelandic volcano - Ash concentration charts

Czech airspace closure?
 

Oversteer,

Looking at these charts, I don't think there's going to be any disruption in Czech airspace today. :ok:

Take care,
Sabenaboy

Why did France not close its Southern Airspace?
 

Spain closed parts of its airspace yesterday, so did Italy in the north today. Of course the ash got there by passing trough Southern France. Ash concentration charts for 0000Z on 09/05/2010 indicated a thick black area over the whole Cote Azure, yet the airspace remained open.

In a Notam, France reminded pilots and operators to check Sigmets/Notam/Ashtam before flight, but passed the bucket to the pilots/operators to decide whether or not it's safe to fly. Spain and Italy determined that it would not be safe under the circumstances.

Do you think it's justified to leave the decision to fly with pilots and operators?

Latest ash concentration charts by VAAC London can be found here: Met Office: Icelandic volcano - Zoom air ash concentration charts

yes ! individual routings and diferent types make a blanket ban inapropriate. I guess the airlines cancelled some flights in the area they judged as affcted

bb

Ash Radar
The ash didnt get to spain from france, it moved in from the atlantic. Thats not to say it didnt end up in france.

It should not be entirely up to the pilots, but since no politician in Europe has the leadership skills and balls required for the job, it is left up to us. Instead of sending up drones, balloons or using other test/sample equipment or boroscope examination results already available from all carriers in Europe, the politicians, as usual, chicken out. They're not even wiling to provide us with any sort of drone/test flight/ laser measurement data.
Without a plethora of committees and subcommittees to hide behind, no fall guy and no way to shift the blame, they are scared sh!tless and need human shields (pilots) outside their offices.
I have never heard of similar situations in other parts of the world, even though volcanoes erupt everywhere, all the time! That said, I have no second thoughts about flying in Zone 2 / low contamiation areas. I am more worried about bird strikes and thunderstorms, since these have brought down far more aircraft than invisible computer generated ash clouds...

Perhaps the French quite rightly have concluded that it is better for the pilot/operator to make the final call, given good accurate indicative information, rather than some government department stating that airspace is closed ufn.
Far more sensible and realistic approach by the French imo.

Make up you mind do - you want 'politicians' (actually the experts are giving the guidance) making the decision or do you want operators to decide themselves?
The science says you can't fly. Whats the point of sending "up drones, balloons or using other test/sample equipment or boroscope examination results already available from all carriers" when it simply confirms the know extent, distribution and effect of VA?

FAAM Flying Programme?
 

Hi

Like others on this thread I question why the UK Gov sold off the C130 "Snoopy" in 2001.

Were it still with us it would be an ideal platform for measuring ash concentrations and could contribute real data in support of predictions.

Today we rely on a partnership programme from Cranfield run by BAE and others using a modified RJ.

What's the RJ doing this weekend? Where is it operating? Can an RJ fly as high or as far as Snoopy? The FAAM programme does not provide much reassurance.

I fear this summer will see Billions wiped off the airline industry at a time when many carriers of all sizes are close to the financial edge.

The European airline industry needs real time real measurements in order to ensure we can keep flying for as long as is safely possible.

The UK contribution of an RJ run by BAE and others looks a bit light weight to me....

Regards Bigpants

You need to read the volcanic ash cloud thread, there are some factual posts in there which may assist your understanding.
Personally I'm very glad that governments are making the decision to close airspace and it's not left up to pilots/commercial pressures on airlines. I believe that governments have a responsibility to their citizens to make decisions for their safety. A plane falling on my head, my wife's, my family or friends is not something I wish to happen. Engine manufacturers have (finally) decided on a 'safe' level of ash ingestion and governments are applying regulations based on the 'unsafe' ash forecast areas.

BD

Stupid and dangerous to those on the ground. In my company 'safety first' isn't just a catchword or soundbite phrase, we live, breathe and practice it.

BD

Money. Costs a lot to run a plane.
This has been an unprecedented event, you have to make a risk assessment to balance the cost of maintaining something 'just in case' and the likelihood of that event occuring.

BD

Vulcano ashes & Pitot probes
 

Hi there. Don't know if this has been mentionned but isn't the accelerated clogging & obstruction of the Pitot tubes by vulcano ashes a potential danger ?
Jeff

FAAM flying programme
 

To reassure Bigpants;

>>>"Were it still with us it would be an ideal platform for measuring ash concentrations and could contribute real data in support of predictions."

The BAe 146-301 G-LUXE has become far more capable than Snoopy, and has recently had extra instrumentation fitted especially for the ash sniffing role. It is contributing real data in support of the science models used to predict the location of the ash.

>>>"Today we rely on a partnership programme from Cranfield run by BAE and others using a modified RJ."

The aircraft is tasked by the science teams involved in the research - Met Office and University, to be pedantic (on pprune, never!) BAE are the aircraft owners, they do not define the science programme.

>>>"The UK contribution of an RJ run by BAE and others looks a bit light weight to me...." := It most certainly is not!!

The aircraft tasking is continously under review so that it is used to best effect and, as you can see from the FAAM website, it is currently devoted to the 'VOLCANO' tasking. There is intense activity 'behind the scenes' to ensure aircraft and instrument availability and to optimise the aircraft operation.

G-LUXE was the prototype 146-100 and was flown then as G-SHHH (whisperjet). The airframe was then modified to become the 146-300 test airframe, now G-LUXE, before the conversion to type 146-301, the unique aircraft you see now. I believe that means it was never an RJ.

Jim

no nice for easyjet today 1050
 

no flight to nice today at 1050 from lgw

From that I assume you refuse to accept the weather forecast models and expect to depend on real, continuous measurements of the cloud. But how many aircraft will that require - hundreds to cover the whole of Europe I'd guess.. would they be more precise in giving hourly updated than remote sensing/forecasting? I doubt it.

However, they may also show that the models vastly underestimate the extent and density of the ash cloud, resulting in far more closure of airspace. I assume you would welcome this, or are you simply asking for the answer you want rather than the truth?

Sorry boys and girls.
Who has the latest info sitting in front of them? The Met office/ATC! Not me in my aircraft.
As for the operator? Well do you really want Willy, MOL and co, deciding if it’s safe or not? Are you MAD!

Small Met Charts
 

Sepp asked: Does anyone else find it frustrating that, given the potential insurance problems, we have either to:
a) trust our luck to rediculously small charts (Met Office*)...

Don't forget that these charts are only forecasts of ash distribution, derived from meteorological models. Their accuracy is no better than the weather forecast.

Larger charts would only give the impression of greater accuracy.