I believe that 2 of the thai 747 are being bought to Europe to be sold on. Think they are going to cargo operator in Europe, :hmm:

That may be, but they're also substituting the aircraft for regularly scheduled Orient Thai 747 flights.
Monday October 13, 9am OX203 out of Hong Kong was a One-Two-Go MD80. It took off 07Right.

Otg Md80 Hkg 11 Oct 2008
 

Photo taken on 11 OCT 2008 at HKG of OTG MD80.

JetPhotos.Net Photo » HS-OMC (CN: 49479) One-Two-GO by Orient Thai McDonnell Douglas MD-82 by Dennis Chow

Don't want to burst the bubble...?
 

but in the Bangkok Post article, it states the following:

"One-Two-Go's parent company, Orient Thai Airlines, resumed services on Sept 20, when the department restored the operating licence of the airline that uses MD80 aircraft."

(my bold)

OTG may still be on the ground, but it looks like OT is in the clear for MD operations. I do not wish to defend Udom, but the DCA has reinstated the MD AOC for OT, just not for OTG as yet. We all know it is the same bucket of sh!t management running both airlines, however I suspect that the DCA has now mandated that the operations structure and manuals for OTG are more formally separated from that of OT, to better distinguish the two? :ugh:

That will not fix what has happened or what is going to happen, it just means that the DCA has found a way to keep Udom's head above water long enough to ensure that before their golf memberships and cars get too old, they get new ones before too long. :E

Udom is currently in Tokyo with JAL where he is "buying" a batch of B747-300 aircraft - in reality these are going to Kabo in Nigeria and Udom is making a nice mark up apparently he has exclu:bored:sive rights with an agency called Jalux to first refusal on all their disposals. He had the same 3 years ago on a batch of A300 Freighters

Bubbles Bursting
 

So let's see...In August, both AOC's are suspended. And on 20 Sept, the OX AOC is reinstated.

And in that 4-6-weeks, OX manages to re-configure their fleet from B74's to the MD-8's, train and certify all crews, and resolve all the maintenance and FOM issues that caused the suspension of the AOC of the carrier that was the source of their new fleet.

Yeah, right.

tbavprof,

In actual fact, the MD fleet already belonged to OT....if you look at the legal case against OT (provided on Thailand must investigate Udom Tantiprasongchai) you will see the "Wet Least" agreement between OT and OTG.

I am sure you all know the difference, but just in case, "Wet Lease" means that the aircraft come with crew...that already belonged to OT...

In clause 11.0 of that agreement, it clearly states that the Lessor (OT) will be responsible for providing four sets of crew with each aircraft.

What I am getting at is the fact that OT already had all necessary equipment and resources to re-launch the MD operation under the OT banner without having to worry about the effects on OTG. I can only imagine that any rectification work required by the DCA was directed at OTG only and not that of OT (be it all the same at the end of the day)?

Again, I am not condoning what or how Udom runs his airline, but the facts need to be observed if any effect against OT or OTG is to be achieved.

Maintenance Fraud
 

Another set of Orient Thai maintenance logs showing maintenance fraud and dangerous flight: InvestigateUdom look for Oct 22, 2008
(Also some older insurance documents.)

Conflicting Information?
 

B74, I understand the wet lease, but have a difficult time reconciling your explanation with this information provided when the OX AOC suspension was lifted.

Free month in Madrid for DTAC inspectors! That is some serious oversight. Now I understand the delay.:ok:

Translations unreliable
 

Remember though , these quotes are translated into English and can be quite unreliable.

I believe Orient Thai is now doing the Hajj for Garuda out of Jakarta.

i think i listened to them today enroute to jeddah. watta shame!:ugh:

Garuda HAJ was done by AAI for many years, what happened?
A half way decent company, not like these Thai ones, fly anything , no rules or regs allowed.
Even down to the sim checks, all pencil whipped, yet the Thai DCA allows this to continue.
Either fly or go home as they say, even if you are overdue by many months.
Been there done that.
What a low life operation with these Thai ones that operate using threats and intimidation.
Starts at breakfast in the hotel.
Manager says you wont be paid for this and that as stated in your contract etc.
You fly overtime and its not paid according to the agreed amount before you flew this.
Going to the aircraft you see MEL cat C items that have expired months ago and still open.
No go items signed off as we don't have the parts, signed off as airworthy and in the log books like this.
You say if you are going to lie at least make the paper work look honest in case we are ramp checked.
Yet you complain about this to the C/P you are labeled as a troublemaker.
All fire warnings have to be considered as false, even when they burn a hole through the engine cowling.
Same aircraft shells an engine out, parts all over the desert, all covered up.
Yes these all happened just a short while ago with a Thai ACMI company.
Better jobs out there folks.

Can you be specific?
 

Earl,
Can you be specific, what airlines are doing this?
Is Thai air is included in your round up of " Thai airlines"?
Would you consider writing a letter to US FAA/ and NTSB as they are keeping Thailand at a category 1 "safe" status ( I believe).
This is what pisses me off - this whole country is nothing but one big lie and those people on Flight 269 were suckered into believing Thai commercial aviation is regulated properly .
This is what I want to uncover, just so people know and can make an INFORMED choice on whether to visit T land or not

Seems One-Two-Go might be flying again soon. Bangkok Thailand business, economic,market

Wouldn't make any difference...folks will visit Thailand anyway....for the obvious reasons.:E

obvious reasons
 

If by that you mean the cheep sleazy sex trade, you risk obfuscating a real problem.

Many people would be willing to shrug off illegal, corrupt and dangerous aviation if those put in harm's way were only the sexual deviants who prey upon children. However, because Thailand markets herself as an exotic, friendly and affordable tourist destination, many of the travelers to Thailand are recent college grads and young retirees. These past, and potentially future, victims are not getting what they deserve.

The only route to aviation safety is accountability.

Do you really believe that Thai International, or indeed any other foreign airlines that operate to Thailand, are in such a poor state as Odom's operation?

If so, you are sadly mistaken.
You will get absolutely nowhere trying to besmirch Thailand's reputation with such tactics...except to be totally ignored.
In other words, you are a fool.
Why am I not surprised....:rolleyes:

411A: Did I misunderstand your "obvious reasons" comment? If so, please clarify.

More than likely.
A pleasant inexpensive holiday with friendly local folks is a good reason, don't you think?
Painting the Thai aviation scene with such a broad derogatory brush is uncalled for, IMO.

411A: You said: "Painting the Thai aviation scene with such a broad derogatory brush is uncalled for".
What, specifically, was my "broad derogatory brush" of the Thai aviation scene?

Thailand is NOT SAFE
 

Thailand, the government and her people have no regard for safety , in any aspect of travel, in any aspect of life.
This is the dirty lie, that's it's a safe destination.

Phuket Air is also dangerous according to pilots on this forum , in this thread .
We know Thai DCA didn't do its job with 1-2 Go and Orient Thai, why would it do its job with any other airline.
Perhaps Thai Air is safe, ( voluntarily ?) but who knows in this country innundated with corruption?

And just WHY hasn't Thai DCA completed one investigation into 3 separate incidents involving deaths on Thai airliners?

Those are very serious accusations and offensive to the Thai people. I do understand why you have been banned from the Thai forums.

I agree with 411A

I will also add that TG is member of the star alliance, do you think that the other members will let the PAX to fly on an unsafe airline?

You want to go after Udom, do it but in your quest you should not generalize.

On previous posts, I have urged you (and InvestigateUdom) to stop generalizing. Unfortunately that fell upon deaf ears. Now you are being quite insulting and derogatory against a nation, a nation you appear to be a guest of, if your profile is factual.

You are now probably having a negative impact on your apparent quest due to your general attitude to Thailand and its people.

Again, as stated before, I fully support any actions that dispose of the dross within this industry but I cannot agree with your constant inference that everything here is bad.

I totally agree with both FrequentSLF & 411A posts above.

Yes IU. I have to agree with the previous posts. By all means go after Udom - he's a gangster and he needs to be taken down. But to generally paint Thailand with the same, negative brush is neither fair nor accurate.
There is a lot here that's very good, just as there is a lot that is very bad, But then, you can say that about most countries in the world.

Is it Udom or the DCA
 

411A, ZFT, FrequentSLF, ChristySweet and everyone else following this thread:

We are all following this thread because we have concerns or interests related to Thai-based aviation. I suggest we stop the factually non-specific and ad hominem language of these past few posts, as they make the thread not worth reading and this is too important a subject to tolerate such degradation.

I will take some blame here for misunderstanding 411A's initial post about people coming to Thailand "for obvious reasons". (In my part of the world, I actually do occasionally have to tell people that not everyone going to Thailand is looking for sleazy sex.) In my response I was careful to ask if he meant the sex stuff. Apparently he did not. ("obvious" to 411A was not obvious to everyone.)

Regarding the important issues being covered in this thread. Is the trouble with Udom and Orient Thai/One-Two-Go? Is the problem with the DCA? Could it possibly be with the Thai people in general?

Here is what is publicly known:

• There are very significant issues with Udom and any airline he might run. IMO, he should be banned from aviation worldwide. Most people reading this thread have seen the proof. Many of the people following this thread in Thailand deal with or have dealt with Udom on a regular basis. They have lived this reality.
• There are very significant issues with the DCA and their failure to provide oversight of Thai-based aviation. At a minimum, cronyism prevents them from doing their jobs. Much more likely - and I have very credible allegations to the point - the DCA (particularly but not limited to Witichai) is corrupt.

Since the DCA is unable or unwilling to do their jobs in overseeing Thai-based aviation, this causes Thai-based airlines to be only as safe as their management prefers them to be. I have proof (and am in the process of taking it public) of serious deficiencies at Phuket Air and Skystar. The issues are similar and, at Phuket Air, even worse than at Orient Thai. Because the DCA doesn't do it's job, travelers all over the world are unknowingly endangered.

Bangkok Airways
 

Cambodia's Siem Reap Airways International and all carriers from Angola have been added to the European Commission's 'blacklist' of banned airlines.

Siem Reap Airways is owned by Bangkok Airways and operate A320.

So either the guys in Brussels are blind or something is definitely suspicious here ....

Thailand is a great place, people are friendly, you can walk the streets and feel safe , food is excellent etc.
Just a couple of these ACMI airlines leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to operations.
I did hear that the C/P resigned recently from the airline I was referring to and things should improve dramatically, unless they appoint another one like this.
Quite a few left because of this C/P due to his threats and intimidation forcing crews to fly like this or go home.
I really don't think the head managers at the time cared that they were losing all there crew, but think they know why now!
Maybe they can turn it around and be a good company.
Go to Thailand and enjoy.
But I will say if the Thai DCA was doing its job correctly this thread would not exist, lots of things they have let slip past them.
Serious issues!!

One-Two-Go Continues Illegal Flight
 

One-Two-Go continues to fly regular Orient Thai routes Hong Kong to Bangkok. They've been flying this route since approximately Oct 11th. Too bad One-Two-Go has a suspended AOC.

See Witichai say they are still suspended. Or maybe he hasn't noticed OTG flying out of Bangkok?

I would suggest that both you and ChristySweet review your own posts before suggesting what I and others should post.

Stick to Udom and the like and I will have no need to respond. Carrying on trying to drag this country and/or the good operators down with wild, false or inaccurate statements will only illicit further responses from me which you will have to tolerate.

I proudly stand behind everything I've written.
Have a good day.

Confused - certainly not. I admire IU for what she is trying to achieve. Where Udom and his ilk are concerned, I fully support the objective.

My issue is and always has been the occasional drift against everything within Thailand. There are many good things here, many good aviation people.

Unfortunately, there is also the rubbish whom hopefully will get their just deserves.

Yes, positive. Her quest against Udom is without doubt justified.

As someone who spends a lot a time in Thailand and in the air there I fully support this thread and its aims. The thais attitudes to safety are not as ours. Spend time there and see the states of the buses with worn out tires and brakes, drivers falling asleep at the wheel due to lack of sleep or alcohol are common. Taxis can be downright dangerous. Part of this is , I think due to the fatalistic mai pen rai attitude of the thais, broadly speaking, !!!! happens. Health and safety just doesn't exist there, if you ever see a Thai constuction site you will weep.
The inate corruption present in state institutions from the Prime ministers office right down to the street cop after some tea money poisons most things and allows crooks like Udom to flourish. Thats the way things are and always have been, its going to take a long time for things to change, if they ever will. Still a great place though.

But Thai DCA IS inept, corrupt and criminal
 

Is Thai Air safe? Who knows?

I apologize if I set off a debate on Thai fatalistic culture that is totally inappropriate for this forum- but I'm adamant that Thailand is not a safe destination for air travelers.

It's not just 1-2 Go, it's also Phuket Air and SkyStar That we KNOW about. And these airlines are not safe because of Thai DCA ineptness, corruption and possible criminalty .
So ....Again,

Why hasn't Thai DCA completed one crash investigation in 3 separate incidents involving deaths?

Let me add...
If it weren't for InvestigateUdom, 1-2 Go would still be flying with all the unsafe practices still in place .
Already Thai aviation is somewhat safer because of her incredible efforts , BUT NOT YET SAFE ENOUGH.
So please, get on your knees and thank her.

From a surviving passenger on flight OG 269
 

Brent Boerkamp, Netherlands
"My girlfriend and I didn't knew that flying in Thailand was so dangerous since we have horrible experienced it last year. So many people have lost their precious lives, and so many families have lost their loved ones. Can you sleep at night 'mister' Tantiprasongchai? I can't...
I thought that the FAA would be our safety guards and protecting us against mala fide airlines and aviation authorities but now I know they don't, they will only reward them. Is this the new standard?! Do you like to gamble and let your family fly in Thailand?! FAA, you have the power to stop this kind of criminal activities, why do you look the other way?!"

My, How This Has Degenerated
 

First off, let me say that Christy's original comment that sparked this debate was over the top. And I agree that, should she wish to start a consumer boycott of Thailand, she's certainly within her rights, and totally inappropriate for this forum.

As someone who rides a scooter in LoS everyday, anyone would have a hard time convincing me that transportation safety is Priority #1 around here. But again, this isn't the appropriate forum for these types of discussions.

What is legitimate IMO, is a discussion of endemic corruption, the structural components of the Thai aviation industry and regulating authorities, and their effects on the safety of air transportation here.

If you start at the lowest levels, there ARE plenty of people here in the industry and government who DO care about safety. IU wouldn't have been able to gather the documentation she has on out and out criminal behavior at 1-2-Go, and a preponderance of evidence suggesting complicity by DCAT, unless that was true... even at 1-2-Go.

Going up to the carrier level, I would agree that PG, TG, and SGA/Nok operate at a much higher standard of safety than others overseen by DCAT. However, I wouldn't overgeneralize that there aren't individuals in those organizations who place safety further down their priority list. And I especially wouldn't aver that DCAT or any of the aviation-related state enterprises are immune to pressure and influence from TG. The structure of the state enterprise system, the interrelations and transfers of personnel between industry and government regulators, and even practices such as DCAT Safety Inspection Officers being carried on the payrolls of industry participants invites questioning of the appearance of conflict of interest, at the very least.

At the CAA level, the whole country must be painted with a broad brush, no matter how unfair to individuals or individual operators.
And, based on what's been posted even in this thread, it's clear that the FAA (through its IASA program or interminable delays implementing NTSB recommendations) and EASA (as noted with the Siem Reap ban) are either totally incompetent, or themselves subject to influences that keep them from making Safety-First decisions. So it's not exclusive to Thailand. As actions by these two bodies are widely viewed by the traveling public as the sole indicators of air transportation safety reliability, especially when planning trips abroad, to question the information contained in their pronouncements seems legitimate.

Blue skies.

What about Hong Kong Authorities? Why are they allowing such flights?
Maybe an official letter of clarification to Hong Kong CAA (if that is the name).
I hardly believe that Hong Kong will let an airline without AOC on their airspace.

Maybe...
 

Possibly because the flights are operating as OX, and they have a certified copy of the OX AOC (no details required) on board?

I apologize for my ignorance, however I have to ask how is possible that an AOC is valid in one country and not in another one? Is clear that the EU is not recognizing the AOC issued by the Indonesian CAA, however here we are talking about OX using OG planes and crew. OG has not a valid AOC, therefore HKG should be aware of it.