Pilot rebels against security check
 

Story in Norwegian

One of the pilots of flight DY742 from Oslo to Trondheim this morning, refused to be security checked. He proceeded to the aircraft with security staff trying to stop him, and boarded.
Pax were off-loaded, made to go through security again and then re-boarded on another AC.

The pilot's OSL ID had been withdrawn and he has consequently been grounded. He has made a statement to his chief pilot , but Norwegian has not declared why the pilot took this unusual action.

<deleted>

Maybe he went through the crew channel on the freight apron at Manchester to many times and just simply got fed up with the BS!:{

eal401

So, because you can't think of a justification, the pilot must be a moron. :confused:

Let's see .....

"refused to be security checked"
Whose version of events is that? The pilot? The security man? The journalist who wrote the story?

Refused to be checked at all?
Or to the satisfaction of the security man - who may have been sensible and reasonable, or silly and unreasonable.

Maybe the pilot reacted rashly out of sheer frustration at an over-zealous check?
Even if he did, does that make him a moron?
Unwise, yes. But a moron?
Not IMHO.

I have to put up with security checks in my job, and they are no more than time-wasting window-dressing which does nothing to improve security. Some security men are reasonable, others aren't and undoubtedly enjoy their 'power'. The quickest way through with those is to pretend you don't mind in the slightest and have all the time in the world to spare. If they detect the slightest hint of irritation in voice or expression, the time it takes at least triples.

You can't beat the system. It doesn't matter how frustrated you get or how obnoxious the security staff are, there will only be one loser. Chances are, he will lose his job and access to security passes for the sake of this incident. Sorry, but I will go with the moron statement.
Been a moron myself a couple of times, got away with it thank god........

Well, I was assuming flaps' translation was reliable. My mistake perhaps?

Airport security unfortunately has alot to be desired.

I was extremely shocked to find that after going through a security check, on the other side I could find a pair of scissors on the counter in the retail shop.

After reporting the incident to the security manager, his response was that, well they should be looked after by the staff of the retail shop. I wonder how long it would have taken for the retail staff to realise that the scissors had gone missing. I think it would have been enough time for someone to get onto a plane and out of there, then what are they going to do... close the whole airport down?

I honestly think that security needs to be beefed up, and if I was a pilot, wouldn't especially like to know that everytime I flew, there was a potential for a problem. I would be expecting that there would be zero chance of anything getting onto that aircraft.

For all of you who are getting fed up with security checks on you whilst you are on duty, I recommend you try and do a Gander slip.

There, they have a most tasty young lady who gives you the pad down. Well, they did this morning, at least.

Makes a difference from the miserable (male) gits we usually have to endure, who I suspect would have their day made if they thought they could smell even a sherry trifle on us.

eal401

I don't doubt the accuracy of Flaps' translation.
Do you believe everything you read in English newspapers?

I would have so much more time for critics of security gurads if they weren't accused of "enjoying the power"

Surprising as it may seem, some security staff are just doing their jobs and trying to do them properly. Pilots thinking that they are above security checks are not helping anybody (not just from this story, from posts on here ad nauseam)

Pilot caught with plotting instruments in flight bag
 

At MAN last week, an FO in uniform and displaying a valid Security Pass was stopped and held for 10 minutes while the geniuses from Security debated the safety of the situation.

He was eventually released, still carrying compasses and dividers, to operate an ETOPS transatlantic flight.

Can the security world please use their common sense and intelligence to stop this sort of nonsense? Either the guy's ID was valid as checked, or not. In the event that he was sent through to the X-ray machine, he should have been ok to carry tools of the trade, nail scissors, a bottle opener, a screwdriver, or box cutters. After all, the pilot would end up seated only feet away from a "deadly" fire axe, and at the controls of an even "deadlier" 250-ton aircraft loaded with flammable Jet fuel.

Different and practical rules should apply for pilots, as opposed to passengers and maybe cabin crew, as they are already granted the full responsibility for safe operation of the flight.

(I am not diminishing the cabin crew's role here)

Excellent Post RoyHudd I could not agree more!

Has anyone had thier mag light taken yet? I now carry the cheapest thing that will meet my company requirement so if its taken at least I am not out the 30 bucks the mag cost.

I agree with the previous post since all aircrew has already undergone a 10 year back ground check I think we should be given a little more lattitude on what we carry. From flash lights to the dreaded finger nail clipper with the nail file.

:mad:

that would obviously require an amout of common sense and not the current 'jobs worth' attitude.
Those who make the rules obviously dont get out much!! :(

Never mind the duty free glass bottles brought on board or myriad of 'items' that can be bought in duty free before boarding. Nice one!

Security
 

Re Mr Chips post,

Surely its quite simple, or at least should be, weather you are Crew, Staff, Security whatever.

There should be & needs to be common courtesy, mutual respect, tact & patience from all parties concerned when going through security. I do however appreciate that, often this is much easier said than done. A quick` good morning` from both parties before the sucurity screening takes place, would at least help to lower any tension & help you move to the aircraft feeling just that little more relaxed.

Ideal world I know folks, but it may be well worth a try, needs participation from all concerned though

Just a quick point on this one, and I don't want to start an argument it was just something that crossed my mind...
Do you think that ATCO's should be accorded this privilege as well? We have to undergo a full UK Security check, sign the official secrets act etc... I am sure there are plenty of jobs that would qualify under this idea?

Update

link

The Captain passed through the metal detector and got green light. Security guards said he walked too fast and asked him to go through again. He did and got green again. Guards still maintained he had walked too fast and asked him to pass through for the thrid time.
He refused.

The AC had started taxiing when it was called back by the tower and told to return to the gate. It did. Once there, pilots requested and got new clearance, which they recieved. Taxied out again and were called back again.
Pax off loaded.

The company's union rep states that the Captain concerned does not recognise the description of the event as given by the security staff, and that the whole thing is a storm in a teacup.

The company refuses to comment beyond saying that they want to get to the bottom of this and that the Captain is grounded until they do.

Well, good luck to the captain and I hope these bottom-fondling failed wheel-clamping security jobsworths are given a hearty Viking kick up the backside and told to stop being so bloody childish.

Time that someone stood up against these little Hitlers with their 'Befehl ist Befehl' attitude.

Bolt from the Blue
 

flapsforty, I object to your trying to confuse the issue by introducing relevant facts.

We were just getting on fine with the speculation and meanderings around the subject without your coming along with this bolt from out of the blue. Quite ruins the way the thread was developing.

It is surely clear to all objective readers that this is just a petty attempt to embarass the ever wise eal401 - and just because he suggest that the pilot was a "moron" who had "little justification for his action". Shame on you.

From a previous post responding to eal401Not a million miles from what happened, it seems. :)

I sometimes wonder while going through "security" with all the other pax and being aware it is all just so much window dressing, what would happen if everyone turned around and said "No, enough!".......OK so if it was pax there would be alot of empty aeroplanes for a day or two....but then what?

... And what if it was aircrew who turned around one day and said the same thing....What would be the reaction? I think things would change overnight because there is far too much money involved in the business for aeroplanes not to fly. Just look what effect the shutdown of the US airspace for a couple of days had, just after the cause of all this.

Just a thought....;)

Flying Lawyer and others

I think you will find the explanation for eal401's abuse of someone he doesn't know, about a story he barely knows more than a line about:
<<What a moron.>>
...can quite easily be explained by this peculiar anti-pilot obsession he has with coming to a Pilots Forum and being as rude and abusive about pilots as he can. He is getting a name for himself! Very bizarre. Why would a 'management consultant' (ie 'clerk') want to come here just to be so anti and nasty?


It is unfortunate that as a result of so many odd people coming to pprune to bang their Anti-BA drum and their anti pilot drum, very very few of my colleagues even bother coming here. Fortunately I have an extremely thick skin and respond to such aggression with similar- I can take it and give it back, but most of my pilot colleagues regard this place as an unpleasant bear pit that unfortunately gives these weird people a forum to spout from, and they never ever come here, sadly. We have our own forums where outsiders like them can't nose their way in to spout such nastiness, and quite frankly, these people are spoiling the aims of pprune by their obsession- pilot & pilot, and pilot & public interaction. What can we do about them, because even my patience is wearing thin?

I tink it unwise to speculate excessively about eal401, since that would be to engage in the erroneous nonsense and deductions that seem like second nature to him. But the role of "early or traumatic toilet experiences" (being taken off the potty too early) seems a credible opening option.

Wow,Rainboe....want to talk about diabetics instead? How about swapping war stories and real command scenarios?
BTW. It's good to see a captain standing up to the moronic attentions of (non) security measures.
Skydriller seems to be on the right path.:ok:

As merely self-loading cargo, the number of times I have wished there was a secret flag that could be put into my passport to say 'I am trusted with unsupervised access to TOP SECRET documents, don't you think maybe I'm not a terrorist'...

This pilot did what many of us probably feel like doing just about every time. The best part is, just about wherever you go, the local rent-a-cops have their own peculiarities to "enjoy".

Eg. Remove your jacket and have it also X-rayed, stand on a box regardless of setting off the red light/beeper to be "wanded", pat-downs, shoes off, etc, etc. I know they have a job to do but a little bit of humility would go a long long way. Some aggressive man-hating dyke ordering me to remove my shoes and walk back through is guaranteed to push my buttons.

Eal I really don't know why you hang around this site. Nothing better to do, I suppose. Your posts smack of troll-icity. Anyway, I'm sure the "moron" concerned has read your well-thought-out post and is losing sleep over it this very minute. :rolleyes:

Old words but true: Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and, etc, etc...

Roghead
Let's keep on thread shall we- diabetics belongs elsewhere. Please don't share your 'real Service War stories' with us now. I'm not military, so I have non to exchange (not that I want yours in the first place thank you).

Let's keep in mind that some TSA staff have turned flight bags upside down with Jepp manuals and everything else falling to the floor, because the pilot was on a one-way trip as a deadhead, to fly a cargo plane.

By the way, whoever referred to man-hating dikes (on a previous page) probably meant to say man-hating bull-d*k*s [they are ready to fight you when you look at their attractive girlfriends :mad: ]. The guy who put this in a nutshell in a previous remark should be given an award. :D

This individual was told he "walked too fast." Why did he not just "walk more slowly?" Was it really that difficult? How come I've managed to get through security so many times without such problems? OK, so I have always been the lowly, scum of the earth passenger, but I've never had a problem despite finding some of the "jobsworth types" you all hate so much.

In any case, I apologise for my rash remark and regret any offensive it may have called the individual concerned, in the event he has read this. I will delete it forthwith to save any further upset.

A Commander is responsible for the security onboard the aircraft,
at the airports the security officers are responsible for the security.
How would we as pilots react if they interferred in our routines?

Surely, following the laws of magnetism/induction, any current induced is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic field, so walking through the archway quickly should maximise any magnetic flux created, hence causing it to "beep". It sounds like that, in this instance, the security guard was the same guy that told me "take your hands out of your pockets" as the machine wouldn't work properly.

I was told once that unless you move through the gates with a steady pace; it will go off , even if you don't have any metal on you. so far it seems to come through.

And ehh did you happen to see the capt. walk through first and second time? there might just be a significant speed difference. I don't know and i guess you don't either.

Every day i have to get this done walking to the airplane.... and it get's a bit on my nerves i have to admit. Better not tell anyone that whe have that big Ax behind the seat.... Shall we?

It's just so rediculous....

Pointer :E

I think that we all are responsible for security, or at least, thats what I am told... And most securitypersonel I have met and dealt with are polite, and gets the job done without much hasle.


But there are also those whose behavior is counterproductive, and leave you with a thought that they must have misunderstod something about their role in the big puzzle called an airport.
The companies who make a living at an airport ( airlines, handlingcompanies etc.) are just as much costumers to the securitypersonel, as the passengers. And we should be treated like costumers. Security are for our sake, so that we can feel safe - weather we are boarding a plane, or simply going to work in the airport.

we now have 3 weeks backgroundchecks before we can have an id-card, even if we have been working here for 5 years. So I guess that if the beeper doesnt go off on the second run, then maybe we are not carrying anything.

Whatever caused this incident, it only contributes to the feeling that security is a matter of "them against us", and thats no good to anyone.

spelling sucks, I know....

Good luck to the Captain involved.

Whatever the story, in my limited experience the pilot is usually in the right. Not always the case, of course. Though as the situation becomes clearer, the theory seems to be holding up rather well.

To all you TSA staff and other zealots involved in security, plus
all governments and agencies involved in aircraft security, yes
I mean you Moron!

Airport security is to minimise the chance of someone taking an
aircraft over by force and replaying a 9/11 type situation.

Pilots already have control of all the aircraft they fly, so where
do you fools get off harassing us about our nail clippers etc.

Its pure logic, why hassle the people already in control of the
aircraft. We can kill you all with the flick of a switch, yet you
persist with extra thorough screening, you are making us angry.

Please don't get us angry, we might take the axe from the cockpit and beat some sense into your moronic little brains.

Type it here by all means, but I shouldn't let any of them hear you say this sort of thing! It really would be 'Marigolds on, bend over please!'

Checking of crews is, at times, over zealous, we all know that but then everyone has a bad day so a bit of give and take isn't such a bad thing; and, of course we don't have access to the security staffs' satnding orders or SOPs.

Now, having said that, how much 'give' and how much 'take' is apposite before the invisible line is crossed?

I was taught, for example, that it was prudent for a male crew member to observe the physical search ( padding down ) of female crewmembers after a series of checks were reported as alledgedley being overly intrusive and familiar. When my wife was selected at 'random' for a padding down on the airbridge at IAD, I stopped to watch, and got my ass chewed out by the security people.

I arrived at GLA, ferrying an airplane on a planned rotation to collect another, and was parked on an International stand. No transport available so we had to walk through the terminal to get to domestic to pick up the other jet. On the way through domestic security my flightbag was emptied and I was given a real going over by security, all in front of pax.

Also at own base I've been given a grilling and good going over even though they new me !!!

On the other hand, I have been through a few Italian airports where 'Bongiorno' seems to count as security clearance.

The standard patently isn't and the application of commonsense seems to have evaporated.

It's rather similar to who can access to the flightdeck, but that's another topic entirely!

I'm surprised many here seem to imply that crew should be given special treatment over pax.

The fact is airside is sterile. It doesn't take a genius to realize that a crew member might just be bringing something airside for usage by somebody else somewhere else.

I say over-vigilence is better than the opposite. It might **** some people off - but thats the price we unfortunately have to pay.

Personally I find if you treat people with respect, they often respond likewise.

:} Hang on a minute while I pick myself off the floor. I fell over laughing so hard at that statement.

Those of us who fly these aircraft for a living know exactly how "sterile" airside really is. It's about as sterile as a pig farmers cess pit! :rolleyes: Mind you, just goes to show you how gullible the travelling public is if they believe the cosmetic joke that is called 'security' these days. :yuk:

fact is if you take that attitude - we are all *****

where I come from, believe me, we take security very seriously.

And those of you that fly these aircraft for a living?

What exactly does that mean?