BA Restructuring Plans
 

Was in the coffee shop in Waterworld on Friday with two female companions who decided that they would speak in French for 15 minutes to tune up their ears before going on holiday. The only free seats were next to two men who stopped talking when we sat down. They must have decided that we were all French, assuming that I could not get a word in, and continued their conversation. This is what I believe BA is planning.

All LH flying to be done by mainline pilots.

All SH flying to be reorganised with SH pilots maintaining their current seats*.

*All SH captains above pay point 16 required to bid for LH.

Any LH captains displaced required to bid for SH to maintain capt pay or change seats but on FO pay.

LHR and LGW work to be 'combined'.

All SH eastern European work to be transferred to BMed - see note 1.

All remaining European work to be transferred to GB Airways - see note 1..

All domestic work to be done by BACX - see note 1.

Note 1.

SH BA pilots to remain in their seats with their BA pay - capped at pp16 but to be scheduled iaw the respective airline's sched rules and with their allowance system.

Note 2. Commands currently held by BMed/GB/BACX pilots to be reserved exclusively for those pilots - the remainder (and any growth) to be made available to BA pilots.

I love a good rumour. So what are the GB & BMEd allowances, anybody?

There is apparently an announcement due on Tuesday about restructuring of Gatwick and BA CitiExpress in particular.

This sounds about right

The plans to combine LHR and LGW have been around for ages, it's only the LHR unions blocking it that have stopped it so far.

As a crew member that has to drive past LHR to go to LGW to get a bus from LGW to LHR to operate a LHR flight, (which is then classed as 4 sector rather than 2 sector because of the bus, severly restricting the routes we can operate)
I am very interested in combining the two airports

It does seem an awful waste of resources to have trained crew that cannnot operate direct from another airport

I'd heard the one about all shorthaul going to GB some months ago (similar to the one last year where it was all going to CitiExpress:confused: ) - but the way I heard it was that GB took a detailed look at the operation and turned it down for some reason??

I think the GB/BMed Balpa company councils may have something to say about this. Do you really think this can be agreed without the consent of the pilots in these franchise companies?

If this rumour is true then the BACC believe they can get away with murder.

If true it seems false economy to move a whole load of guys into fleets and lifestyles they will hate.
Maybe its the start of BEA and BOAC again?

ATB, ptc

The very nature of this is that it is a 'rumour network', and therefore you have to take everything here with some degree of scepticism. However, I am inclined to think there may be something in this. The bottom line is that the BACC cannot arbitrarily anounce to GB, BMed or anyone else how things will be. I am sure the folks at BA will have noticed that they are in dire straits and a job with BA is not what it once was.

Any rationalisation of the BA SH operation which inolves GB taking over the running of things is not a case of BA absorbing GB. Therefore GB pilots will not be 'just grateful to have a job' and giving a big thanks to BA for their kind interest in the copmany. There is no way that GB pilots will sit back and let their CC negotiate some naff deal whereby the FOs are shoved to the bottom of a seniority list somewhere. Should some deal be reached with BA, there will be a lot of water to flow under the bridge regarding terms and conditions. Nothing has been agreed among the pilots yet, and therefore the assumptions being made regarding future deals are at best premature.

Surely the most telling remark was at the start of the thread:

"only two free seats in the Wallyworld coffee shop" :rolleyes:

The lesson is obvious...

Also very telling is the assumpation (arrogance) that those who speak French could not possibly understand English....... Did you not get a look at their passes and so hint as to identitys ???

Bussing between LGW & LHR is going to be fun due the new roadworks starting today J12-J15 then!!! loads of fun for two years there then...

Man Flex

Your final comment:-
"If this rumour is true then the BACC believe they can get away with murder"

That is exactly what they have done to GSS - watch out!

To say nothing of EOG/SHAG, but then they do consider themselves above all!!

If all shorthaul Eastern European work to be done by BMed, and all 'remaining' European work is to be done by GB; then what, exactly, is left for BACX except the shuttle (:} ) and one or two domestic routes.

Time to bend over, and recite as follows methinks..."For what we about to receive"
(pass the vaseline again-waddaya mean, it's run out)
"may we be truly truly thankful for the wisdom and benevolence of our management, and the support and good wishes of our 'colleagues' in mainline". :{

Don't worry too much Cornflake. The latest turn of events with regard to terrorist threats and airport security will have such an adverse effect on BA that they will probably have to re-think their plans all over again.

For example; no-one wants to fly BA to the US (or anywhere else) due to the fact that they are the one British airline that have been identified as an Al Queda target. Losses too much to contend with and BA go into receivership. All franchise partners and subsidiaries make a bid for freedom and reform together as the 'United Airlines of Great Britain'. BA pilots are welcomed into new company as junior F/Os at the bottom of the seniority list.

And they all lived happily ever after.

and Man Flex rubs his hands in glee
how sad

BA Restructuring Plans
 

Norman Stanley Fletcher writes
"BA CC cannot arbitarily announce to GB, BMED or anyone else how things will be"

They have done exactly that with the employment protection agreement . The BA pilots fears of BA pilot jobs and commands being lost to GB crews, have for the moment been satisfied . (Algeria). As it stands there will be little or no growth at GB compared to the past , what is the position on the airframe options they have ?
Very little growth at GB equates to very few new commands . The only seniority list a GB pilot should be worried about is the bottom of the GB one , and what is going to happen when the Franchise is to be renegotiated (GSS?).

I suggest you get your CC working with the BA CC , otherwise you will become further and further marginalised .

Manflex I look forward to a payrise and some decent management.....looks like presently serving BA F/o's can only win if BA goes to the wall...

MAGIC2,

"employment protection agreement".

Could you expand on this a little more for those of us who are in ignorance?

maxy101,

All I am trying to suggest is that there is a lot of bitterness and animosity from pilots outside of BA mainline who have seen the BACC dictate their futures for the benefit of BA pilots. I think the disgruntlement stems from the amount of power that the BACC are allowed to weald.

And no it has nothing to do with 'having an inferiority complex'.

Manflex; "For example; no-one wants to fly BA to the US (or anywhere else) due to the fact that they are the one British airline that have been identified as an Al Queda target."

That will be why I can't get a staff ticket to the 'States then! :D

This just in!
 

Have heard just now that the BACC have cancelled the General members meetings at BHX/LGW/LHR scheduled for next week pending the "big" announcement by BA on the 23rd of January.

For those time travellers amongst us,on the 23/1/04 turn your clocks back 30 years. AKA BEA/BOAC......:mad:

Whatever announcements are due the sharks in the "City" have obviously got wind of some news they like.
BA shares up 18p just this morning to 260p, highest they have been for a couple of years I would suggest.

Nothing to do with yesterday's traffic figures then. ;)

Still if the unions keep blocking everything at some stage or another the entire empire will collaspe and well all be out of a job!!!!!


hmmmm i know what id rather,

So lets crack on sort this :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: out and then we can get on with our lives and do what we are paid to do....

Providing a service to the public!!!!

'Cause with out them our pockets dont get lined and we all form an orderley que at the employment offices!!!!


need i say more

nah didnt think so

WX

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!:D :D :D :D This has to be the best unsubstantiated, totally implausible tosh I've seen on pprune in ages!:p Yet still the 'usual suspects' of anti-BA propagandists emerge to denounce the so-called strategy. Apart from the fact that there's virtually nothing in that plan which benefits BA pilots and the BACC would have to be stark raving bonkers to even countenance agreeing to it, lets examine some of the better reasons why this 'plan' is garbage:

All LH flying to be done by mainline pilots
Great idea, but as BMed have a legally binding contract protecting their operation this can't be done.

All SH flying to be reorganised with SH pilots maintaining their current seats*.

*All SH captains above pay point 16 required to bid for LH.

Any LH captains displaced .......

Reorganised how precisely? If all pp16 SH Capts bid for LH there wouldn't be enough vacancies to go round. Plus we'd lose most trainers and all our fleet management (maybe thats not so bad). Besides, you can't 'displace' a LH Capt from his position by bidding, so thats a non-starter.

LHR and LGW work to be 'combined'.

Well BACC would love this, but LHR work to Bidline and LGW work to Carmen and you can't cross-roster. Also LGW is exclusively 737, LHR is predominantly Airbus. Dual basing aircraft would be extremely complex and costly.

All SH eastern European work to be transferred to BMed

BMed only have a handful of aircraft. Whilst they're carrying on with their legally contracted long haul work, where will they find the aircraft to operate a daily St. Petersburg, Kiev, Bucharest, Sofia, Belgrade, double-daily Moscow and quadruple daily Warsaw and Budapest? Not to mention Riga.

All remaining European work to be transferred to GB Airways

And where will GB get fifty Airbusses in a hurry?

All domestic work to be done by BACX

What, on their 16 RJ100s? How will those cope with an hourly shuttle to MAN, EDI and GLA, not to mention the NCL and ABZ services?


This whole plan is absolute, unspeakable nonsense! It seems to revolve around the fact that somehow BA can 'give away' their entire fleet of shorthaul aircraft divvying it up between BACX, GB and BMed, and that those operators can rapidly absorb a vast quantity of aircraft and crew them whilst relying on a shell of BA ground staff to run the operation at LHR T1. There is also the implicit assumption that BA pilots will follow the aircraft and willingly sign a contract which changes their terms and conditions to those of whichever of the three other companies they happen to be randomly assigned to! Fear not franchise colleagues, I've seen some b0ll0cks on this forum recently but this really is in a league of its own!

All LH flying to be done by mainline pilots
Great idea, but as BMed have a legally binding contract protecting their operation this can't be done.

***I believe that what was referred to was 'long' LH, not the BMed op.

All SH flying to be reorganised with SH pilots maintaining their current seats*.

*All SH captains above pay point 16 required to bid for LH.

Any LH captains displaced .......

Reorganised how precisely? If all pp16 SH Capts bid for LH there wouldn't be enough vacancies to go round. Plus we'd lose most trainers and all our fleet management (maybe thats not so bad). Besides, you can't 'displace' a LH Capt from his position by bidding, so thats a non-starter.

***At the moment P1s cannot be displaced but it will be a requirement as pasrt of the cost savings demanded of the pilots.

LHR and LGW work to be 'combined'.

***Combining meant combining all, I say again, ALL, SH work . BA SH, GB, BMed and BACX.

There will be a transition period whilst BMed GB and BACX set up their processes to enable them to integrate the soon to be ex BA a/c and the crews who will be transferred with them. Lots of BA pilots wish to keep their jobs and will be quite happy with the plans.

Instead of all this second rate guesswork, why not just wait until the announcement is made?

Sorry Shaman but its still a load of garbage. BMed work is 'long' long haul. Its further to Ethiopia than it is to Nigeria or the Middle East. BMed is not a short haul operation in any sense. Even their shortest routes match the length of some of our long haul routes. Which leads nicely to your next suggestion that short haul work for BA, BACX, GB and BMed is to be combined. Well as I just explained, BMed aren't short haul in any sense. Furthermore, like BMed, GB have a legally binding contract which BA cannot overturn in order to combine the businesses. GB have made it quite clear they wish to carry on as a franchise and do not wish to be subsumed into BA and there's nothing BA can do about that other than to buy them out of their contract at huge expense. Quite how do you define 'combining' the work when what you're actually suggesting is splitting the work between three seperate and distinct compannies. The plan actually contradicts itself!

***At the moment P1s cannot be displaced but it will be a requirement as pasrt of the cost savings demanded of the pilots

There will be a transition period whilst BMed GB and BACX set up their processes to enable them to integrate the soon to be ex BA a/c and the crews who will be transferred with them. Lots of BA pilots wish to keep their jobs and will be quite happy with the plans.

Now these two points represent nothing less than wholesale, unnegotiated, massive changes to each pilots contract of employment. Notwithstanding the fact that BA cannot implement this without the agreement of individual contract holders, do you for one moment believe that BA pilots would vote for a scheme which robs LH pilots of their commands, forces senior SH Captains to go to LH against their wishes then divides the entire shorthaul operation (737,757,767,Airbus) into three seperate companies (BACX, GB and BMed) with differing pay and conditions? Dream on. No BA pilot would be happy with those plans. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Even if this whole thread wasn't ludicrous enough, what you fail to point out is that this grandiose scheme wouldn't actually do anything to reduce the overheads which are the true problem within BA. It still leaves all the Waterworld dead wood, the militant loaders and drivers, and the cabin crew (who sure as hell won't agree to that), but just loads an extra level of administration and management into the smaller companies. I suggest if you want sensible plans you'd more success writing the grafitti on the back of the bog doors in Compass centre.

BA - What Is Rod Up To?
 

According to www.crewcom.co.uk , Rod Eddington's dog and his children were recently despatched to Perth, Western Australia.

Coupled with the fact the share price has suddenly risen dramatically, this is causing all sorts of speculation.

Can anyone elaborate?

Perth, WA, as well as sharing its name with a well-known Scottish city, is a bonza place with hardly ever a cloud in the sky, an affable population, was the venue for an America's cup defence, is one of the most isolated capital cities in the world and home to some fair dinkum brill micro-breweries.

Rod's got the right idea.

Elaborate enuff? :ok:

Carnage Matey.

So the rumours of bidding for A319 routes out of LGW and that 737s are to be sent back to the regions is cobblers as well then?:confused:

I thought Rod Eddington's from Perth, WA.? Maybe he's just sent the kids to see their grandma? Perth in January would be very nice. :D

Hovis

The A319 is going to LGW as a replacement for the 737s. Even with the most optimistic planning the first three won't start arriving before fourth quarter this year. There's nothing new in that. When the Airbus fleet at LGW becomes sizeable around 2005/2006 then BA will have the opportunity to develop a common base with LHR, but they'll have to grasp the nettle and roster the LGW guys the same way as the LHR guys, something which they are currently unwilling to do. The 737s might end up in the regions eventually (they should never have left), but they'll be being flown by BA mainline crews if they are.

Bealine

I wouldn't attach any credence to the Rod rumour. First it was his dog sent home. Two weeks later everyone thinks his children went too. Next week they'll be saying Rod went with them. This sounds rather like the 'absolute, 100% confirmed fact by groundstaff' rumour that Rod went to Hong Kong when the ground staff walked out, only for it to be revealed he was in Compass centre all along!

Restructuring Plans
 

Time for a new rumour:
How about January 23rd as an anouncement date?

Well Jan 23rd is a Friday - what time's the announcement - 16:59? That'll give people time to cool down over the weekend without making phone calls.

Text message #1 received earlier this week:

"Due to possible major announcement by BA on 23rd Jan, GMMs postponed. Please see forum for further details. BALPA"

Sender: Mobmsgc.com


Text message #2 received shortly after was words to the effect (I can't remember the exact wording since I deleted the message):

The message you received from BALPA earlier was sent to you by mistake. Please ignore

Carnage Matey!

Agreed that the rumours could well be untrue - but don't forget that this is the "Rumours & News" forum!

I would like to congratulate Shaman on his hearing and memory. To overhear an entire conversation in a Waterside cafe, while two ladies chatter away in French, and then to remember every detail is truly commendable.

Airclues

I find it very difficult to believe that a major announcement would come on a Friday. Most of the Waterworlders would have left for the weekend on Thursday to avoid the rush. That’s if don’t ‘work’ from home?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/roobarb/im.../roobarb_2.jpg