Abort Phraseology
 

I have a question for EU or other airline pilots.
The US carrier I work for recently changed the captain's call to "Stop" for a rejected take off.
It had been "Abort" for as long as I recall and was the same at a previous outfit except for a brief time when "Reject" was used.
What is word do you use?

It’s been “Stop” at my airline since I started there.

When did overshooting become going around? I just don't like a statement that could be a command. Go around! We're going around.

We didn't overshoot in the old days, we just ran out of grass and really didn't need to tell anybody because because bouncing over huge sods and spinning around trees was obvious.

Been Stop here for years. Of course, if the captain's doing it, then it should be "Stopping". ;) (Loose Rivets :ok:)

IMO, Stop sounds clearer than Abort or Reject.

Have used all 3.

The case for "Abort" or "Reject" is that the word "Stop" is ubiquitous and frequently spoken at the beginning of comments or sentences, and thus more likely to be used reflexively or unintentionally at the wrong moment. On the other hand, "Abort" or "Reject", are far less common, aren't reflexive expressions, and specifically linked to the act of stopping the aircraft during the takeoff roll, providing their own context and thus self-explanatory. Example:

"We had to stop and return to the gate" vs. "We had to abort/reject and return to the gate". In the latter, you know they were on the runway, began the takeoff roll, but had to stop. The former requires more context to know that they rejected/aborted.

I'm supposing this, but perhaps using a specific word that provides its own context harkens back to when there was a lot more talking on a flight deck during takeoff rolls, with a lot of power managing, and cowl flap setting etc with a flight engineer between the seats getting into the act. Perhaps there were many things they needed to do or stop doing so "stop" was more ambiguous and could be misinterpreted.

Nowadays, it probably doesn't make much difference and as long is everything is initiated within the allowance made for reaction time built into the performance numbers it doesn't matter. Personally, I prefer "Reject" or "Abort" because like "Eject" it's so specific nobody needs to hear it the 2nd or 3rd times before reacting.

After so many years of instinctively calling "abort" you may experience some frustration during training at the pointless change of script. I always chalked it up to some desk-jock Manager in Flight Ops trying to prove he can "make a difference" by changing the SOPs...again. Whatever the reason, it's certain it's not because someone didn't understand the word "Abort" or "Reject".

In addition to initially stumbling over the new script while busy applying the brakes, maintaining the centreline, deploying the reversers etc, if you're the guy on the receiving end, you'll have to react upon hearing "Stop" instead automatically tuning-out and ignoring the word as you've trained yourself to do while driving when heard from the wife sitting next to you commenting on your speeding or as a command to the kids having a Fruit Loop fight in the back seat.

I certainly agree with you. My problem is that "stop" may be and is used in many situations. Stop-so you don't taxi across a runway you have not been cleared on, or stop and leave the box alone until we are both on the same page etc.
Abort has always meant one thing and one thing only in which both crewmembers react accordingly.

But I guess you're not going to be telling someone to 'stop doing [something irrelevant]' on the take off roll itself, so there's not likely to be any confusion.
it is annoying though when things get changed without explanation/context.

Not sure if it's so prescribed by them, but is it just reverting to manufacturer recommendation, or something, maybe?

What exactly are you discussing on the take off roll where you could use the word “stop”?
Have used “stop” for 25 years, never had a situation where its meaning could be misinterpreted.

Always been “STOP” for the whole of my flying career - 5 airlines and 40 years..

Abort phraseology
 

In 19.74 my lot said "Abandon". We changed to "Abort" in 1974. With BOAC/BEA/Regional division integration, we were told to sat "STOP"

Trident 1E re-check, capt Handling, I noticed EGT going wild and yelled " A b a h s t r i p ! ". Ace Skip just stopped but all four of us just giggled for a bit.

Overshoot became Go Around in the eighties. I think one reason was that overshoot (and undershoot) had other meanings in relation to landing short of or over running a runway and, in that context could describe the effect of windshear.

Precisely.

ATC says STOP (Immediately) so that's what should be said in the cockpit too.

If you really want to heat this thread up, ask who has the authority to call "Reject/Abort/Stop" and who should perform it.

For us it's STOP and that's how we brief it "If I call stop I will close the thrust levers, blabla..."

Ah the famous "Stop" versus "Abort" :rolleyes:. discussion .
Here we go again :
Before 1977 each Country had his own phraseology ,but after 1977 (Tenerife) it was unanimously decided to remove the words " Take off" in any transmissions but the actual take off clearance, , therefore all the previous local phraseologies using the words , like Abort take off, Reject take off, Cancel take off clearance, etc, etc. were to be disregarded. Since then (and still valid today ), the Correct ICAO PANS ATM phraseology , to be used is : [call sign] STOP IMMEDIATELY [repeat aircraft call sign] STOP IMMEDIATELY
Reasoning being is that the transmission can be stepped on by someone else and only a portion can be received , and if that part of it contains the words take off , it might be misunderstood.
Remember in Tenerife, one of the main factors was that the Pan am transmissions that they were still on the runway was stepped over and not received by neither the Pan Mm nor the controller. .

In addition we needed a standard wording , and when conducting a cultural check , most non native English pilots from emerging countries with basic level 4 would understand the meaning of STOP . Therefore STOP was chosen. and adding the word ' IMMEDIATELY" , is the standard ICAO terminology to convey urgency and repeating it twice , a standard for safety related messages.

I find it worrying that almost 50 years after this change there are apparently still pilots unaware of the changes and it looks like some ATC training academies and Flying schools still do not train the use that phraseology.

I think everyone is on the same page with respect to the R/T phraseology.

Yeah for sure, just remember to “roll the trucks” whenever you need… trucks? To roll? Phuck Noes.

American ATC is an embarrassment to any professional aviator who has worldwide experience.

If you can’t understand that; it’s called cognitive dissonance.

If you can’t understand cognitive dissonance; you…….. waste of breath.

If you think American ATC is an embarrassment then I reckon your "world" experience isn't all that wide, and most likely on the most well-beaten paths.

Now, if you're upset at pilots who don't use proper R/T phraseology, I'm the first guy to propose a world-wide system of fines for transmitting useless and annoying phrases. What have you done about it except fume?

ATC Watcher..BD has one I forgot about for The List: "Roll the trucks" ($640)

well look at the title of this thread to start with , and the content of the question :
Recently , i.e. in 2023, so it took 45 years or so for this US carrier to comply with the Correct ICAO Phraseology.

On "Rolls the Trucks" , , yes 640 $ at least , I forgot one the most annoying to us Europeans is the " climbing and maintaining " as if you were otherwise going the do roller coaster up and own after reaching your cleared FL ,:E keep up the list !

PukinDog another American who cannot understand the basic terminology of what I typed. I used satire to expose the use of “roll the trucks” in FAAland. Such terminology would be a) laughed at in any other jurisdiction b) be constructively critiqued in a formal debrief c) has sadly led to the loss of lives due to delayed FFS response directly due to miscommunication inside the CONUS.

But yes; ultimately - “America - Phuck Yeah!”

And yeah; most other professionals do regard US ATC RTF as embarrassingly bad. Please don’t take my word for it; ask some other pilots you might have respect for. You may in fact learn something of use.

I understood his question to mean what others' Company SOP cockpit callouts are to command an RTO, rather than what would be transmitted to ATC ("Stopping"....as long as you don't tell us to do it after V1, sorry).

"Climbing and maintaining"...yes, .that's absolutely List-worthy. Very annoying, especially since it reminds me of how dumb I feel anytime I try to understand quantum physics. ($1900).

I respect plenty of other pilots for a lot of things, but on this subject I'll trust my own assessment from experience gained over a 20 year stretch where perhaps 15% was spent flying inside the CONUS. Last time I counted for someone who asked, in and out of appx 90 different countries on every continent that isn't permanently covered with an ice sheet, and couldn't begin to tell you how many others were merely overflown so got a taste of their ATC but never got to sample the local food.

As an IOE Instructor for the outfit it was my job to stress that proper ICAO-script was spoken and spoken clearly. And although you think Americans are the only guilty parties for your ragging, I'll tell you that ICAO-correct words spoken in a guttural Scottish brogue or rapid-fire, clippy Queenslander-ese are just as unintelligible to the guy on listening watch down in Kigali who won't even bother to ask who's calling when he doesn't hear perhaps the only words he knows in English exactly as he learned them. It's all gibberish to him, and for all I know you're one of those he'd simply ignore, and could "uze sum learnin' ".

Also, just a constructive, informal debrief on your attempt at satire: Fair to Poor, sadly. An example of Good to Excellent: Dr. Strangelove.

Call to abort?

"Stop, stop, stop."

Six different airlines, four different types. The same.

Some said either pilot calls it. Some said the F/O brings the problem to the Captain's attention, who then calls it. I didn't care, if I heard "Stop, stop, stop" I would stop (abort!) and find out why in the safety of 'afterwards'.

And being said three times removed any confusion with anything else.

It's just come to mind. The cringe factor has increased over the 53 years since it was uttered.

"To the man in the tower from the man in the ship. Give us the word and I'll giver her the whip."

Yes, really. One of jet jockey's more colourful characters, who later became part of the CAA's flight inspectorate.

Like I said; you didn’t understand my comment PukinDog

Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug :ok:

Yes, the most striking for me was, "we'regoin'intheHudson." Full marks for everything else, but the ATC guy did not seem to comprehend what was perhaps one of aviation's most important communications since the Wright brothers.

About phraseology
 

Junkflyer; Blimey. See what you have started ? Good larf though and most posts worthy of the "What put a smile on your face" thread over on JB, I think.

Actually, after my "Abahstrip", in the coffee shop at Heston, Skip went on and asked what the hell is a "Barstrip"? Quite a few replies from the crew and a few more from those just listening in. Back in the sim, after the abort/abandon,reject, and an immaculate drill, he calmly told me to tell ATC '; minor engine problem, request return to Dispersal '. I n the coffeeshop I was able to defend with "yes, well, what the hell is 'dispersal'-? Some kinda washing powder I think.

Oh & to whoever asked, my last outfit was very clear. Handling pilot said ;" Whoever calls' stop'...........I will"...... etc.

And..........cripes (!) big fan of American R?T. Laid back, clear, precise, no messing and in really busy places like NY, no need to respond. Loved it .

I was criticised on my last Line Check, though, for appalling R/T. When told to "continue with" (etc) ,I never read back freq & callsign ( ended normal two/way conversation but, as it happened, the trip was a mouthful of something like ' company ID, four numbers and a letter ! I just kept saying "Cheers, mate, wilco"... Line Checker not happy.. I think NY Centre were always happy with "See ya BUddy".

Gordomac I am constantly amazed when I read comments like this. This is one of the fun side of PPRuNe , but OK fortunately not everybody here is what he/she claims to be..

As a test to see if it's shelf life has indeed passed one could use it on a busy day at O'Hare in response to Tower's "Line up and wait behind the departing United, traffic on a 3 mile final, keep 'em spooled Break United cleared for takeoff".

It's the only way to be sure.

Inclusive Naming Initiative?
 

Possibly, the organisation in question has been influenced by the Inclusive Naming Initiative, which describes itself: "The Inclusive Naming Initiative’s mission is to promote and facilitate replacing harmful and exclusionary language in information technology". That group has the use of 'Abort' as a term which should be replaced immediately: Inclusive Naming: Word List: Tier 1: Term: abort.

There was much comment on this organisation and its initiative when it was reported upon in The Register: The Register: Inclusive Naming Initiative limps towards release of dangerous digital dictionary

I'm not saying this is the reason, merely floating it as a possibility. It is entirely possible that other people have independently come to a conclusion that the use of 'abort' in the context of early termination of pregnancy makes its use in other fields problematic. Or there could be other, entirely unrelated reasons.

As an FO and NHP many years ago I was involved in an RTO at an exotic Greek location in the middle of the night. Shortly before V1 a large plastic sack was carried by the wind across the runway and was ingested by the RH engine on this A320. I recall the skipper (HP) saying "I think we are going to miss it". That was the last thing I heard before a loud explosion and the world lit up and my nose was pressed against the glareshield. We stopped on the centreline from 140kts+.... The brakes were applied and the skipper selected forward idle. I ran the FIRE ENG 2 checklist from the ECAM and everything remained lit up as the 30 seconds counted down. The skipper had the PA in hand as I put the second shot it. After an agonising few seconds the fire lights went out and everybody started breathing again. The fire trucks had been scrambled without input from us and long story short.... we taxied back to the terminal on the other engine. There were subsequently lots of interviews and an AAIB investigation.

Many months later were were called in for a debrief from the AAIB. The debrief was very thorough and (surprisingly) the RTO had gone totally according to SOP, with one tiny exception.... At no stage did anyone call 'STOP'. There was a lot of F*** Sh!t F*** Sh!t but no order to reject. I guess it just goes to show that as long as everybody knows what they are doing.... it will probably turn out OK.

As far as I was concerned, back in the day, if anyone called STOP (and we were below V1) then I would. Didn't matter if it was the RHS or the pilot positioning on the j/s - or even the hostie (if he/she screamed loudly enough!). And I always briefed that - it's called being a team. Worse that would happen would be a bit of embarrassment or having to wait for brakes to cool - or even having to refuel. None of this nonsense about RHS can't say that above 80kts - it is exactly then, when you are above that speed, that things can become critical and it is even more important to react without delay. That was why Captains were Commanders - to take the decision(s) and, if necessary, take the crap that sometimes came with doing that.
Incidentally for me it has always been "STOP STOP STOP" and I firmly believe that this was and is the best way to initiate an abort. Even my wife will stop the car - or whatever she is doing - when I yell that phrase out!! (Unfortunately a taxi driver in GLA did not and, as a result, we all ended up in hospital).
In my opinion it all went to pot when Big Airways changed the capital C to a small c in their manuals - the accountants then got to be Accountants.........

I fully agree with you!

One error in my Post, that you had correctly in your Post, is that those three repeated words should all be in CAPITALS with no punctuation!!

Another word with ambiguous meaning is 'right'. Could cause embarrassment (or worse) in a twin requiring an engine shutdown:

'Make sure we shut down the right engine.'

Reference to 'Engine 1' or 'Engine 2' would be safer (as the fire handles were labelled on the classic B737s).

I don't believe that an experienced crew would use that word under those circs. It would be "the correct engine" or "Engine #2". All this is just a matter of experience - and training!

I belie it's in "Fate is the Hunter" where the comment to a glum-looking F.O. is "cheer up", followed by a horrible sound of tearing metal.

Great story :ok: And perhaps you've uncovered what might be the best term to use to command an RTO. A reflexive, naturally-occurring "F***S***!!" x 3 may be the quickest, most succinct trigger word of all.

I remember doing a CRM course about 1990 and there was an AAIB inspector on it as well. He said that the most common last word on a CVR before impact was SH*T, in whatever language the crew were using.

"Stop" as the levers are slammed back leaves no doubt.