No one wants to be a Captain.
 

Why airlines can’t get enough captains

Reuters has a fascinating story about how many pilots at the major US airlines are avoiding the upgrade to captain, and it’s causing a problem for airlines:

• At United Airlines, bids for roughly half of the captain vacancies have gone unfilled, meaning United can’t find enough first officers who want to become captains
• At American Airlines, more than 7,000 pilots have chosen not to take the captain upgrade, and the number of people declining the upgrade has at least doubled in the past seven years

So while there’s an overall pilot shortage, the concern is that we’re soon going to deal with a captain shortage, whereby there are enough total pilots, but not enough people who want to become captains.

This link give the new pay rates.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/airl...moted-captain/

Most people want to be a Captain.
But they may not want to relocate to where that Captains position is available. Family, work, life balance issues!

Every man has his price, it's just a question of numbers.

I think the issue is more with seniority, which makes the schedule very irregular for a beginning captain. Especially not great if you have a young family.

I can't be on reserve. Does not work with my lifestyle.

No captain for me
 

I was at a party with a SWA FO a while back. He was not bidding for the LHS till his daughter finished high school. He did not want to miss her sports games and the other things that do not come twice.
Made sense to me.

Yes. And seniority in seat has a much larger impact in the US than I remember it having in Europe. As a senior FO you can make as much as a junior Captain, and have more control over your vacation and days off. Current NB upgrade at both DL&UA is 1 year for those who want it. But holding a line that doesn’t work every weekend, and getting summer vacation or Christmas off could easily take 10 years.

This is turning into a golden age for younger pilots. I know a 23 year old on the 737 with United. If things continue like this and he gets a quick upgrade he could have nearly 40 years in the left seat. Things rarely work out as you expect. But compared to the restructurings of a few years ago this is truly an extraordinary period in the US.

No one wants to be a Captain
 

IN 1964, I was rejected by the BOAC/BEA, UK College of Air Training at Hamble for "not possessing in sufficient strength, all of the qualities looked for in a potential BOAC Captain". I fired back that I had no desire to become a BOAC Captain but dearly wanted to be a BOAC Third Officer so that other dudes could fly me around the world from one room party to to the other,

Head of Selection, ex BOAC Nav not possessing, in sufficient strength all of the sense of humour looked for in a potential mentor,failed to offer me a second try.

Years later, as a BA First Officer anyway, stuck in the Queen's Building at LHR on Trident SBY, I was preparing to leave having been offered jobs everywhere. I was astonished by some folk, one in particular, who was ready to serve at least another 15 years in the RHS because, as he put it, "Surely, it is a BA Command that is the focus-?"

Fast forward ten years and I had long forgotten what it was it was like in the RHS and in Paris, Chemps Elysee (sorry Frenchies for appalling spelling), layover, watching the Tour de France sweep into town, seated beside a US Legacy Carrier SFO who told me that he was on DC10, Based Paris, and wrote his own roster. He had , after decades, just been offered upgrade to Captain.It would be on a smelly 727, based somewhere even more smelly flying a six on two off roster. We both fell about larfing and missed who won the race !

Today however, big chance if you are focused on the LHS. Go for it.

The US system is pretty flexible. It’s quite common for someone to bypass a narrowbody Captain slot for a more coveted widebody FO slot, or even stay as a senior narrowbody FO, while making more money and working less.

I spent six very happy years as a senior widebody FO with a major US Airline, best flying and best quality of life I ever had, only upgrading to the left seat when I had the seniority to do so as a line holder on the same type


Well worth the wait

Exactly the same in BA at the moment.

Wonder what would happen if they advertised for Direct Entry Captains? Offered help with the green card for furriners…:hmm:

Is anyone aware of mandatory upgrades currently in place at major carriers? I thought that American Airlines had this policy at one time (“up or out”) and that a failure during the upgrade process resulted in termination from flying duties.

Certainly for some, myself included, the covid period has highlighted that when all is said and done it's being around friends and family that is most important. Not working every weekend. I'm not afraid to admit that it's completely changed my attitude to work and outlook/aspirations for my career. I know i signed up to a seniority based airline, but i'm simply not prepared to have my home life destroyed in the way it would be by taking a different seat, back at the bottom of a slow moving (almost idle) list. In other words, i'm not prepared to have my life ruined by my work.

The career of piloting is hitting fundamental shifts of the career choice influencing conditions.

1. Flying becomes cheaper and cheaper (lets not get distracted by the price surge after covid due to capacity constraints). This effect becomes even more prevalent when compared to the buying power of the populations. This means more and more people fly, meaning aviation need a higher percentage of young people from the overall population to convince them to become pilots.

2. The entry barriers into the job have increased. 1500h rule in the US, smaller military fleets, no full sponsorships anymore in Europe (although BA seems to revert that)

3. The job has become less attractive due to:
3.a: the work conditions have deteriorated, the job pays less
3.b: the work conditions have deteriorated: the job expects more work, giving less buffer for requesting and influencing private life
3.c: you don't need to be an airliner anymore to travel and see the world, because traveling became so much cheaper (see point 1.)

4. in the talent pool, where aspiring pilots are coming from, most other fitting jobs now offer much better work life balance:
4.a: remote working, home office
4.b: yearly hours account: you can make overtime one week and take 2 days off the next week, if it suits your private plans
4.c: holidays usually when you want and need it and not when the capacitiy planning allows it
4.d: in general not the lifelong external control over your life in terms of weekends, birthdays, important celebrations etc. like pilots have to endure under their assigned duty planning

5. the younger ones are reluctant to enter an industry that has a bad reputation with regard to climat

I am absolutely convinced if the industry wants to keep growing it will have to address these issues: meaning mostly to lower the entry barriers and to fundamentally change the work-lifestyle-balance of crews.

The industry will need to increase the amount of pilots more than just for growth, to offer better lifestyle to convince young people to get into the career. That will mean a fundamental rethink of the training model.

Alternatively you can cover the problem with a lot of money and offer part time to the guys who want more lifestyle.

Many years ago, a First Officer said to me that he felt I had enjoyed the Golden Age of aviation. I replied that no, I had enjoyed the Silver Age, and he would be suffering the Bronze Age. The more I see, the more I feel I was right.

As I’ve posted elsewhere if you think it’s got bad in this industry you go and have a look at every other industry where there has been at least equal and in many cases exponentially worse levels of decline. We’re still comparatively bloody lucky to do the job we do and it beats the living hell out of the vast majority of other jobs out there. Get some perspective.

Sorry Rex, but that is simply not true. I am not talking about pension rules etc. which have worsened for everyone since the demographics just don't add up anymore.

You have to compare with jobs that neccessitate a similar technical expertise, seriousness and commitment to the job as piloting. Work conditions in such jobs have clearly not deteriorated. The opposite is true. Such employers do everything to keep you as the technical expertise is costly to rebuild with a new recruit. I laid out what the terms of such jobs nowadays entail in flexibility, work life balance, etc...

They can't, most companies require time before upgrade (either a year or 500 hours or something like it). And it wouldn't make any difference, because you would still be bound by the same seniority spot, so reserve till you can hold a line would be long. Everything in the US is done by seniority, previous experience give you nothing. Plenty of regionals are offering DEC to new hires if they meet the requirements, but all FOs hired before them will eventually upgrade, and be ahead of them when schedules and vacation are handed out.
I would be very surprised if the airlines will get the DOL to approve EB green card applications.

In the 1960s an airline pilot was the equivalent of a film star, flying a B707 all over the world to exotic destinations that most people would never see in their lives. The 1970s would still have been great, the 1980s it started to go downhill. These days it’s pay for your own type rating and bring your lunch to work. Never mind the Bronze Age, this is the tin age for all but a lucky few.

Catching the end of WW2 in a bomber, riding the post war boom in civil aviation in BOAC or PAN AM and retiring from the B747 fleet in the early 1980s on a good pension would have the ultimate.

Likely we do not live on the same planet! I am with Rex on this one.


.

Direct Entry Captains
 

Hans -

Direct Entry Captain used to be mostly for tin-pot airlines. They didn't upgrade co-pilots to jets or command because management knew they would jump ship.

On the east side of the pond, British Airways is currently advertising for A320 Direct Entry Captains for the Euroflyer operation at Gatwick. See here - https://careers.ba.com/experienced-pilots

... You get straight onto the BA MSL. And you don't need a Green Card.

BA is not currently seeking DECs for BA Cityflyer, but if they were (and for a different reason - I think they've always done it that way) you don't get onto the BA MSL or have automatic rights to the parent company. ... https://careers.ba.com/ba-cityflyer-pilots

LFH

edit to clarify Cityflyer remarks

NO one wants to be a Captain
 

M'Lud, with respect; drifting a bit. Back-door entry into BA has been legit for donks. I know quite a few who flew with BA painted on the side of their aircraft but it wasn't really, BA. Franchise or something. But, they all wound up in BA mainline.

A fave gig of mine was PARC Aviation contract with Transavia Based AMS. I was DEC, 757, wore Transavia uniform, settled into one of the happiest flying periods of my career and wished everyone Gnoodah Morgan. While I looked like a Transavia Captain, I wasn't a real one, was I ? The Company did give us the chance to join. I was told it would be RHS, 737 and about 8 years to get back into the LHS. It was also a really long-shot at getting into KLM.

Back to topic though. Kris has it spot-on. Best tines are over. Different ball game now but still very satisfying for those who want to fly commercial planes for a living.. Not all want to be Captains either.

I’d say the vast majority would prefer to be captain. However, a growing number aren’t willing to do so at any cost, as has been the case in the past.

Combine that with the fact that most new joiners at a US legacy have already been PIC, being captain isn’t really that big of a deal for them.

That went away with the USAirways/AA merger (amongst other miscellaneous archaic things). I believe you were seat locked (meaning you had to stay in that seat) for two years before bidding back to FO.

It is a completely different airline now, and keeps on changing due to a high number of retirements. _Maybe_ one day, we'd free ourselves from this horrible union and rejoin ALPA.

Additionally, these "youngsters" have a very different point of view about QoL. Whereas the Boomers would chase money and CA upgrade at any cost, the new pilots joining the US airlines now care more about time at home, scheduling (roster) flexibility and benefits. You already see the shift happening here at AA ...

​​​​​​​
Its also a shift I am seeing where I am in the land of Oz. F/Os who have young kids are not wanting the responsibility or hassle of command training when at the end of the day it will result in disruption to family life. Even the pilots who have taken a command are saying that they can't visualise themselves doing this job for the next 20-30 years. At the same time that airlines worldwide are making the job less attractive the demand for more pilots is increasing. Eventually they (the airlines) will have to provide the work/life balance that is being demanded by the younger cohort.

Ever heard about something called “sacrifice”?
It is no coincidence the world is in the state it is in.

I'm not sure what you're getting to regarding sacrifice...Should these pilots not have any say in the quantity and quality of work they do? What exactly are they sacrificing for?

The only benefit of a command is money.

I cannot agree with that last statement. I found being ‘my own boss’ was much more pleasant and interesting than being a first officer. The behavior of some captains left quite a lot to be desired, insisting on smoking on the flight deck, poor CRM and dubious personal hygiene were but a few of quite a large number of undesirable traits I remember. I also found the vast majority of first officers to be more pleasant company on the flight deck.

I'm with lederhosen . Whilst the money is nice, setting the tone for the day and running the show provides a great deal of job satisfaction. Admittedly I'm at an airline which has random rosters, but I'm 30 mins from my base and home every night, so have relatively little to grumble about. One thing that is guaranteed about Pilots is that they will always have something to moan about.

Nail. Head. Bang.

The “sacrifice” is the money (and career progression?) that one could make in the LHS, and that sacrifice is made in the name of a better quality of home life. I know plenty of RHS pilots in a good position on a seniority list who have made plenty of sacrifices - and are prioritising home life and cut their cloth accordingly.

If one took the LHS, potentially the “sacrifice” is your home and family life, and for what? More money and to keep an airline running? most of us saw exactly how much airlines and their shareholders value crew during Covid (if we weren’t in any doubt from previous downturn). No doubt there is significant satisfaction to a command but Covid has seen people re-evaluate what is important in a lot of professions.

I know very few people who have left this veil of tears wishing they had spent more time at work. I’ve known quite a few who wished they’d prioritised their family though.

One of the old guard’s arguments to young pups who get the worst end of the seniority stick, in an era where that stick is doubtless more spike covered than it used to be, is that seniority is security and choice… how on earth can they then turn round to them and say “now you are reaping the benefits of seniority as a top 20% SFO, suck it up and be junior again because the company (and my own roster stability) need you to”?

“Career progression”… “The aim is to be a Captain”… we all want to progress - we all want to be better/safer pilots (which does not necessarily mean a command), but we also want to have a sustainable home life/roster and time with our families, time when we aren’t exhausted. The sort of person who would sacrifice their home life and everything else in the name of the LHS/their career and a thank you email from management isn’t someone I would necessarily relish sharing a flight deck with.

To my mind we are seeing another driver that will improve Ts and Cs… which isn’t a bad thing, even if it makes some in the industry (even pilots, bizarrely apparently) gnash their teeth.

One of the things I never understood about the seniority system, how those at the top lap up the cream and those at the bottom have to eat dirt, it's not a company imposed system, it's those at the top of the list looking after themselves. Not taking a captaincy is nothing new, friend in the '80's became senior 727 FO at a base and turned down any advancement because of life style in a city he enjoyed, a move would have meant taking up a captaincy on a F-27 and beginning the progression through DC-9 then 727, all based anywhere in the country.

Part of the reason many are opting not to become captains is to have a schedule which allows them to be home more. Perhaps they value life satisfaction over job satisfaction?

The title should really read Nobody wants to be a Captain [due to seniority-based schedule, where the old and the senior get whatever they want, and the young and the junior get screwed].

I had a LHS in a narrow body for a major legacy carrier. Due to family health issues, I had to commute to/from my base (with unreliable staff travel) to our home. The stress/cost was terrible but nothing on the feeling of guilt that came over me whilst being away from my family during their health challenges. The narrow body operation I flew for was set up for pilots residing inside 60 minutes road travel from sign on….not commuters.

I thought I knew what I was getting into, but the goal posts moved during my training as overnights disappeared (as other SH bases were opened). Luckily for me, I was able to move back to a Wide Body RHS before I had a breakdown. Doable commute, dense flying and stable rostering made the job doable again.

Every person have priorities that change during their working lives. I would never knock anybody that chose family over an extra bar and a LHS,

Agree wholeheartedly.

'When are you going to go long haul?" "when do you get to fly the big planes" (as if a narrow body jet is something to be laughed at) "you should go long haul"

Right, yeah, I will, when my seniority will ensure i'm not doing 5/6 2-crew JFKs every month. That sounds wonderful. not.