BA 321 tail strike?
Some amazing footage indeed... Could this be considered a tail strike by the way?
The voice beyond could be a lil bit less dramatic my humble 2 cents.. :) |
BA 321 tail strike?
Two minutes' checking would have been enough to ascertain that the aircraft in question flew a further rotation t/f Geneva later the same afternoon ...
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Yes the idiot speaking gets way too excited and doesn’t know too much about Aviation I’ve learned.
In one recent video he said regarding lift that the decreased pressure was on the bottom of the wing……… |
Out of interest does anyone know why the spoilers didn’t deploy on the firmer of the first two touchdown’s. I would have thought that this would have kept the aircraft on the ground?
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Possibly because the thrust levers had already been advanced?
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Originally Posted by Doors to Automatic
(Post 11178112)
Out of interest does anyone know why the spoilers didn’t deploy on the firmer of the first two touchdown’s.
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Interesting bit of flying... tailstrike averted by the width of a single strand of hair.
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That bloke gets over-excited by anything, as pointed out by Dave Reid it flew again a few hours later so obviously wasn't a tail-strike :rolleyes:
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I'm glad the guy who made the video was there to explain what was happening!
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I would assume TOGA was already pressed moments before the second touchdown |
Originally Posted by TopBunk
(Post 11178206)
I flew the type for 4 years and don't recall being introduced to what you pressed for TOGA! Anyways, sorry for the distraction.
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Another thing that Airbus has trained out of operators: the input of up-wind aileron on a crosswind landing to keep the wing down and avoid exactly what happened!
Not that much margin on the tailstrike!!! Airbus FCOM "Additionally, the pilot will avoid setting stick into the wind as it increases the weathercock effect. Indeed, it creates a differential down force on the wheels into the wind side." Boeing 737 FCOM "As rudder is applied, the upwind wing sweeps forward developing roll. Hold wings level with simultaneous application of aileron control into the wind." Andraz Airbus has no buttons - you just firewall the thrust levers for TOGA |
The commentary on the video was actually that of BA’s Chief Training Captain.
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11178068)
Two minutes' checking would have been enough to ascertain that the aircraft in question flew a further rotation t/f Geneva later the same afternoon ...
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Tail strike or not (probably not), when the landing went pear-shaped, PF surely did the right thing to get away and go round and do it again.
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What’s most amazing about this video is that there was actually footage of a (mini) Airbus landing. Surely there must have been an A350 or 787 moving somewhere on the apron at that moment, that’s what he normally prioritises? :rolleyes:
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What’s with the inordinate delay in getting the gear up after the GA?
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Originally Posted by H Peacock
(Post 11178369)
What’s with the inordinate delay in getting the gear up after the GA?
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Originally Posted by IcanCmyhousefromhere
(Post 11178326)
Easy on there tiger, we are not all website savvy. I haven’t a clue myself on how to lookup such information. But I can do crosswind landings without twating the tail better then that!
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Originally Posted by H Peacock
(Post 11178369)
What’s with the inordinate delay in getting the gear up after the GA?
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The BBC 6 o clock news just showed the above clip. Apparently they announced with great authority and expertise that the ‘skill of the pilot’ saved the day. Who knew? Not how I would have described it but there you go.
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Airbus do complicate things when applying into wind ailerons. The deflection 1/2’s on touch down. Caught out Lufthansa a few years back. Also in low level gusts it is very difficult not to over control.
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Originally Posted by Denti
(Post 11178394)
Baulked Landing Procedure: gear is not an immediate issue as both engines are still working, wait with that until safely out of harms way.
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Having rocked the video back and forth, I’d say there was definitely a tail strike, slight, but enough to create some dust, which is clearly visible on the video.
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Originally Posted by RTM Boy
(Post 11178443)
Having rocked the video back and forth, I’d say there was definitely a tail strike, slight, but enough to create some dust, which is clearly visible on the video.
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Originally Posted by Greek God
(Post 11178312)
Another thing that Airbus has trained out of operators: the input of up-wind aileron on a crosswind landing to keep the wing down and avoid exactly what happened!
Not that much margin on the tailstrike!!! Airbus FCOM "Additionally, the pilot will avoid setting stick into the wind as it increases the weathercock effect. Indeed, it creates a differential down force on the wheels into the wind side." Boeing 737 FCOM "As rudder is applied, the upwind wing sweeps forward developing roll. Hold wings level with simultaneous application of aileron control into the wind." Andraz Airbus has no buttons - you just firewall the thrust levers for TOGA is down) Airbus does recommend exactly the opposite of what you suggested. Airbus FCTM does say for a crosswind landing: LATERAL AND DIRECTIONAL CONTROL FINAL APPROACH In crosswind conditions, a crabbed-approach wings-level should be flown with the aircraft (cockpit) positioned on the extended runway centerline until the flare. FLARE
As a consequence, this may result in touching down with some bank angle into the wind (hence with the upwind landing gear first). |
Airbus FCOM "Additionally, the pilot will avoid setting stick into the wind as it increases the weathercock effect. Indeed, it creates a differential down force on the wheels into the wind side." Boeing 737 FCOM "As rudder is applied, the upwind wing sweeps forward developing roll. Hold wings level with simultaneous application of aileron control into the wind." What eagle 21 correctly quotes from Airbus is a roll input designed only to correct downwind drift across the runway due to the crosswind whilst established/establishing in the flare. So, nothing to do with Airbus training anything out of operators. It’s just not how their product works, and in any event, what you see in the video is just as likely in a Boeing! |
If there had been a tailstrike wouldn’t there have been a comment from atc and a runway inspection plus a local alert for the airfield. I didn’t see or hear any of that on the video.
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Originally Posted by RTM Boy
(Post 11178443)
Having rocked the video back and forth, I’d say there was definitely a tail strike, slight, but enough to create some dust, which is clearly visible on the video.
Look V CLOSELY - there is no tail-strike. It gets clean away - just. And Just is clean enough. She went on to complete her Rotation - and that wouldn't have happened if she'd dragged her arse. |
It is also noticable that at the tails closest position to the runway the main wheels are actually off the ground.
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Can I ask, does anyone know what the wind was at the time of the event
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Originally Posted by black pudding
(Post 11178528)
can i ask, does anyone know what the wind was at the time of the event
sa 31/01/2022 11:50->metar cor egll 311150z auto 32017g27kt 300v020 9999 ncd 08/m03 q1025 nosig= sa 31/01/2022 11:20->metar cor egll 311120z auto 32014g24kt 9999 ncd 08/m02 q1024 nosig= |
Pilots like to automatically target 15° nose up pitch attitude on a go-around without consideration of how close they are to the ground. A lower initial pitch while close to the ground could prevent a tailstrike. Then continue the pitch increase to 15°.
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11178386)
Fair point, though my comment was aimed not at the OP but at the morons at BigJetTV, who reported it as a tail strike (without even a question mark) and who can hardly be accused of not being web-savvy. They could easily have checked.
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Airbus have a baulked landing procedure which targets an initial 10 degrees pitch for the reasons quoted near the ground. It has got a specific name as it is some time since I was involved with Airbus fbw types (A340/380). DaveReiduk is one of the self proclaimed pprune ‘experts’ that swaggers around as though he owns the site. The classic keyboard warrior calling others morons. You have to laugh at the inanities of the Internet. Personally I have a lot of empathy with plane spotters: they are enthusiasts which is infectious. I was one in my youth and it led to a 40 year flying career. Fair play to them.
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‘Toga 10’ if my memory serves me well being an Airbus low altitude go around procedure. Current Airbus pilots can correct me.
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The baulked landing 10 deg pitch, sometimes called 'TOGA-10' was actively discontinued by the OEM years ago. Not sure it was truly their creation in the first place.
Pitch and power works. Which of them comes first defines how elegant is the transition towards the result. There is a reason we learn about the left side of the power required/available curve. |
Originally Posted by olster
(Post 11178613)
DaveReiduk is one of the self proclaimed pprune ‘experts’ that swaggers around as though he owns the site. The classic keyboard warrior calling others morons. You have to laugh at the inanities of the Internet. Personally I have a lot of empathy with plane spotters: they are enthusiasts which is infectious. I was one in my youth and it led to a 40 year flying career. Fair play to them.
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