Looking closely at the lower edge, definitely looks like a little bit of damage? (Both engines) It could be heat haze or graininess of the image though.

Can hear the master warning going off after localizer established on the video, sounds like dual engine failure. Very sad day ....

That twitter post is saying it attempted a belly landing but went around? Were there reports of a landing gear malfunction requiring a belly landing?

The pictures from post 19 shows one of the engines....all the front blades are intact....no power at impact...?

It does look like that would fit the reports as well as the photographs and perhaps the engines made their imminent departure apparent which explains the truncated GA

Image on AVH shows much reduced black marks on engines and gear down, unclear what sequence the images occur in.

I think the image on AVH is not from today, it is inconsistent with the images from PlaneSpottersPK.

Danger of fasting for aircrew is dehydration and low sugar.

No RAT in that photo I don’t think it’s related.

AH usually pretty good for detail so no clue why Simon uploaded that.

Indeed; also doubting someone would take the time to add "Through the lens" titles....

The Airblue crash in 2010 happened with a highly religious captain who was fasting, and diabetic. Regulators should definitely mandate regular meals for pilots before and during flights!

U get a master warning at 700 ft if the gear is not lowered. It's kind of difficult to FORGET..

It’s easy to leave the gear down and it’s been done more than once, especially if the PM gets distracted during the ‘gear up’ call. However an A320 would be very unhappy indeed if you tried to land with the gear up. Was the belly landing intentional?

And I’m struggling to understand going around from a belly landing as it seems the inevitable damage to the engines left them with a double flameout.

Unless somehow (and I don’t know how - they forgot AND the gear config failed AND they didn’t do the checklist) they landed without the gear and then were shocked into going around at the resulting cruncher.

The pictures with the supposedly scraped engines seem to show a whiff of white smoke (oil?) coming from below the nacelles.
Could the black marks also indicate thermal damage as opposed to or on top of scrapes?

#2 certainly looks a bit banged up.

+1 on at least one engine without rotation on impact.

That image from "PAF Falcons" Twitter (copied onto the AVHerald page), was preceded a few minutes before by this completely fake CGI image

Twitter

So AVHerald, do us a favour and remove the fake news.

They probably found out about the gear not down on climb out. Which is why I assume they conducted the missed app, thought it was a just a bad touchdown. Certainly is not an engine I would be wanting on the wing for a gear up arrival. Let alone slamming a CFM on the deck.

If the two photos by Plane Spotters Pakistan (Post #60) are of the accident a/c on the accident flight - rather than simply on a previous, routine air test - the deployment of the RAT suggests failure of both engine-driven generators. The accessory gearboxes that drive each one are mounted on the bottom of each engine.

Re. Bob Viking's post #59, and the altitude trace on Dave Reid UK's post #55, the FR24 altitude data has to be interpreted with care. I think you may find it is referenced to an altimeter sub-scale setting of standard (1013 hPa). The 0955Z METAR gives a QNH of 1004, and the airfield elevation is 100 ft. Therefore, an altimeter set to 1013 hPa on its sub-scale would have read about 350 ft on the ground.

Agreed, but still doesn’t explain how they managed to land it with the gear up.

Chris Scott
 

You’re absolutely correct and I was dumb not to think of it like that.

TBH I am not a regular user of FR24 (I only use it to check on status of flights I’m waiting for!) so assumed it was showing AGL.

I will learn to keep my mouth shut in future!

BV

You are exempt from fasting when you are travelling. Unfortunately some people don't adhere to this because it means making up the lost fast later on = a longer Ramadhan.

I’m flabbergasted there are survivors to be honest.

I don’t think that photo earlier in the thread is of the airframe today.

RAT was extended, on pictures on social media you see plumes of white smoke coming from the engines.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYoKqHRX...jpg&name=large

I personally never fast when Operating a Flight, and Yes when Traveling or Sick you are exempted from Fasting”

I'm sorry, but no it isn't. I have worked with several otherwise very competent Middle Eastern colleagues who (in an office environment) were becoming almost completely useless by the end of Ramadan. It is not so much the fasting during the day, but the fact that most of the night is spent eating rather than sleeping, with the cumulative sleep deprivation. Flying is a job that requires maximum alertness at all times, and such practices are not too conductive to having a well rested crew.

But are you not supposed to add on the days missed to the end of Ramadan? When your family and friends are celebrating. Nobody would want to do that would they?

Responsibility is what is required, I have seen senior commanders and FOs fasting on ULH, it’s crazy and highly irresponsible behavior- Yes you can fast after Ramadan to make up the missed days.

Quoting this tweet: Does this make any sense please?..

Edited KHI ATC audio from a LiveATC.net clip posted above. It's a .zip file which will open on most computers but not on most phones or tablets.

Sounds like the first transmission from PK8303 is something like 'We are comfortable and we can make it inshallah'.

What warnings do A320 flight crew get for low oil quantity and/or low oil pressure in the engines?

Fasting and flying do not mix ! Never allowed a fasting pilot to be PF ! Situation worst in a high demand event !

It is more reminiscent of posters (thankfully a minority on this site) who want to climb all over a disaster in oreder to be able to say when then the report comes in: "Look, I called it within an hour of the event."

Like gamblers, they never report their losses; only their wins. If it turns out that there was some equipment or operational failure they won't e around to defend their initial assessment.

Then you have the point-scorers, who seem to want to make some sort of point about a religion or other ideology.

Potentially more than one hundred people died today. That is a major human tragedy.

There will be an intense and deep investigation. The pilots had families and friends. To speculate at this this stage that the pilots may have been less than professional is an insult.

Rein yourself in. There will be plenty of time for blame when, you know, an investigation occurs?

Edited to remove a post to which I was not actually responding. My apologies to the poster alainthailande whose post I inadvertently had quoted.

The aural warning at 2:51 in that recording would be at 09:32:51 Zulu, since the recording starts at 0930Z.

According to the timestamps from the FR24 data they reached the minimum altitude on the first landing attempt at around 09:34:25Z

So the aural warning seems to have started at least 1:30 minutes before the first landing attempt, when they above 1400 feet (not sure exactly how high they were, the FR24 data is incomplete, it shows 1400ft at 9:33:30Z, and they don't give any earlier data yet).


So it seems something went wrong quite early. I understand the landing gear not down warning should start at 750ft AGL, and according to the data they were higher than that, so not sure what that chime was.

The gear doors appear closed so possibly an attempted gear up landing which was misjudged. The aircraft floats further down the runway then anticipated, crew realise they are running out of room and decide to go around just before the aircraft touches. The lower front sections of the engines appear relatively undamaged suggesting a nose up attitude during the ground contact.

I have flown PIA from Islamabad to Karachi during the month of Ramadan. Aircraft lined up for departure just as the sun set and Iftar was declared. Take-off was delayed until all pax, cabin and flight crew had a drink and a sweet. Although I don't know for sure, I'd wager that the flight crew are allowed to hydrate themselves due to the safety critical nature of their jobs. You will find that the fast is something you should aim to accomplish only if you can. It is not as mandatory as some people might have you think.

I'd be very cautious about trying to get an exact time off a media clip including those of LiveATC.net Usually these serialized audio archives have some intentional overlap between the segments so you can edit across the break without losing anything. In fact, if you merge say the 0900Z segment and the 0930Z segment, you will often get repeated audio unless you trim it out. But, this is not consistent from location to location in my experience.

Also, some streams seem to give different timestamps when played on different devices as I've observed here in the past. Legacy codecs on the machine perhaps?

I scrubbed the 0900Z LiveATC tape but didn't find anything relevant about PK8303. Unfortunately one of the scanner channels had an open squelch with noise for much of the time on the last part of the clip.

In the Engine System Display (bottom screen of the two in between the pilots) you have readings of oil quantity and pressure, which depending on the value can blink or change colour to attract the attention of the crew. And of course you have ECAM procedures that may be triggered.

No then it was not Ramadan but Shabb e Bràt,

Thanks, I was wondering, given that there is a photo showing what could be oil smoke from both nacelles which themselves are very dirty around the bottom of the cowling area, if the loss of thrust during the go-around could be due to engine run down from loss of lubrication. I'm finding it hard to believe that there was a belly landing on the first approach, and I wondered if there was oil loss could it have started at the departure end of the flight and gradually lost oil during the whole trip. How easy is it to leave the oil filler caps off?

Posters,

Remarks about race and religious rituals have no place here. We're here to discuss aviation, not race and religion....

Another CCTV Video:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263858937138483200