Without upsetting anyone, it looks to me like crew incapasitation, as a contributing factor somewhere during the flight.
I don't know about the Airbus, however it seems to me the airbus philosophy is over complication. When I advance the throttles on an aircraft, i want the power i requested. No if or buts. Period. Old fashioned Dinosaur? Probably. |
Apart from Jetstar I can think of an Air France incident some years ago which was very similar (hot and high into CDG and failure to push all the way to TOGA ending up rather lower than intended). Go-arounds as we have discussed many times are one of the most often poorly performed basic manoeuvres.
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Originally Posted by lederhosen
(Post 10790851)
Apart from Jetstar I can think of an Air France incident some years ago which was very similar (hot and high into CDG and failure to push all the way to TOGA ending up rather lower than intended). Go-arounds as we have discussed many times are one of the most often poorly performed basic manoeuvres.
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Originally Posted by freshgasflow
(Post 10790729)
Also tower talks about belly landing, when no such thing was hinted before. Is it possible that tower has seen something untoward for them to suggest belly landing ?
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Originally Posted by Sriajuda
(Post 10790706)
Well, maybe they had a scrape. But apparently their engines were able to spool up and provide TOGA thrust. So why schould they both, quite simultaneously, suddenly cut out?
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Originally Posted by lederhosen
(Post 10790851)
Apart from Jetstar I can think of an Air France incident some years ago which was very similar (hot and high into CDG and failure to push all the way to TOGA ending up rather lower than intended). Go-arounds as we have discussed many times are one of the most often poorly performed basic manoeuvres.
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ʜᴏᴛ ᴀᴘᴘʀᴏᴀᴄʜ ⇨ ᴄᴀʟʟ ɢᴏ ᴀʀᴏᴜɴᴅ ⇨ ɢᴇᴀʀ ᴜᴘ ⇨ ᴄʟɪᴍʙ ɴᴏᴛ ᴇsᴛᴀʙʟɪsʜᴇᴅ ʙᴇғᴏʀᴇ ɢᴇᴀʀ ᴜᴘ ᴛᴏᴜᴄʜᴅᴏᴡɴ ⇨ ᴄʟɪᴍʙ ᴏɴ ᴛᴇʀᴍɪɴᴀʟʟʏ ᴅᴀᴍᴀɢᴇᴅ ᴇɴɢɪɴᴇs |
Originally Posted by FIRESYSOK
(Post 10790869)
Surely they saw the first attempt with no wheels down. A belly landing is not something a control tower would normally ask about after a mayday call. This report will make interesting reading.
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Many technical questions being asked about the A320’s protections and warnings.
For those not familiar with the FBW Airbus types a Google search of “A320 CBT YouTube” provide some good presentations that will give you a better understanding of the warnings an A320 will give you, the protections it can provide, and by default the ones it doesn’t, particularly in Alternate Law or Direct Law, which is what it is likely to default in to with multiple failures, why the RAT extends automatically, what a continuous uncancellable warning horn is likely to be for close to the ground etc. |
Surely they saw the first attempt with no wheels down. A belly landing is not something a control tower would normally ask about after a mayday call. This report will make interesting reading.
Is there any chance of getting a A320 near a runway from 3500? 5 miles out with out the gear down ? Warnings where more likely to be flap over speed while pushing nose down ? ATC would be saying something if they saw an aircraft going through 500 ft with gear still up I’d hope? |
Originally Posted by bedsted
(Post 10790798)
I think you will find that all SOP's call for gear up after a positive rate of climb
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The gear was certainly down the second time as the video clearly shows. So I cannot yet see any evidence that it was unserviceable or that it was not down the first time until it was selected up on deciding to go-around. By not properly engaging TOGA the engines would not spool up and the flight director commands would not provide guidance. The aircraft might then sink low enough to strike the runway. We don't yet know that is what happened, but others have got close on previous occasions. Nothing is sure, but it would fit with what we do know so far.
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Originally Posted by Toruk Macto
(Post 10790889)
Surely they saw the first attempt with no wheels down. A belly landing is not something a control tower would normally ask about after a mayday call. This report will make interesting reading.
Is there any chance of getting a A320 near a runway from 3500? 5 miles out with out the gear down ? Warnings where more likely to be flap over speed while pushing nose down ? ATC would be saying something if they saw an aircraft going through 500 ft with gear still up I’d hope ? my company specifically states that a missed approach is not evidence of poor skill. -its evidence of good judgement. ATC aren’t looking at your gear; another pilot might; but it’s not the kind of thing you’re looking out for... i wonder how much these folks had flown in the last few weeks; I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a factor, as well as the authority and recency gradients in CRM speak. what a cluster.. |
Automatic gear extension.
Originally Posted by neilki
(Post 10790768)
theres no ‘automatically extend the gear option’
The only ‘protection is the gear can’t be extended over 10k above max extension speed |
WhatsaLizad?, #236 :ok:
Anything amongst the previous speculations to negate a simpler view; oil leak from both engines after previous servicing. Hence under cowl staining, engine failure after GA climb out. Or have I missed a post which actually confirms that the aircraft engines hit the ground. |
Ollie Onion.
Yours is the only explanation that makes sense to me. Very possible. |
Originally Posted by safetypee
(Post 10790922)
Or have I missed a post which actually confirms that the aircraft engines hit the ground.
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Originally Posted by safetypee
(Post 10790922)
WhatsaLizad?, #236 :ok:
Anything amongst the previous speculations to negate a simpler view; oil leak from both engines after previous servicing. Hence under cowl staining, engine failure after GA climb out. Or have I missed a post which actually confirms that the aircraft engines hit the ground. https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/632693-pia-a320-crash-karachi.html#post10790064 If you look at the nacelles it is clear this wasn't just an oil leak. They are torn on the bottom. Those pods 100% scratched the tarmac. At a nose high attitude. |
I watched the Blancolirio channel, and from the evidence he presents it seems almost certain that they landed without the gear down, scraped the engines and then took off again and crashed when the engines failed. It seems the initial contact damaged both engines, but unfortunately not enough to stop them from getting back into the air. Here is a fairly clear video of the crash itself and the aftermath:
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Originally Posted by DIBO
(Post 10790939)
Have you read post #165? 'Confirm' as in 'officially' maybe not yet, but strong indications from onboard eye-witness that some metal structure touched the concrete "...the jolts and sparks due to the friction were so severe that the pilots lifted the plane again". And engine cowlings are a good candidate, within field of view of the pax.
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