This is a classic case of closing the gate after the horse has bolted. Mentioned above, this should have been the rule 3 months ago.

Oh wait, they were on the ball 3 months ago. Pax from fights from the epicentre, were given written instructions for what to do in the event they felt unwell. Then sent on their way. I pressume this was advice from WHO, as well as clowns here.

If this is how the academics function, God help us all.

I weep and have wepted in despiir since.

God give me strenght to endure this.

Unfortunately, everyone in this crisis is behaving exactly true to form. Authoritarian governments tighten the screw even harder. And expect to be praised for doing so. Greens want to shut down all post-industrial revolution activity. And little bad-tempered red-faced men who dislike people using public footpaths near them now pretend to be supporting the NHS!

There's also another side to the problem. How many countries grant admission to arrivals from the UK now, bar their own nationals who are mandated to quarantine after arrival from the UK? I can think of a good few who don't let in anyone other then their nationals, let alone arrivals from what sadly became one of the countries with the worst epidemic profile in Europe.

I have to agree.

The future of society is in the hands of the young and fit, not the dead and dying.

Please define the point between these.

I'm not sure that I'm over the hill yet and on the decline

Face it guys, it is NOW time for plan B. I hope you worked on it. I got burned on 911, devastating, started from zero. This is much much worse.

And some of the posts in this forum are also in their own way 'true to form'.

I can figure why the UK government didn't do the right thing and restrict aviation travel sooner. But that was a big decision and and hindsight makes it simpler to judge that now. The public take the blame too - they would have been an outcry from those wanting travel in January and February. The media would have had a field day.

What I can't figure is why borders were not seen as a control point when the public lockdown commenced. It seems illogical not to have introduced stronger authorative controls at that time.

Having persuaded the UK public to generally comply with the lockdown, to shatter the economy, and sink many futures then it wouild be irresponsible *NOT* to put in some fairly heavy border enforcement as part of the overall controls that will be needed to catch and stop a second wave.

The aviation industry is in tatters. The public may not want to fly. It's not clear that they wlll be willing to fly domestically or use long distance public transport to the extent they were used to before the lockdown. If that's the case then the demand for international travle will surely be no better. Given the shift in economics both at the supply end and consumer end the public may not be able to afford to fly.

But worse it has to be mindful that history may become quite brutal - aviation as a sector may get the blame. Any airline CEO complaining about government international travel restrictions has to bear in mind that the governments they are lobbying are carrying the can for 10's of thousands (and counting) of excess deaths. The silent majority of the public may direct their wrath at more than just their governments. The story may get turned into an accusation that the aviation sector was selfishly responsible for spreading the disease that killed peoples jobs and futures along with huge numbers of actual mortalities. So railing against these quarantine restructions may well provoke a damaging response.

Wow.

Does anyone actually know what a quarantine is?

Close your borders to non-citizens/non-residents. 14 day quarantine, enforced, for those repatriated.

Get on top of this thing while you can. At any point this could take a turn for the worse. Or not. Feel lucky?

"The second wave of the 1918 pandemic was much more deadly than the first. The first wave had resembled typical flu epidemics; those most at risk were the sick and elderly, while younger, healthier people recovered easily. By August, when the second wave began in France, Sierra Leone, and the United States, the virus had mutated to a much more deadly form. October 1918 was the month with the highest fatality rate of the whole pandemic"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

Anyone banging on about "herd immunity" is being economical with the facts. It might work - if it does not mutate. Want to make the call that it won't?

Good luck and stay safe.

A 14 day quarantine is one thing.

With respect, how do you enforce a quarantine on a stag party returning from Alicante??

stop quoting the Spanish flu. It’s largely irrelevant. In 1918 healthcare was poor/non-existent for many, sanitation and living conditions were much poorer, no hygiene control or education to speak of, poor diets and generally poor health for many resulting from that large war that just happened. Unless you want to start quoting the Black Death and we can all burn cats and check our humours then please give over about the Spanish Flu.

This will be the same young and fit that are too scared to venture out and expect to be paid (forever?) to stay at home.

I suspect the UK government is trying to swerve around the controversial issue of having to create some checks at the border on the island of Ireland.

Antonov225 it may well be you that is wrong. There are many similarities with 1918 including the cytokine response. Both were / are epidemics of nosocomial pathogens with much common epidemiology

The issue over what to do now is that the UK Goverment is applying the official secrets act to the science as are the Chinese so we cannot see, test, question or develop the facts. I search in vain for a precedent except in the military field.

Clearly they did too little too late and can't admit it, now finding themselves in an unenviable situation where they are clutching at straws and denying scientists save a handful of mostly civil servants the ability to help

Closing borders was necessary in January. It would still help but unsupervised isolation against an inability to track and trace the current possible 30000 new cases a day is just window dresing

You cannot base anything on something that happened 102 years ago including the analysis of the virus as that’s only accurate at the time. It’s of minimal use to compare the 2. Population heath and medicine is the key factor. Unless you want to count the current deaths from smallpox too.....

Re slipping/night stopping crews and

That's not actually a universal truth.

FYI there are some places with quite draconian inbound quarantine regs where slipping crew are not exempt.

Most certainly a month ago at a certain far East destination slipping crews were restricted to staying at the airport hotel - they were escorted direct from arrivals to that hotel and were confined to their rooms for the duration of the stay - no going out of the room at all, so for example food was delivered to room..

Some countries have been taking this a bit more seriously than others.

Re Hunterboy: "The post flight review of this crisis is going to be worth reading."


What? Like the Russia Report, or the SAGE Minutes? If ever published (v unlikely), all the interesting bits will have been redacted and the bulk of the public will already have forgotten

Well said that individual.

Have you ever tried to talk sense with a yank on this? I think the poms are going the same way. Just sit back and watch the car crash. I blame Murdoch, feeding them the line.

Antonov225 sorry to come back but you are wrong. The epidemiology is little changed since 1918 and in 1918 the management was hand hygiene, social distancing and masks. Failure to close borders was known in 1918 to be an error. Mass events such as the Philadelphia peace loan rally was done against Federal advice and the medical officer for Manchester effectively repeated the current lockdown rules in spring 1918

Health has little effect on transmission, and everything I can do on my intensive care unit merely prevents a small proportion of deaths

It is because the epidemiology I was taught at medical school in the 1970s applied in 1918 and applies now allows the medical profession to say the politicians are wrong. You are correct we have much to learn, especially about the phytogenetics which may explain differing death numbers in different countries, but the genetics and mutations and intracellular function do not effect our management at this initial stage of infection