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-   -   Ryanair to cut 3,000 jobs (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/632072-ryanair-cut-3-000-jobs.html)

Adambrau 1st May 2020 06:39

Ryanair to cut 3,000 jobs
 
And on it goes.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...risis-11981526

kpd 1st May 2020 07:59

O Leary predictions for the industry
 

Originally Posted by Adambrau (Post 10769065)


O Leary prediction for the industry -" Ryanair said its flights will remain grounded until "at least July" and passenger numbers will not return to 2019 levels "until summer 2022 at the earliest".

Livesinafield 1st May 2020 09:32


Originally Posted by kpd (Post 10769145)
O Leary prediction for the industry -" Ryanair said its flights will remain grounded until "at least July" and passenger numbers will not return to 2019 levels "until summer 2022 at the earliest".

For once I agree with O'Leary, think hes got that spot on, how some airlines think there is going to be any demand for air travel this year I do not know.

MCDU2 1st May 2020 10:09

Click bait, change the title. You missed the "Up to". Most aren't his employees anyway and are employed through intermediaries. Its like when he opens a new base and the magic number is up to 1,000 new jobs to be created. These magic new jobs have never been quantified as far as I can see.

BoeingLudo737 1st May 2020 10:27


Originally Posted by MCDU2 (Post 10769283)
Click bait, change the title. You missed the "Up to". Most aren't his employees anyway and are employed through intermediaries. Its like when he opens a new base and the magic number is up to 1,000 new jobs to be created. These magic new jobs have never been quantified as far as I can see.

1000 new jobs created refers to direct and indirect jobs i.e. airport staff so on and so forth.

macdo 1st May 2020 10:31

Also threatening to shut Lauda Vienna base unless staff take pay cut and new T&C's.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ry...101413052.html

Superpilot 1st May 2020 11:24

Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

I fear this is MOL's 'why should they be paid so much, they're just glorified bus drivers' moment.

Contact Approach 1st May 2020 11:43


Originally Posted by Superpilot (Post 10769371)
Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

I fear this is MOL's 'why should they be paid so much, they're just glorified bus drivers' moment.

If only! I've found a large % of those joining RYR will sacrifice themselves for next to nothing just to fly the shiny jet. It really is this industries downfall. Lemmings...

hec7or 1st May 2020 11:44


Originally Posted by Superpilot (Post 10769371)
Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

Valid point, but who will define " when this is all over"? Will it be when a vaccine is rolled out or when Social Distancing ends or when the economy recovers?

Superpilot 1st May 2020 12:25

When this is all over = when social distancing measures are completely relaxed for air travel. And, though we love to accuse those at the bottom of the ladder of taking up any old offer, the reality is not always quite so. Besides, that's for those on the top end of the ladder to address and ensure!

BoeingLudo737 1st May 2020 12:47


Originally Posted by Contact Approach (Post 10769394)
If only! I've found a large % of those joining RYR will sacrifice themselves for next to nothing just to fly the shiny jet. It really is this industries downfall. Lemmings...

You should be ashamed of yourself and banned from this forum.

eiffel 1st May 2020 13:08

Do we have details by categories for these 3000 job losses? (FD, CC, ….) What is the split between mainline and Buzz?

Airbubba 1st May 2020 13:56


Originally Posted by eiffel (Post 10769474)
Do we have details by categories for these 3000 job losses? (FD, CC, ….) What is the split between mainline and Buzz?

From today's memo:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b611c45cf4.jpg

PilotLZ 1st May 2020 18:10

I have a sneaky feeling that this is a step towards the "old" employment model of RYR, when only the highest-standing TRE, TRI etc had direct contracts with the company. Now's the opportunity to axe the majority of direct contracts, hence get rid of pretty much everyone who gets a base salary, regardless actual flight time. And then, as demand picks up, everyone will be hired on a zero-hour contract with a reduced hourly rate. Quite possible, I think.

Sqwak7700 2nd May 2020 02:36


Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!
Thats like telling a man stranded in the dessert that if he comes across a person Offering water, he should refuse unless it is Evian. You are funny.

Might want to brush up on understanding supply and demand. The coming years are gonna be reeeeeeeeaaaaly tough for people of your mind set.

OMAAbound 2nd May 2020 06:43


Originally Posted by Superpilot (Post 10769371)
Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

I fear this is MOL's 'why should they be paid so much, they're just glorified bus drivers' moment.

Many people, I and most likely yourself included, will have a different opinion on this when the mortgage company are banging on the door wanting the house back!

The Simple answer is ‘Supply and Demand’

OMAA

Tommy Gavin 2nd May 2020 06:47

Is it 3000 actual jobs or does it also include the self employed work group?

fab777 2nd May 2020 07:53


Originally Posted by midnight cruiser (Post 10769421)
, once the state aid crack cocaine wears off. Karma to you CA.

Ryanair living mostly on subsidies from local communities and fee returns from airports, that is a funny comment.

lederhosen 2nd May 2020 11:46

Using a rough metric of five crews per short haul aircraft that sounds like about a reduction of 100 planes from a fleet of 450. This is in the same ball park percentage wise as BA's announcement of 12,000 redundancies. So two big players are saying they expect to be operating at around 75% the previous level, once things start up again. Obviously this is a best guess as nobody has any idea what things will look like post lockdown. Given the possibility of little or no foreign tourism for the rest of the year and curtailed business travel this might even be a bit optimistic in the short term.

wisecaptain 2nd May 2020 12:43

So with Union recognition in RYR , how will they implement LIFO with all the different bases ?
Im guessing with base closures there will be by seniority, a lot of base re-allocation and commuting required so as to keep the seniority system intact.
Will RYR honour seniority bearing in mind the importance of losing your job ??

dirk85 2nd May 2020 13:15

Since when is Ryanair a seniority based company?

skyflyer737 2nd May 2020 20:15


Originally Posted by dirk85 (Post 10770503)
Since when is Ryanair a seniority based company?

Since the various seniority agreements were signed with the unions around Europe.

dirk85 2nd May 2020 21:36


Originally Posted by skyflyer737 (Post 10770761)
Since the various seniority agreements were signed with the unions around Europe.

I don't know about the other CLAs but nothing in the Italian contract says anything about redundancies or seniority lists.
Legislation in every country is different when it comes to that.

And for the record, the same in easyJet, there is no published seniority list in any country, and no agreement regulating possible redundancies either.

Douglas Bahada 2nd May 2020 21:50

In easyJet there is a de facto seniority list and is shown by staff number.

dirk85 2nd May 2020 21:58

Sure, having a staff number is the same thing as stipulating a legally binding redundancy policy based on seniority in a company with branches and employees in 6 or 7 different countries with different legislations. Right.

Saulman 3rd May 2020 01:46

Maybe I’m missing something. But isn’t this the airline that essentially saved Boeing in 2001, and tends to grow in crisis. This is certainly unprecedented, it’s worse than 9/11 or 2008 for the industry. The key word is up to and MOL seems to be pushing hard on governments for tax adjustments etc. However, in the wake of this Norwegian based on their proposals won’t be in the market, if Stelios gets his way EasyJet are smaller, and if BA follow through on LGW. LGW as an example is a relatively empty place..MAN has no Flybe base or Thomas Cook within 6 months. I’m not sure any other airline in the world could capitalise on a crisis like Ryanair. There may well certainly be base closures, job cuts and so on. But at the end of this you’re potentially looking at an airline that wreck havoc of what’s left behind after Covid19. Ryanair will need it’s pilots to fill those holes and capitalise within 12 months. I understand the rhetoric is to despise Ryanair on this forum, but I just thought I’d throw out an alternative view.
In another unpopular sentence, MOL has been extremely accurate in everything he has said to press. I sincerely hope he follows through on court action.

Tommy Gavin 3rd May 2020 06:13


Originally Posted by Saulman (Post 10770925)
. I sincerely hope he follows through on court action.

No he will not. He is just using it for propaganda.

Jwscud 3rd May 2020 08:28


Originally Posted by dirk85 (Post 10770828)
Sure, having a staff number is the same thing as stipulating a legally binding redundancy policy based on seniority in a company with branches and employees in 6 or 7 different countries with different legislations. Right.

BA and BALPA have a legally binding agreement on redundancy that BA are threatening to completely ignore. I have little doubt Ryanair would act how they please and take any lumps down the line. They are past masters at expanding and contracting bases due to “costs” while the flying doesn’t actually change.

Smithy175 3rd May 2020 08:56

LIFO, why would Ryanair adopt this considering quite a lot of most recent starters emanated from the cadet scheme where Ryanair covered the cost of the training in exchange for 5k euro and bonding for 5 years

In addition cadets are the lowest paid, wouldn't make economical sense to just let the lowest paid individuals to walk away with a free type rating and hundreds of hours on type

The memo also stated "3000 job losses and/or pay cuts", cannot understand why you would include and/or, is this a provocation from Ryanair to get a reaction from UK or Irish government to give them some form of financial support by cutting airport taxes

Would not be surprised if MOL manages to get another large order in for Max aircraft at lower prices when Boeing are on their knees


Hawker400 3rd May 2020 11:27


Originally Posted by Smithy175 (Post 10771108)
LIFO, why would Ryanair adopt this considering quite a lot of most recent starters emanated from the cadet scheme where Ryanair covered the cost of the training in exchange for 5k euro and bonding for 5 years

In addition cadets are the lowest paid, wouldn't make economical sense to just let the lowest paid individuals to walk away with a free type rating and hundreds of hours on type

The memo also stated "3000 job losses and/or pay cuts", cannot understand why you would include and/or, is this a provocation from Ryanair to get a reaction from UK or Irish government to give them some form of financial support by cutting airport taxes

Would not be surprised if MOL manages to get another large order in for Max aircraft at lower prices when Boeing are on their knees

But they did. Myself and everyone in both Ryanair and sister airlines have been let go (varies at what stage of training you were in but assume anyone that haven't completed the line check) with training fees + bonds completely written off, could be a gesture of goodwill but also saving themselves from the legal hassle of not offering work as there is none available (one of the clauses of the bond agreement).

I completed my base training 10 days before the airline let us go. Walking away with a free type rating doesn't sound so nice when all you have is 1hr in the RHS and 6 touch and goes.

Regarding your last point that's more wishful thinking than I'd be comfortable sharing at the moment.

kpd 5th May 2020 08:16

passenger figures drop 99.6% last month
 
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...ed-997672.html

40,000 flights per month down from 13.5 million!

UAV689 5th May 2020 10:39

Deadline for new boeing deal aparently mid may according to Mol on reuters.

I think the only job cuts maybe from a smaller bases, or perhaps the closure of loss making lauda.

MoL and ryr do very well out of these once in a generation type events. Boeing are on their knees and will no doubt start a buy one get one free on the max!

For the past 2 years every single memo from hq to staff has been threatening job cuts, he has begrudged the payrises crews received in the wake of the mass exodus of staff on 2015-2016, ever since then he has been trying to get the salary bills back down.

I expect minimal losses, but perhaps haircuts and enforced unpaid leave spells. Until there is a cancellation of the 150+ orderbook, I do not envisage many cuts.

Bravo Zulu 5th May 2020 11:13


Originally Posted by UAV689 (Post 10773100)
Deadline for new boeing deal aparently mid may according to Mol on reuters.

I think the only job cuts maybe from a smaller bases, or perhaps the closure of loss making lauda.

MoL and ryr do very well out of these once in a generation type events. Boeing are on their knees and will no doubt start a buy one get one free on the max!

For the past 2 years every single memo from hq to staff has been threatening job cuts, he has begrudged the payrises crews received in the wake of the mass exodus of staff on 2015-2016, ever since then he has been trying to get the salary bills back down.

I expect minimal losses, but perhaps haircuts and enforced unpaid leave spells. Until there is a cancellation of the 150+ orderbook, I do not envisage many cuts.

I agree.. MOL will be plotting world domination timed well for the ramp up in demand.. cheap Boeing's and crew on reduced wages to minimise job losses initially which will be the new norm once the airline expands.

vikingivesterled 5th May 2020 11:41

If Ryanair sticks to the all planes have to be at least 90% full business model it will take a long time before they'll come back. Many potential customers just won't be comfortable with being that close to others for a while. Other airlines will return faster and have a good foothold before Ryanair again can crowd the skies. And they won't be the only ones returning with reduced wages.

Boeing has secured a lot of additional funding for the crisis. Will they see any point in making up the numbers or will they hold out for a better price. Specially since they have nothing airworthy to neither sell nor deliver to them at the moment. Usually these deals if they come to anything are announced as a fait accompli. Theis time it is more like a toe in the water from the Ryanair side. And it is not like Ryanair need to go via the press for Boeing's attention.

dboy 5th May 2020 11:58

However i don’t like Ryanair as a company nor employer, i do think it is a strong brand which is financially very solid. The biggest hurdle they have to overcome is the protectionism raising over the European continent. Eg: when LH is now negotiating with the German State i can perfectly imagine that during these the negotiations, names like Ryanair, easyjet and wizz are spoken out and the fear of their competition and market share, leading to the possible result that LH would be unable to pay the credits back and cutting even more jobs.

And of course, ms Merkel wants to see “her” tax money back so why not protecting the german market??

I foresee much harder rules to enter markets for foreign companies to protect legacy companies.


Smithy175 5th May 2020 15:02

With Virgin pulling out of Gatwick, BA considering this option post pandemic and struggling Norwegian limiting traffic movement until April 2021, is there a possibility that Ryanair could be looking to purchase discounted slots from cash stressed airlines, upping their traffic within southern UK and then closing the 'regional hubs' within that area that the memo referred too?

Wizz Air seem to have expansion in their horizons this summer opening up more routes to Greece, Portugal and the recently announced Dubai route, Ryanair could be considering this as a time to capitalise as well during this difficult period; you don't accumulate 4 billion of cash on your balance sheet with luck and precautionary economics in any industry particularly an industry so volatile as aviation with such low margins.

I would say MOL still has an eye on his 5 year prize...it is more than worth his while to try get capacity back to pre-covid levels in the interim, whilst getting heavily discounted aircraft from Boeing (who else are they currently selling too, they are just taking cancelled or deferred Max orders) Max may not be available for another year, then they could start taking delivery of more aircraft in 2-3 years based on the deals he can strike now, production takes time.. if traffic levels return to pre-covid levels which is suggested by IATA economic reports, he has upped his ASK's, possibly increasing market share and share price and having one up on many players within the market who are currently fire fighting, for now try get European governments to suspend Air duty taxes, take no unnecessary aid from Governments and then they will have no long term obligations to pay in the foreseeable unlike competitors..

kontrolor 5th May 2020 19:00

its about time Ryanair goes under, and post covid world will probably thin the lines of LCC.... Ryanair is symbol of what all is wrong in modern aviation today...

Saulman 5th May 2020 19:16


Originally Posted by vikingivesterled (Post 10773165)
If Ryanair sticks to the all planes have to be at least 90% full business model it will take a long time before they'll come back. Many potential customers just won't be comfortable with being that close to others for a while. Other airlines will return faster and have a good foothold before Ryanair again can crowd the skies. And they won't be the only ones returning with reduced wages. .

Utter nonsense. I suggest you read the shareholder report to see where Ryanair sit in terms of cost per pax in comparison to others. I think it’s the competitors who can’t fly empty airplanes.
The only airline who can possibly grow from this, is Ryanair. £5.99 to Alicante will usually sway people’s opinions after being locked like a rat for months.
Many hate the thought of Ryanair. Yet, somehow I believe in the near future I’m going to have an ex BA/VA for company in the flight deck.

I just don’t see anyone ordering airplanes this year, other than Ryanair.. 2001 springs to mind. With Boeing cutting jobs, orders being cancelled I’m sure there’s a discussion to be had. London Gatwick would beg Ryanair to come back at this rate with a base.

I agree with the previous two posts, I can see Lauda having lay offs, possibly a few smaller base closures. The obvious way to cut the pay, is to remove the productivity bonus.

wisecaptain 5th May 2020 21:11

Cant imagine there will be any requirement for pilot recruitment in RYR for at least a year ,let alone any intake of non-rated pilots from BA or VS in the near future. I would hazzard a guess the new contracts would require money down or bonding for 3 yrs and would probably be paid per hour.Salaries will be a long lost memory?

macdo 5th May 2020 22:33


Originally Posted by Saulman (Post 10773575)
Utter nonsense. I suggest you read the shareholder report to see where Ryanair sit in terms of cost per pax in comparison to others. I think it’s the competitors who can’t fly empty airplanes.
The only airline who can possibly grow from this, is Ryanair. £5.99 to Alicante will usually sway people’s opinions after being locked like a rat for months.
Many hate the thought of Ryanair. Yet, somehow I believe in the near future I’m going to have an ex BA/VA for company in the flight deck.

I just don’t see anyone ordering airplanes this year, other than Ryanair.. 2001 springs to mind. With Boeing cutting jobs, orders being cancelled I’m sure there’s a discussion to be had. London Gatwick would beg Ryanair to come back at this rate with a base.

I agree with the previous two posts, I can see Lauda having lay offs, possibly a few smaller base closures. The obvious way to cut the pay, is to remove the productivity bonus.

Survey tonight on Newsnight suggested that 62% of the UK population feel uncomfortable about using public transportation. If peeps are nervy about a 10 min bus ride extrapolate that out to a 4 hr run to TFS in a sardine can. The only way this will play out is a massive contraction of the industry to 1970's levels and a recovery after a vaccine is developed.


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