Originally Posted by Blackfriar
(Post 10464637)
And being just 30 seconds behind, if there had been a fire, the foam cannon would have started before they arrived. Look at the video today, foam everywhere but on the fire for at least 30 seconds.
As for response time, if fire crews were holding in the taxiway around the middle of the runway, and the aircraft ended up at the end of the runway, they had to travel about 2kms to get to it. Assuming an average speed of 80km/hr, which allows for accelerating and decelerating, the time to the aircraft would be 1 min 30 secs following clearance to enter the runway. If the average speed was 70km/hr, the time taken would be 1:43. And unlike the very controlled video being used for comparison, in an actual fire crews have to slow down to assess the situation and quickly decide on and coordinate a first response strategy under extreme stress. This was probably the fire crew's first real life-threatening passenger aircraft fire, and odds are it will be their last, such is the life of airport fire crews. So perhaps don't presume so much. |
Originally Posted by PAXboy
(Post 10464704)
Changing cabin baggage standards and weights would require all airlines operating the same route to agree. It would require agreements around the world. It will not happen. The Pax want to pay less money and airlines facilitate that for them. Nothing will change - unless you can PROVE that cabin bags in evac cause MUTLIPLE deaths.
Add in that Manufacturers retro fit a central locking system on overheads that locks when landing gear down in flight and only released after that by cabin crew at gate. |
Sorry to add one more comment about baggage. I haven't flown for years now but I remember 30-40 years ago the size standard was enforced, at least at my local airport CYYZ. There was a metal rectangle representing the width and height of the space under the seat and, if your hand baggage couldn't pass through it, you had to check it in to the baggage hold, even directly from the departure gate. Was that not universally enforced at that time?
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Originally Posted by OldnGrounded
(Post 10464853)
They would be entirely misplaced, as well as ineffective. Attempting to criminalize undesirable behavior in a life-threatening emergency is a fool's errand.What's more, any such prosecution would be unlikely in the extreme to result in conviction. Defense counsel and experts in behavioral psychology would eviscerate the prosecution and the chances of convincing jurors to convict would be negligible at best.
They will forget about this event, just like they forgot about children that died due to lack of actions of fire crews (coincidentally, well, not really) when a mall burnt down completely in Kemerovo about a year ago... 60 people died, including 37 children. |
That's one heck of a bounce. How about a go-around, followed very quickly by a change of mind?
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Originally Posted by OldnGrounded
(Post 10464853)
They would be entirely misplaced, as well as ineffective. Attempting to criminalize undesirable behavior in a life-threatening emergency is a fool's errand.What's more, any such prosecution would be unlikely in the extreme to result in conviction. Defense counsel and experts in behavioral psychology would eviscerate the prosecution and the chances of convincing jurors to convict would be negligible at best.
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Originally Posted by dmwalker
(Post 10464870)
Sorry to add one more comment about baggage. I haven't flown for years now but I remember 30-40 years ago the size standard was enforced, at least at my local airport CYYZ. There was a metal rectangle representing the width and height of the space under the seat and, if your hand baggage couldn't pass through it, you had to check it in to the baggage hold, even directly from the departure gate. Was that not universally enforced at that time?
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Originally Posted by Interested Passenger
(Post 10464787)
the only way to make a lot of connecting flights is to use the overhead.
Complete BS. I fly internationally on 4 leg itineraries regularly. It is entirely possible to check baggage and have it make all your flights. |
the approach seems relatively uneventful as far as it can be judged by in-flight recording but I agree that the bounce is pretty severe. Difficult to form an opinion until de FDR data becomes available. |
Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10464902)
the approach seems relatively uneventful as far as it can be judged by in-flight recording but I agree that the bounce is pretty severe. Difficult to form an opinion until de FDR data becomes available. |
Originally Posted by Herod
(Post 10464876)
That's one heck of a bounce. How about a go-around, followed very quickly by a change of mind?
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The British Airtours flight that had a somewhat similar evacuation issue shows some interesting results when survivor seat locations are calculated as shown on the Wiki page for thes flight BA 28M. An analysis afterwards appeared to show that some people were frozen in their seats while some clambered over the backs of seats and pushed their way out.
Some people 8, 9 and 10 rows behind the over wing exits managed to get out OK whereas some people just two rows away did not. It was suggested at the time that some people had a "survival at any cost" reaction.... which just goes to support what you are saying, one never knows how one might react in such a situation |
Originally Posted by Airways B
(Post 10464857)
Pax vid of approach to first bounce.
That was a very hard touchdown indeed! Does the video suggest a botched landing due to being forced to land in an uncomfortable "mode", with the prior issues (lightening strike?) only a secondary contributing factor? |
This video posted by the Guardian appears to show (at least to me) the engines were producing significant thrust as the aircraft traveled down the runway on fire. I wonder if the PF engaged TOGA after the first bounce. The view starts at 0:15.
There's also a brief shot in the video that appears to show part of the left MLG punched through the wing. |
Originally Posted by vanHorck
(Post 10464916)
That was a very hard touchdown indeed!
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Since this thread started, hundreds of thousands of passengers have flown and arrived safely with their cabin bags. There's an old saying that hard cases make bad law. Jumping around demanding changes to baggage configuration on the basis of one accident is not rational in the hard-headed world of commercial aviation. One could equally argue that rear-facing seats would similarly improve survival statistics - that's not going to happen either. As ever, the times of maximum danger for SLF are the journeys to and from the airport. Life's a risky old business.
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I haven’t read the entire thread because of the carry-on (or should I say carrion) warriors. One question: Is the main gear somewhere behind the wreckage or still attached to the plane? |
Originally Posted by Iron Bar
(Post 10464040)
Boeing and Airbus main wheels are designed to detach and not penetrate fuel tanks, if overloaded or stressed beyond limits. Do Sukhoi have similar design?? Ryanair at CIA and BA 777 at LHR both had U/C through wings |
Look at the pictures for signs of the gear through the fuel tanks in the wings
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo
(Post 10464948)
Look at the pictures for signs of the gear through the fuel tanks in the wings
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