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Pax Jet in water at NAS Jacksonville, all OK
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Rwy 08/26 strip is 10,000’ long, 150’ wide Rwy 14/32 strip is 7701’ long, 150’ wide |
Originated at Gitmo. |
Miami Air Charter 737 from NAS Guantanamo in Cuba to NAS Jacksonville 940PM EDT. All aboard survived. Normal redeployment flight. Lots of CBs in area but I have no idea if this was a factor.
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Miami Air. Possible military charter 737-800
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Akali Dal;
That's Jacksonville International/KJAK. They went into Jacksonville NAS/KNIP. A 9003 foot 10/28 with a 1000 overrun before you go into the river, Looks like it had been raining for a while before they arrived. METARs running 2 to 3 miles in heavy rain and thunderstorm around the accident time if the news report time is right. |
How many 738s has Miami Air got? Wikipedia says it could be 4 or 6. I saw two in Nadi on Thursday night which are on charter to FJ.
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Gear still attached? Appears fairly level in the water. Lost the nose I assume plowing through the approach lights, grass obviously didn’t slow them down much! How long did they land (or float) I wonder... |
738 + <10000ft/3000m runway + wet slippery stuff + (possibly) 8-gusting-16 tailwind (290°) = bring your "A" game, or rethink the situation before committing.
Of course, we don't know what actual information crew received on BA or winds. METARs for 3 minutes after accident and 20 minutes before accident (per Aviation Herald): KNIP 040145Z 29008G16KT 3SM +TSRA BR SCT008 BKN015CB OVC032 24/22 A2999 RMK AO2 TSB04 FRQ LTGIC OHD TS OHD MOV E T1 SET P0063 T02440222 KNIP 040122Z 35004KT 5SM +TSRA BR SCT008 BKN018CB OVC030 24/22 A2998 RMK AO2 TSB04 FRQ LTGIC OHD TS OHD MOV E T1 SET P0010 T02440222 |
Passenger Cheryl Bormann told CNN's Don Lemon the plane flew through lightning and thunderstorms on the way to Jacksonville.
"As we went down, we had a really hard landing," the defense attorney said. "And then the plane bounced and screeched and bounced some more. It lifted to the right and then it lifted to the left. And it then it sort of swerved, and then it came to a complete like crash stop." Source: CNN Article "(apparently I can't post links yet) |
You can disregard the gusts as far as approach planning is concerned, but this event demonstrates why a gusty tailwind with a wet runway is a problem. The actual wind on touchdown is also hard to be certain about given the way the computer calculates the wind triangle as has been discussed a few times. Going around into a thunderstorm ahead raises other issues. Not getting into the situation in the first place is the best solution, but easier to say after the event. |
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FR24 showing a late decision to change runway to 10? https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...732ma#2062a337
Perhaps the approach path was better from the west, but they didn't factor in the gusts for a tailwind on final? |
Tailwind, wet runway and not an especially long one at that. Tailwinds are never the best idea unless you have miles of tarmac and decent conditions, so that has to be a questionable plan. This kind of issue has caught out a few in the past though and I wonder what their fuel situ was; did that apply pressure to get in?
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lederhosen Why would you disregard the gusts in approach planning? I certainly don’t! |
Thunderstorm within 3 miles of landing runway or approach corridor means find another option of divert. Why this concept is so ignored eludes me. If you do choose to ignore it you are playing roulette. Do you feel lucky? |
Disregard as a limitation e.g. max tailwind 10 knots or for some 737s 15 knots. |
In my experience, 15 knots is an airfield specific limitation written within part C. 10 knots as a general limitation. Twc, storm soaked runway and TS everywhere scares the bejesus out of me. Easy to say as a bystander however I’m pretty sure i would’ve bugged out |
Sailvi767
Bingo. And just because the aircraft in front of you got in with no issues doesn't mean you will. I don't know about other companies but, mine has some pretty black and white Sops about arrivals and departures with approaching storms. It horrifies me seeing some (big name) carriers who ignore the potential dangers and play Russian Roulette with the lives of 100s of people. Most of the nasty weather from a cell can move through in 15 mins or less. Just wait FFS :ugh: |
When I flew the 737 we had some with 10 knots and some with 15 knots limitation in the OM. In this case the metar winds seem to have been light and variable most of the time with a strong westerly component only as the storm passed through, which was unfortunately just at the time they tried to land. With hindsight a few minutes holding would probably have made all the difference. |
Most of the time when we are allowed a 15 knot limit the runway can’t be wet. |
Originally Posted by MarkerInbound
(Post 10462435)
That's Jacksonville International/KJAK. They went into Jacksonville NAS/KNIP.
And yes, there have been calls to change the NIP identifier for Navy Jax for at least four decades. It is viewed in some quarters as culturally insensitive. Inevitably, the local media are already billing this mishap as the 'Miracle on the |
Perhaps it's time to ground the entire B-737 fleet due to inadequate thrust reversers, inadequate brakes, just barely subsonic approach speeds, inability to fly in rain, inadequate windshield (windscreen) wipers, no turn signals and required fitment of bald tires due to main landing gear not being covered in retracted position. This is just a preliminary listing of the shortcomings of this dangerous air (allegedly) craft. At least that's the word around the Airbus world this morning. I think I heard all of this on the T.V., or maybe saw it on the radio ... or sumthin'.
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Glad that all humans onboard survived but evidently there were pets in the belly compartments and their fate is still not determined.
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Haven't you heard about the new augmented braking system ? It turns out that the brakes on the MAX are a little "grabbier" than the NEO so for certification reasons the MAX gooses the autothrottle a little bit three seconds after initial application of the brake to ensure that the feel is the same. Unfortunately dirt can sometimes get in the speed sensor, so it keeps applying thrust every three seconds until the pilot shuts down the power. Of course, this works whether or not the auto throttle is engaged, but there is a bit of string under the captain's chair that you can pull to engage the parking brake.
(Satire, of course.) |
Are you sure?
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Nothing wrong with string. It works great as an indicator to maintain coordinated flight. :)
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If they were gators, humans were lucky to survive and perhaps that`s why the press are calling it a miracle.
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Not surprising the nose radome got sheared off, but odd that there is no radar equipment inside. Was this plane flying without its weather radar?? Passengers complained of no airconditioning as well.
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At least four pets were checked in the luggage department located in the bottom of the plane that left Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to northern Florida. Each is still on the aircraft and presumed dead, Kaylee LaRocque, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Navy in Jacksonville, confirmed to USA TODAY on Saturday. Although the Boeing 737 plane is not completely submerged in the St. Johns River, the bottom portion, where the pets were positioned, is under water. “There’s water in the cargo hold," LaRocque said. “We are so sad about this situation, that there are animals that unfortunately passed away." |
JamaicaJoe Marine radar is surprisingly flimsy under the radome, it looks like a Radio Shack toy. I don’t know about aviation but it wouldn’t surprise me that forces that can shear off a fiberglass(?) dome would also take out the antenna. |
You would think the recent Southwest Airlines off runway excursion would come to mind when doing an approach into a wet runway with a tailwind and nearby thunderstorms.
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People have been trying approaches like that for years and most the time they make it. Sometimes they don’t and have the off the end result. |
Water pilot
Maybe there is a better picture on line but all that is visible is the firewall or pressure bulkhead and there are no dangling cables or brackets showing, nor is the plane badly damaged at the nose. When you have an airline with just 4 planes it may be hard to justify buying spares. |
Odd question perhaps but do military charters have to follow the same rules regarding crew and equipment as when they fly civilians? |
Basically yes |
They are operating under Part 121. thats probably why the NTSB are there.
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Originally Posted by thcrozier
(Post 10462939)
Nothing wrong with string. It works great as an indicator to maintain coordinated flight. :)
One may then have to live with the arc thus inscribed in the middle of one’s field of vision (despite efforts to “buff it out”) until said aircraft has been sold. |
NTSB photos of the plane and retrieval of the flight data recorder.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....57a834870a.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0d7e41b49f.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....375aa33f1e.jpg |
Where's the EMAS?
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