|
Ethiopian 737 MAX airliner down in Africa
Just seen on SKY an ET aircraft out of Addis to Nairobi has crashed
pob 149 + 8 crew no more as yet - edit ET302 brand new 737-8 MAX reg ET-AVJ crashed a few mins after take off |
Tweet. Boeing 737 Max 8. Few minutes after departure... |
https://www.thenational.ae/world/afr...-says-1.835173 An Ethiopian Airlines 737 flight to Nairobi crashed on Sunday morning, the Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed said, offering his condolences on social media. It is not clear how many people were on board the flight to the Kenyan capital but Mr Abiy offered his "deepest condolences to the families of those that have lost their loved ones on Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 on regular scheduled flight to Nairobi, Kenya this morning". It is not clear which flight Mr Abiy was referring to. NPR reporter Eyder Peralta said an Ethiopian Airlines spokesperson confirmed the crash and the company was set to make a statement....... |
737-max?
Originally Posted by Lew747
(Post 10412050)
Tweet. Boeing 737-8 Max. Few minutes after departure... edit yes it is a new Max 8 et-avj flight ET302 157 tob |
Accident to Ethiopian Airlines flight number ET 302 Ethiopian Airlines regrets to confirm that its flight ET 302/10 March in schedule service from Addis Ababa to Nairobi was involved in an accident today around Bishoftu (Debre Zeit). The aircraft B-737-800MAX with registration number ET- AVJ took off at 08:38 am local time from Addis Ababa, Bole International Airport and lost contact at 08:44am. At this time search and rescue operations are in progress and we have no confirmed information about survivors or any possible causalities. Ethiopian Airlines staff will be sent to the accident scene and will do everything possible to assist the emergency services. It is believed that there were 149 passengers and 8 crew onboard the flight but we are currently confirming the details of the passenger manifest for the flight. Ethiopian Airlines is establishing a passenger information center and telephone number will be available shortly for family or friends of those who may have been on flight ET 302/10 March. Ethiopian Airlines will release further information as soon as it is available. Updated information will also be on Ethiopian Airlines website at |
Another AoA / stall recovery / horizontal stabilizer autotrim problem?
|
Just took a look at Flightradar, it shows a climb to 8000ft, then a slight drop to 7600ft and a climb back to 8600ft where the data ends at a speed of 383kts... |
IF this is the MCAS fault again, then the consequences will be enormous, probably a grounding of the MAX fleet.
|
From the Prime Minsters office sending his condolences to the relatives the accident sounds very bad.
The 737 took off (08.38) from Bole and reached **8600' crashing just east of the city. Radar Contact lost at 08.44 No reports yet of any survivors. 157 tob. edit ** Bole airport is over 7000' ASL |
Crash site seems to be on land, so it should be easier to recover the recorders. Maybe there will be some early information about the cause. The age of the aircraft is interesting. Is there a systematic issue with AoA sensors?
|
Originally Posted by bumpy737
(Post 10412069)
Just took a look at Flightradar, it shows a climb to 8000ft, then a slight drop to 7600ft and a climb back to 8600ft where the data ends at a speed of 383kts... |
It was ET302. re FR24 data, they’ve tweeted that they don’t have the full flight data due to coverage. |
Its previous flight shows touchdown at around 7800ft a quick search shows the elevation of ADB about the same 7726ft. If thats the case it reached about 1000ft before it crashed taking into account the airports elevation ?
|
Bishoftu is near the main Ethiopian Air Force base
Bishoftu is an Air Force town. If one had any time at all to aim for an airport (who knows?) it would be a good choice.
|
Originally Posted by LiamNCL
(Post 10412100)
Its previous flight shows touchdown at around 7800ft a quick search shows the elevation of ADB about the same 7726ft. If thats the case it reached about 1000ft before it crashed taking into account the airports elevation ?
Airport Elevation is 7,656ft, it seems your correct because after take of altitude goes from 0 to 8025ft in one update. |
Originally Posted by log0008
(Post 10412104)
Airport Elevation is 7,656ft, it seems your correct because after take of altitude goes from 0 to 8025ft in one update.
|
Originally Posted by bumpy737
(Post 10412069)
Just took a look at Flightradar, it shows a climb to 8000ft, then a slight drop to 7600ft and a climb back to 8600ft where the data ends at a speed of 383kts... HAAB 100600Z 07010KT 9999 FEW025 18/09 Q1029 TAF HAAB 092130Z 1000/1106 09008KT 9999 SCT028 SCT090 BECMG 1007/1011 12008KT BKN026 |
Crash site is quite a few miles south of the airfield. |
Originally Posted by JEP
(Post 10412123)
FlightRadar altitudes are MSL when planes are in the air. When on the ground it shows 0. A little confusing.
|
Originally Posted by Old King Coal
(Post 10412128)
If that were the case, the moment the aircraft leaves the ground the altitude readout it would jump to the airfield elevation plus a few feet, would it not? (but that isn't what we see here)
|
Calibrated AltitudeCalibrated altitude values reflect the aircraft’s altitude above Mean Sea Level, a constant value used in aviation and other applications. 0 feet/meters above Mean Sea Level does not necessarily reflect an aircraft’s altitude above the ground.https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/t...ar24-glossary/ |
Independent of the cause of the crash, this must be the worst start of any new aircraft or major derivative in modern times in terms of number of deadly crashes and numbers of fatalities divided by cumulative flight hours? It must be worse than the DC-10, and second to the Comet only? Truly an unbelievable bad start for the Max.
|
Takeoff from a high altitude airport with limited performance is a threat, but these guys do this all the time. As for MCAS issues, are there any MAX pilots out there not familiar with this? My guess is we are looking at something else this time. Not good news for the MAX. |
Originally Posted by SteinarN
(Post 10412158)
Independent of the cause of the crash, this must be the worst start of any new aircraft or major derivative in modern times in terms of number of deadly crashes and numbers of fatalities divided by cumulative flight hours? It must be worse than the DC-10, and second to the Comet only? Truly an unbelievable bad start for the Max.
In Chicago there will be 'panic mode'. |
We have no ideas beyond some possibly educated guess-work as to what happened here but I do have a question that can be answered by someone with the relevant experience. As a 10,000 + hr career pilot I'm not exactly a newby but have not any experience with the latest sophisticated systems being introduced on modern aircraft.
Q. Is there something preventing pilots of these aircraft from simply hitting a 'disconnect' button, listening for the 'C' tone and then getting on with flying manually ? Not suggesting that this is relevant to this accident. |
Bishoftu is more like 40 Kms SE of Addis. There is a town named Mojo (Yes, I know!) around 60 Kms SE of Addis. Bishoftu itself has an airport with a 2.5 mile long runway.
|
Per avherald:
"The last transponder data were received from position N9.027 E39.153 about 21nm east of Addis Ababa at FL086. Terrain elevation at that point is 8130 feet MSL, FL086 corrected for QNH indicates the aircraft was flying at 8173 feet MSL at that position." Note that this data is very suspicious to me because corrected for QNH the aircraft hardly reached 500ft AGL at any time on the whole flight. |
In response to SteinarN's post, I initially thought Comet - but that of course was a cycles issue, so didn't manifest until some time later. The Lion Air incident is still being investigated, and this one is far too soon to know anything.
Watching with interest. |
Originally Posted by LookingForAJob
(Post 10412134)
I’m no expert on FR24, but the screenshots quite clearly show the level as ‘GPS altitude’. |
Unless this accident is quickly proven to be the result of a different cause then the recent Lion Air disaster then its likely to result in a grounding of the type until the defect is fixed. If the cause is the MCAS again then a software update isn’t going to be enough, it’s back to the drawing board and no certification authority is going to allow it back into the air until the rectification is conclusively proven to restore safety. Airlines are likely to ground their aircraft anyway before being directed by Boeing or their local CAA. |
Originally Posted by log0008
(Post 10412188)
Per avherald:
"The last transponder data were received from position N9.027 E39.153 about 21nm east of Addis Ababa at FL086. Terrain elevation at that point is 8130 feet MSL, FL086 corrected for QNH indicates the aircraft was flying at 8173 feet MSL at that position." Note that this data is very suspicious to me because corrected for QNH the aircraft hardly reached 500ft AGL at any time on the whole flight. The last transponder data were received from position N9.027 E39.153 about 21nm east of Addis Ababa at FL086. Terrain elevation at that point is 8130 feet MSL, FL086 reported by the Mode-S Altimeter (which always measures to standard pressure 1013 QNH) corrected for QNH indicates the aircraft was flying at 9027 feet MSL at that position. |
|
https://et.usembassy.gov/security-al...-8-march-2019/
Event: The U.S. Embassy is aware of calls for a protest to be held on Sunday, March 10, 2019 at Meskel Square. It is unknown whether the protest has been or will be approved by Ethiopian authorities. Protests have already occurred in many parts of the Oromia region since March 6, and additional protests may materialize.U.S. Embassy personnel are advised to avoid Meskel Square and limit movement around Addis Ababa on Sunday, March 10. U.S. Government travelers have been advised not to arrive or depart Bole International Airport on Sunday, March 10, and U.S. Embassy personnel are also temporarily prohibited from traveling to Oromia.Actions to Take:
U.S. Embassy Addis Ababa, Ethiopia +251-111-306-000 Also: Eyewitness: The blast and fire were so strong https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-africa-47513534Our colleague Jibat Tamirat from BBC Amharic has just spoken with a man, Bekele Gutema, who says he was near the crash site around the town of Bishoftu, which is 60km (37 miles) south-east of the capital.He says: "The blast and the fire were so strong that we couldn’t get near it. Everything is burnt down. The firefighters arrived around 11 and the crash happened around 8. There are four helicopters at the scene now. No one will survive." |
Unlike many african operators, ethiopian has an excellent reputation and a good safety record.
Was an emergency declared ?, my first guess for a problem so early in a flight would be possible fuel issues but until we know more we really have no idea. |
Originally Posted by brentford77
(Post 10412225)
There is an interesting tweet purporting to be from the US State Department circulating on Twitter in which it advises American citizens not to arrive or depart from the airport in Addis Ababa on March 10. |
Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek
(Post 10412230)
Unlike many african operators, ethiopian has an excellent reputation and a good safety record.
Was an emergency declared ?, my first guess for a problem so early in a flight would be possible fuel issues but until we know more we really have no idea. The problem seems to lie in the fact they were unable to convert the forward speed into altitude. (Which may be related to a nose down trim runaway, indeed...) |
Much confusing 'info' so far.
Flight radar seems to show the flight ending 20 odd miles due E of Addis on flat high plateau terrain at 280Kts having apparently barely achieved 500ft agl in all that distance. Airline and media report the accident at Debre Zeit/Bishoftu, miles away in a completely different direction. Wouldn't they know where the accident occurred? |
The RNAV SID calls for 10500' and max speed 215 KT on runway track before turning right.
|
Whilst Ethiopian have a good record they have had a couple when flocks of pigeons were ingested. I am not familiar with this airport but if they are prevalent that could explain the lack of climb
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 23:31. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.