Originally Posted by jugofpropwash
(Post 10437943)
Seems unlikely. I would think that if it was a personnel problem, then Boeing would welcome the distraction from their issues.
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I'd say a systemic flight control issue seems extremely unlikely on the 767 after so many hours of service |
Further, if the NTSB suspected an aircraft problem, they almost certainly would have said something publicly about it by now, Keeping quiet could put other aircraft at risk which is completely contrary to the NTSB's purpose.
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Originally Posted by formulaben
(Post 10437867)
Is it racist if it is true? Do you not see the irony in your statement that diversity hire policies have left many good hires on the outside looking in, e.g. on the street? If there were no hires based on diversity but simply on flight experience and competency, then it would not be an issue. You can blame racism all you want, but the facts are the facts.
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Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 10438084)
Further, if the NTSB suspected an aircraft problem, they almost certainly would have said something publicly about it by now, Keeping quiet could put other aircraft at risk which is completely contrary to the NTSB's purpose.
Since this thread has run the gamut from pilot input issues to structural failure, I just thought I would pose the question. Thanks for your post. |
The F/O previously worked for TWA. As I understand it he left there in 1990.
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Originally Posted by fox niner
(Post 10437757)
You guys apparently know something about the ethnic background of the FO...why is it relevant? Where do you guys get this info? Is the HR dept applying affirmative action? Why doesn’t the ntsb publish something 35+ days after the accident? Is the fbi involved? Is that the reason? If the NTSB doesn‘t get facts and communication perfectly right, they will have the PC media tearing them apart. This is a minefield these days ... |
Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 10438605)
The F/O previously worked for TWA. As I understand it he left there in 1990.
when he was 17 yrs old? |
If the FO was incompetent, then is it possible that he was hired not to meet a racial quota, but because US carriers at the moment are in a desperate shortage.
From what I understand regional airlines are taking pilots with 1500hrs and a pulse or otherwise are parking aircraft. Is Atlas in the same situation? I'm not sure but they don't strike me as being the most highly regarded carrier, and they are in a state of large expansion with the Amazon deal. If they were at the point of an applicant shortage then I don't think they would care what race or gender a pilot was. Maybe they got to the stage where they would take any pilot who met the legal minimums, regardless of competence? |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10439380)
If the FO was incompetent, then is it possible that he was hired not to meet a racial quota, but because US carriers at the moment are in a desperate shortage.
From what I understand regional airlines are taking pilots with 1500hrs and a pulse or otherwise are parking aircraft. Is Atlas in the same situation? I'm not sure but they don't strike me as being the most highly regarded carrier, and they are in a state of large expansion with the Amazon deal. If they were at the point of an applicant shortage then I don't think they would care what race or gender a pilot was. Maybe they got to the stage where they would take any pilot who met the legal minimums, regardless of competence? I know quite some low timers who are excellent airmen/women. |
Originally Posted by ironbutt57
(Post 10439378)
when he was 17 yrs old?
EDIT: The person who had been let go by TWA was the captain of UPS 1354. Sorry for the confusion. |
The FO was reportedly 45, as I previously posted (but my post was silently censored for reasons that are not clear to me)
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where is report for atlas 767?
what has happened to this report ?
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Apparently, something happended that is beyond anyone’s imagination. Right now, the ntsb does not consider the events as having any safety concern. Read about it in this thread. |
Because it’s cargo? |
They’ve got the FDR and CVR so what’s the delay on more info ? |
I'd be willing to bet Atlas has some lobbyist trying to delay the preliminary report as long as possible.
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Me Too
Originally Posted by Intruder
(Post 10444614)
I'd be willing to bet Atlas has some lobbyist trying to delay the preliminary report as long as possible.
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Originally Posted by Intruder
(Post 10444614)
I'd be willing to bet Atlas has some lobbyist trying to delay the preliminary report as long as possible.
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Originally Posted by Intruder
(Post 10444614)
I'd be willing to bet Atlas has some lobbyist trying to delay the preliminary report as long as possible.
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57
(Post 10444708)
my source dried up, refuses to talk about it...NOT an airplane issue is all thats being said
Can the public handle the truth? :sad: |
Originally Posted by Intruder
(Post 10444614)
I'd be willing to bet Atlas has some lobbyist trying to delay the preliminary report as long as possible.
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If the rumors of the first officer are proven false can these people have their accounts deleted?
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Originally Posted by 413X3
(Post 10444772)
If the rumors of the first officer are proven false can these people have their accounts deleted?
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Originally Posted by TowerDog
(Post 10444710)
Sounds like an HR issue. Can the public handle the truth? :sad: Please tell me what it is that we public might not be able to handle! I'm all ears. |
Originally Posted by Organfreak
(Post 10445225)
Pardon me if I am being dense, please! I do not understand. Is this subtext/innuendo about the race of the FO? If so, can somebody plz come out and say it?
Please tell me what it is that we public might not be able to handle! I'm all ears. |
Originally Posted by MATELO
(Post 10445229)
Nothing to do with race. Its a quote from a film - A few good men.
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Originally Posted by wrench1
(Post 10444633)
Doubtful it's a lobbyist. More likely it concerns personal items related to the crew which are covered by Federal law (like CVR recordings) and require certain approvals prior to release.
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Originally Posted by Organfreak
(Post 10445225)
Pardon me if I am being dense, please! I do not understand. Is this subtext/innuendo about the race of the FO? If so, can somebody plz come out and say it?
Please tell me what it is that we public might not be able to handle! I'm all ears. |
Originally Posted by Intruder
(Post 10445402)
I doubt that. They could leave out ANYTHING in the preliminary report, and just publish what is allowed.
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Final word is coming out
Heard this morning from a close source to the investigation, that an uncoordinated reaction to a mistake is going to be the final determination. I have been told that the copilot who was flying, asked the captain to select flaps down. In reaching around/over the pedestal to do so, the captain inadvertently hit G/A sending the auto throttles to max. The aircraft momentarily pitched up and the copilot pushed his yoke full nose down in reaction sending the aircraft into a dive as the engines continued to spool up. The captain grabbed his yoke and without calling that he was taking control yanked back on his yoke in opposition to the copilots force. Apparently enough opposing force caused the shear pin to shear, and the captain lost his input. Electric trim was attempted by the captain and some amount of throttle reduction was enacted, but it was too late the aircraft was far outside it's control envelope at way too low of an altitude to recover. It will be VERY interesting to hear more documented details, not sure when it will be out. So sad, crew coordination and basic flying skills still overshadow technology and knowledge of it.
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Originally Posted by CorpJetJock
(Post 10446209)
In reaching around/over the pedestal to do so, the captain inadvertently hit G/A sending the auto throttles to max.
Oops, sorry, wrong thread! |
Originally Posted by Organfreak
(Post 10446218)
Wait a second-- Didn't I read that the throttles stayed at 94% throughout the event? Doesn't add up.
Oops, sorry, wrong thread! |
Originally Posted by CorpJetJock
(Post 10446209)
Heard this morning from a close source to the investigation, that an uncoordinated reaction to a mistake is going to be the final determination. I have been told that the copilot who was flying, asked the captain to select flaps down. In reaching around/over the pedestal to do so, the captain inadvertently hit G/A sending the auto throttles to max. The aircraft momentarily pitched up and the copilot pushed his yoke full nose down in reaction sending the aircraft into a dive as the engines continued to spool up. The captain grabbed his yoke and without calling that he was taking control yanked back on his yoke in opposition to the copilots force. Apparently enough opposing force caused the shear pin to shear, and the captain lost his input. Electric trim was attempted by the captain and some amount of throttle reduction was enacted, but it was too late the aircraft was far outside it's control envelope at way too low of an altitude to recover. It will be VERY interesting to hear more documented details, not sure when it will be out. So sad, crew coordination and basic flying skills still overshadow technology and knowledge of it.
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Flaps down, 30 miles out?
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Originally Posted by TheEdge
(Post 10446226)
yep wrong Boeing bro...
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Originally Posted by CorpJetJock
(Post 10446209)
Heard this morning from a close source to the investigation, that an uncoordinated reaction to a mistake is going to be the final determination. I have been told that the copilot who was flying, asked the captain to select flaps down. In reaching around/over the pedestal to do so, the captain inadvertently hit G/A sending the auto throttles to max. The aircraft momentarily pitched up and the copilot pushed his yoke full nose down in reaction sending the aircraft into a dive as the engines continued to spool up. The captain grabbed his yoke and without calling that he was taking control yanked back on his yoke in opposition to the copilots force. Apparently enough opposing force caused the shear pin to shear, and the captain lost his input. Electric trim was attempted by the captain and some amount of throttle reduction was enacted, but it was too late the aircraft was far outside it's control envelope at way too low of an altitude to recover. It will be VERY interesting to hear more documented details, not sure when it will be out. So sad, crew coordination and basic flying skills still overshadow technology and knowledge of it.
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Same here, 9K hours 757/767.
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I agree, 12k in corporate another 12 in 737...i can't imagine that overreaction.. If they hit toga, no big deal, just pull the throttles back, pitch up, well lev it..... Unless this fo was a real whacko, but a loud I got it.. Should have fixed it
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Originally Posted by Organfreak
(Post 10446232)
I tried to delete it but was unsuccessful.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f58845d2ce.jpg |
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